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Child Molestors

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(This is my response to someone

who asked about this subject. El)

 

 

There seems to be x-disciples,

of various gurus,

who are conflicted about some sexual practices of these

gurus.

 

I haven't seen where anyone writes about

how to use 'what one sees' in these gurus

to one's advantage...on the path.

 

As adults there is a easy way to deal with this.

In one's own closet.

By oneself.

By using these gurus as a mirror to reflect back

to oneself what grubbly little child molestors

we are.

 

For example, take an honest look at your husband

or wife or various sex partners throughout your

life,

 

and you may be, or may not be, surprised to

discover they were nothing but

big 'retarded little children'.

 

See how you used them, manipulated them,

took advantage of them,

for your own little piggy gratification and/or

purposes.

 

No matter that they may have asked for it.

It doesn't change the fact that you are just

as much a 'child molestor' as this guru was/is

that you may be conflicted about.

 

Some nicer folks may not have

acted out all their lustful little fantasies

or may have just jacked off in a corner

or even prayed in a corner, but

if they are honest w/themselves,

they will see it there.

 

2 cats in the alley in heat on a fence aren't molestors.

 

They don't live from " the inherited mind of man "

that is constantly at war with it's natural animal

instincts.

 

..

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Dear El,

 

I was surprised to read your post. Maybe I am missing something. I

am sure you realize that there is a huge difference between

manipulating adults and child molestation. By the definition of the

word " adult " they're at a biological stage to be able to give

consent.

 

I live in Boston and recently the Boston Catholic church is shaken

with sexual crises. It seems that for years the Archdiocese of

Boston covered up sexual misconduct by priests. The public outrage

is not so much for the fact that celibate priests had sex but they

had sex with children. The children's parents trusted the priests

and they abused this trust.

 

Similarly, the Guru appears as the Beloved to the seeker. This love

gives the Guru tremendous power over his/her followers. Whether

they're the adult followers or their children, with this power Gurus

have responsibilities to their devotees. The Guru's job is to help

the lover (the seeker) to realize that there is no lover, no beloved

(Guru) but only love and his/her true identity is love itself. The

seeker is not giving this power to the Guru in order to be

manipulated sexually. If the Guru abuses this power, sooner or

later, the Guru will discredit himself/herself.

 

Hur

 

 

Nisargadatta, " elizabeth_wells2001 "

<elizabeth_wells2001> wrote:

>

>

> (This is my response to someone

> who asked about this subject. El)

>

>

> There seems to be x-disciples,

> of various gurus,

> who are conflicted about some sexual practices of these

> gurus.

>

> I haven't seen where anyone writes about

> how to use 'what one sees' in these gurus

> to one's advantage...on the path.

>

> As adults there is a easy way to deal with this.

> In one's own closet.

> By oneself.

> By using these gurus as a mirror to reflect back

> to oneself what grubbly little child molestors

> we are.

>

> For example, take an honest look at your husband

> or wife or various sex partners throughout your

> life,

>

> and you may be, or may not be, surprised to

> discover they were nothing but

> big 'retarded little children'.

>

> See how you used them, manipulated them,

> took advantage of them,

> for your own little piggy gratification and/or

> purposes.

>

> No matter that they may have asked for it.

> It doesn't change the fact that you are just

> as much a 'child molestor' as this guru was/is

> that you may be conflicted about.

>

> Some nicer folks may not have

> acted out all their lustful little fantasies

> or may have just jacked off in a corner

> or even prayed in a corner, but

> if they are honest w/themselves,

> they will see it there.

>

> 2 cats in the alley in heat on a fence aren't molestors.

>

> They don't live from " the inherited mind of man "

> that is constantly at war with it's natural animal

> instincts.

>

> .

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Nisargadatta, " hurg " <hurg> wrote:

> Dear El,

>

> I was surprised to read your post. Maybe I am missing

something. I

> am sure you realize that there is a huge difference between

> manipulating adults and child molestation. By the definition of

the

> word " adult " they're at a biological stage to be able to give

> consent.

>

> I live in Boston and recently the Boston Catholic church is

shaken

> with sexual crises. It seems that for years the Archdiocese of

> Boston covered up sexual misconduct by priests. The public

outrage

> is not so much for the fact that celibate priests had sex but they

> had sex with children. The children's parents trusted the

priests

> and they abused this trust.

>

> Similarly, the Guru appears as the Beloved to the seeker. This

love

> gives the Guru tremendous power over his/her followers.

Whether

> they're the adult followers or their children, with this power

Gurus

> have responsibilities to their devotees. The Guru's job is to

help

> the lover (the seeker) to realize that there is no lover, no

beloved

> (Guru) but only love and his/her true identity is love itself. The

> seeker is not giving this power to the Guru in order to be

> manipulated sexually. If the Guru abuses this power, sooner

or

> later, the Guru will discredit himself/herself.

>

> Hur

 

------------------------

 

Hur,

 

I am well aware of the Catholic Problem.

 

Long long ago I had a brother they destroyed.

And a sister.

I was raised by people who only believed

priest and nun lies, seeing them as god's

representatives on earth who could do

no wrong.

 

I refused to go along with " the program " ,

or shut up about it. I was disowned by

my family, threatened by the powers that be,

and washed my hands of the whole schmere

and walked away at 16.

 

 

However, this is not what my post

on Child Molestors is about.

 

By all means, raise hell like I did and

burn the son of a bitches, or daughters

of a bitches.

 

And when you have 'that' out of your

system,

 

 

if you are on the 'path',

and an adult, not a teenager or less,

-----------use 'what one sees' (be it real or

imagined) in these gurus

to one's advantage...on the path----------

 

in short REALLY GROW UP.

 

 

El

..

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Hur,

 

if you are into this " lover and beloved "

and are an adult and really can't

smell shit from shinola,

 

do yourself a favor and avoid live gurus

and buy a book.

 

El

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El,

 

I am not talking about things as they " should be " but as " they are. "

This is not an esoteric advaita debate but how things function in the

social world. It makes no difference whether I believe in the

appearance of the lover (the seeker, worshipper, me) or the Beloved

(God, guru, priests, representatives of God). I am simply pointing

to the fact that when the divine beloved appears as a guru/priest to

the seeker and if the guru manipulates his adult followers into

having sex, this is called abuse of power. The seeker submits out of

spiritual love, not expecting to be made love on the physical level!

 

Up to this point I can see the relative morality of the issue but

there cannot even be debate on the child molestation cases for the

simple fact that children cannot give consent. I was outraged today

when I read that Cardinal Law in Boston shifted the responsibility to

the victims. Basically he said that negligence by the alleged

victims contributed to the case. The cardinal's claim is a

boilerplate moral defense but arguments like this in sensitive child

molestation cases shows poor judgment.

 

Hur

 

Nisargadatta, " elizabeth_wells2001 "

<elizabeth_wells2001> wrote:

>

> Hur,

>

> if you are into this " lover and beloved "

> and are an adult and really can't

> smell shit from shinola,

>

> do yourself a favor and avoid live gurus

> and buy a book.

>

> El

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