Guest guest Posted April 29, 2002 Report Share Posted April 29, 2002 Dear Anand, Before you entangle yourself in advaita concepts, do you know what I are talking about here? I am arguing that sexual abuse by gurus/priests especially towards children is wrong no matter how you look at it. Knowing who you are and outrage are not necesarrily related. It's an immature understanding of advaita that one *must* be calm to understand the truth. You can understand the truth perfectly as you kick the guru's ass out in outrage when you find out he was molesting your children. Hur Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > Dear Hurg, > > What you call " esoteric advaitism " is the truth . > As to " how things functin in the world " is > conceptual and hence bullshit.(Everyone one this group > from Dan to Colin have their takes on life.) > > The purpose of conceptualization must be to simplify: > like the funeral pyre that is used to burn the corpse > but finally itself burns, the mind should be used to > annhilate other concepts, finally burning out in the > Divinefires of realization ( if Divine Will) > > You are not what you stand so firmly for.You will have > to take that on faith ( if grace of the guru wills so) > > So why this vehemence and outrage? > > Namaste, > Anand. > > PS : This again is a concept :-). all we ever " do " > could but be concepts.So take life like the elf, > drunken, mad and spontaneous!Love ya, elf! > > ==================================================== > El, > > I am not talking about things as they " should be " but > as " they are. " > This is not an esoteric advaita debate but how things > function in the > social world. It makes no difference whether I > believe in the > appearance of the lover (the seeker, worshipper, me) > or the Beloved > (God, guru, priests, representatives of God). I am > simply pointing > to the fact that when the divine beloved appears as a > guru/priest to > the seeker and if the guru manipulates his adult > followers into > having sex, this is called abuse of power. The seeker > submits out of > spiritual love, not expecting to be made love on the > physical level! > > Up to this point I can see the relative morality of > the issue but > there cannot even be debate on the child molestation > cases for the > simple fact that children cannot give consent. I was > outraged today > when I read that Cardinal Law in Boston shifted the > responsibility to > the victims. Basically he said that negligence by the > alleged > victims contributed to the case. The cardinal's claim > is a > boilerplate moral defense but arguments like this in > sensitive child > molestation cases shows poor judgment. > > Hur > > ____________________ __ > For live cricket scores download Score Tracker > at: http://in.sports./cricket/tracker.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2002 Report Share Posted April 30, 2002 Dear Hur, I'm extremely sorry if I have not been sensitive to your strong emotions regarding sexual abuse. However, I sincerely hope that you realize what you call good and bad(all values, morals etc including views on sexual abuse) is again a product of your genes/conditioning and essensially conceptual. What Im saying is dissassociate with the person who feels the outrage for you are not he.So your outrage is in substance illusory(being rooted in the living dream). Emotions like compassion arise (for the victims) just as emotions such as anger arise ( in you) and lust does ( in the lecherous priests).You are none of them , just " look " at them, knowing that they are not you. Do you think that fundamnetally those priest are any less pure than you are , with all your gallant and noble ideals? Once again sorry if I have been insensitive to your emotions. Namaste, Anand. ===================================================== Dear Anand, Before you entangle yourself in advaita concepts, do you know what I are talking about here? I am arguing that sexual abuse by gurus/priests especially towards children is wrong no matter how you look at it. Knowing who you are and outrage are not necesarrily related. It's an immature understanding of advaita that one *must* be calm to understand the truth. You can understand the truth perfectly as you kick the guru's ass out in outrage when you find out he was molesting your children. Hur ______________________ For live cricket scores download Score Tracker at: http://in.sports./cricket/tracker.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2002 Report Share Posted April 30, 2002 Dear Anand -- This idea of dissociating from the person is done by the person -- so how can it ever be satisfactorily accomplished? How can that which is real contact something unreal? Where would such contact take place? How can that which is real have something to dissociate from? Where would " this " go to dissociate? Somehere else? From whence would " that from which I dissociate " come, other than myself? Love, Dan > Dear Hur, > > I'm extremely sorry if I have not been sensitive to > your strong emotions regarding sexual abuse. > > However, I sincerely hope that you realize what you > call good and bad(all values, morals etc including > views on sexual abuse) is again a product of your > genes/conditioning and essensially conceptual. > > What Im saying is dissassociate with the person who > feels the outrage for you are not he.So your outrage > is in substance illusory(being rooted in the living > dream). > > Emotions like compassion arise (for the victims) > just as emotions such as anger arise ( in you) and > lust does ( in the lecherous priests).You are none of > them , just " look " at them, knowing that they are not > you. > > Do you think that fundamnetally those priest are > any less pure than you are , with all your gallant and > noble ideals? > > Once again sorry if I have been insensitive to your > emotions. > > Namaste, > Anand. > > > > > > ===================================================== > > Dear Anand, > > Before you entangle yourself in advaita concepts, do > you know what I > are talking about here? I am arguing that sexual > abuse by > gurus/priests especially towards children is wrong no > matter how you > look at it. > > Knowing who you are and outrage are not necesarrily > related. It's an > immature understanding of advaita that one *must* be > calm to > understand the truth. You can understand the truth > perfectly as you > kick the guru's ass out in outrage when you find out > he was molesting > your children. > > Hur > > > > ____________________ __ > For live cricket scores download Score Tracker > at: http://in.sports./cricket/tracker.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2002 Report Share Posted April 30, 2002 Dear Elf -- If things are passing through you, I hope you don't get indigestion from it :-) From whence do they come and to where go, if not from and to that which is observing? Of what substance are they, other than " what is? " -- Dan > I must telled I do agree wiv all that wiseness. I must telled.I do. I do I do I do.. > > You are not your angers.. You just let it pass through and out the door again, just watchin likte a stranger eneterin the house and passin out again.. Anyways I've just seed the white rabbit and I must run fastly > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2002 Report Share Posted April 30, 2002 (Big smiley cloud appearing in sky) :-) > I'm haddin my own drean. I;'m haddin my very own and guess whose inside. YOU > now eat up all ya rhubarb and raspberrie samidges and keeped up all the wiseness so i don't forget myself > mmmm elf pounced on her bicycle and rode up fast through the air to ride all over the bumps on the clouds wiv the white rabbit. > Keeped ya selves nice and fresh.. then.. and whoosh elf was gone pedalin lite mad up the castles of clouds to flatten those bumps once and for all > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 I must telled I do agree wiv all that wiseness. I must telled.I do. I do I do I do.. You are not your angers.. You just let it pass through and out the door again, just watchin likte a stranger eneterin the house and passin out again.. Anyways I've just seed the white rabbit and I must run fastly Dear Hur, I'm extremely sorry if I have not been sensitive toyour strong emotions regarding sexual abuse. However, I sincerely hope that you realize what youcall good and bad(all values, morals etc includingviews on sexual abuse) is again a product of yourgenes/conditioning and essensially conceptual. What Im saying is dissassociate with the person whofeels the outrage for you are not he.So your outrageis in substance illusory(being rooted in the livingdream). Emotions like compassion arise (for the victims)just as emotions such as anger arise ( in you) and lust does ( in the lecherous priests).You are none ofthem , just "look" at them, knowing that they are notyou. Do you think that fundamnetally those priest areany less pure than you are , with all your gallant andnoble ideals? Once again sorry if I have been insensitive to youremotions.Namaste,Anand. =====================================================Dear Anand,Before you entangle yourself in advaita concepts, doyou know what I are talking about here? I am arguing that sexualabuse by gurus/priests especially towards children is wrong nomatter how you look at it. Knowing who you are and outrage are not necesarrilyrelated. It's an immature understanding of advaita that one *must* becalm to understand the truth. You can understand the truthperfectly as you kick the guru's ass out in outrage when you find outhe was molesting your children. Hur______________________For live cricket scores download Score Trackerat: http://in.sports./cricket/tracker.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 I'm haddin my own drean. I;'m haddin my very own and guess whose inside. YOU now eat up all ya rhubarb and raspberrie samidges and keeped up all the wiseness so i don't forget myself mmmm elf pounced on her bicycle and rode up fast through the air to ride all over the bumps on the clouds wiv the white rabbit. Keeped ya selves nice and fresh.. then.. and whoosh elf was gone pedalin lite mad up the castles of clouds to flatten those bumps once and for all I must telled I do agree wiv all that wiseness. I must telled.I do. I do I do I do.. You are not your angers.. You just let it pass through and out the door again, just watchin likte a stranger eneterin the house and passin out again.. Anyways I've just seed the white rabbit and I must run fastly Dear Hur, I'm extremely sorry if I have not been sensitive toyour strong emotions regarding sexual abuse. However, I sincerely hope that you realize what youcall good and bad(all values, morals etc includingviews on sexual abuse) is again a product of yourgenes/conditioning and essensially conceptual. What Im saying is dissassociate with the person whofeels the outrage for you are not he.So your outrageis in substance illusory(being rooted in the livingdream). Emotions like compassion arise (for the victims)just as emotions such as anger arise ( in you) and lust does ( in the lecherous priests).You are none ofthem , just "look" at them, knowing that they are notyou. Do you think that fundamnetally those priest areany less pure than you are , with all your gallant andnoble ideals? Once again sorry if I have been insensitive to youremotions.Namaste,Anand. =====================================================Dear Anand,Before you entangle yourself in advaita concepts, doyou know what I are talking about here? I am arguing that sexualabuse by gurus/priests especially towards children is wrong nomatter how you look at it. Knowing who you are and outrage are not necesarrilyrelated. It's an immature understanding of advaita that one *must* becalm to understand the truth. You can understand the truthperfectly as you kick the guru's ass out in outrage when you find outhe was molesting your children. Hur______________________For live cricket scores download Score Trackerat: http://in.sports./cricket/tracker.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 No I don't get angers at all, not even a cross on me, although i do pretend a cross on.. i telled, hey what are you doon, telled elf crosslie.. but it are just one of ma jokes. Coz i lite them the most, larfs and funs as well.. I lite them. Mmm anyways i don't haved to worry about all the wiseness anyways.. coz maybe i are not even, don't telled my ears they are not wise.. coz then they hang down lite limp banana skins.. mmm now let me had a look on those questions.. let me thinked hard and shtrong.. Hmm mmmm.. elf thinked and thinked and thinked.. Dear Elf --If things are passing through you, I hope you don't get indigestion from it :-)From whence do they come and to where go, if not from and to that which is observing?Of what substance are they, other than "what is?"-- Dan> I must telled I do agree wiv all that wiseness. I must telled.I do. I do I do I do..> > You are not your angers.. You just let it pass through and out the door again, just watchin likte a stranger eneterin the house and passin out again.. Anyways I've just seed the white rabbit and I must run fastly> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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