[SufiMystic] re:Mindless Zen -Osho

May 29, 2002

thank you very clear, i am coming from a course in

miracle background ,in ther it says,if you make one

thing real,then its all real,or value something as

real then its all real,dont like that word

though,nisargadatta says all illusion everything yet i

see the osho people following there desires so are

they giving a reality to there body or if you are in a

relationship are you making that a reality or

career,all that stuff has gone for me but i still kick

about losing them occasionally; how do you guys deal

with relaionships jobs etc without them becoming a

reality for you? --- Moller <rouviere

wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Dear CJ,

Good points you are making here.

& lt; & lt;This kind of Lecture itself can stand some

updating and translation

of its dogma. & gt; & gt;

I also feel much of the traditional wisdom may need

updating and may not even be so wise at all. & nbsp;

Much of it could be seen by the serious student of

life as being plain confusing, and often rather

naive.

& lt; & lt;In some places, couldn't the Mind be

translated as our

inclination to Intellectualize? & gt; & gt;

Mind is only a problem when there is identification

with it. & nbsp; Thinking, intellectualisation and all

mind -stuff seem to me to be perfectly OK as long as

one has developed a kind of non-identification with

its contents. & nbsp; Mind, as is the case with all

other forms of appearance, is there. & nbsp; It cannot

be wished away. & nbsp; It serves a useful and important

function in every-day life. & nbsp; But we somehow

totally identify with the content of thought - and it

is this identification which needs to be

addressed. & nbsp; First find out & nbsp; if this is

possible and how one may go about it. & nbsp; Then the

mind tends to lose its grip on consciousness. & nbsp; It

can ONLY dominate while it is seen and experienced as

real. & nbsp; And it will be seen as real as long as we

identify with all the varied projections of thought -

appearing as reality itself.

So, my sense is that the Mind they talk about, is this

identified aspect of the total process of

mind-stuff.

Love,

Moller

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

</tt>

<tt>

Unsub: SufiMystic-

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ufiMystic/</a>

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<tt>

May 31, 2002

thank you for your honesty i am just i think being

faced with what i have been reading and meditating on

for a while love ariel --- Moller

<rouviere wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Dear Ariel,

You addressed perhaps THE single most difficult

question when you asked:

& lt; & lt; how do you guys deal

with relaionships jobs etc without them becoming a

reality for you? & gt; & gt;

Allow me just to say that I do not have an answer to

your question. & nbsp; Finally this is matter which

everyone has to sort out for h/herself. & nbsp; I can

give you all the traditional answers, but these would

just be concepts added to more concepts.

Your question is real and profound because it brings

all of down to the nitty gritty of how our presumed

'spiritual' paths meet with the reality of everyday

existence. & nbsp; Talk is easy. & nbsp; Walking the talk

is a different thing altogether.

I have tried to answer you. & nbsp; But after having

written a page or two, I realised that the internet is

not the vehicle for such communications. & nbsp; So

kindly pardon me if I do not venture into this

question any further. & nbsp; The path has SO many

aspects to it, and is so individual in nature, that

your question cannot be properly addressed here. & nbsp;

At least not by myself.

So my sincere apologies for not being of any use on

this one.

Love,

Moller.

& nbsp; -

& nbsp; ariel cathcart

& nbsp; SufiMystic

& nbsp; Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:17 AM

& nbsp; Re: [sufiMystic] re:Mindless Zen

-Osho

& nbsp; thank you very clear, i am coming from a course

in

& nbsp; miracle background ,in ther it says,if you make

one

& nbsp; thing real,then its all real,or value something

as

& nbsp; real then its all real,dont like that word

& nbsp; though,nisargadatta says all illusion

everything yet i

& nbsp; see the osho people following there desires so

are

& nbsp; they giving a reality to there body or if you

are in a

& nbsp; relationship are you making that a reality

or

& nbsp; career,all that stuff has gone for me but i

still kick

& nbsp; about losing them occasionally; how do you guys

deal

& nbsp; with relaionships jobs etc without them

becoming a

& nbsp; reality for you? --- Moller

& lt;rouviere & gt;

& nbsp; wrote:

& nbsp; & lt;HR & gt;

& nbsp; & lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

May 31, 2002

Ariel,

Realizing that your apparent doubts and difficulties

too lie in the web of conceptualization might help.

The moment you do not associate with the doubt you

transcend it.That has been my experience.

Namaste,

Anand.

PS : Even this is a concept

--- ariel cathcart <arielcathcart

wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

thank you for your honesty i am just i think being

faced with what i have been reading and meditating

on

for a while love ariel --- Moller

& lt;rouviere & gt; wrote:

& lt;HR & gt;

& lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;

& lt;tt & gt;

Dear Ariel, & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

You addressed perhaps THE single most difficult

question when you asked: & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

& amp;lt; & amp;lt; how do you guys deal & lt;BR & gt;

with relaionships jobs etc without them becoming

a & lt;BR & gt;

reality for you? & amp;gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

Allow me just to say that I do not have an answer

to

your question. & amp;nbsp; Finally this is matter

which

everyone has to sort out for h/herself. & amp;nbsp; I

can

give you all the traditional answers, but these

would

just be concepts added to more concepts. & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

Your question is real and profound because it

brings

all of down to the nitty gritty of how our

presumed

'spiritual' paths meet with the reality of

everyday

existence. & amp;nbsp; Talk is easy. & amp;nbsp; Walking

the talk

is a different thing altogether. & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

I have tried to answer you. & amp;nbsp; But after

having

written a page or two, I realised that the internet

is

not the vehicle for such communications. & amp;nbsp;

So

kindly pardon me if I do not venture into this

question any further. & amp;nbsp; The path has SO

many

aspects to it, and is so individual in nature,

that

your question cannot be properly addressed

here. & amp;nbsp;

At least not by myself. & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

So my sincere apologies for not being of any use

on

this one. & lt;BR & gt;

Love, & lt;BR & gt;

Moller. & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; - & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; ariel cathcart & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; SufiMystic

& lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:17

AM & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; Re: [sufiMystic] re:Mindless

Zen

-Osho & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; thank you very clear, i am coming from a

course

in & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; miracle background ,in ther it says,if you

make

one & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; thing real,then its all real,or value

something

as & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; real then its all real,dont like that

word & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; though,nisargadatta says all illusion

everything yet i & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; see the osho people following there desires

so

are & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; they giving a reality to there body or if

you

are in a & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; relationship are you making that a

reality

or & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; career,all that stuff has gone for me but

i

still kick & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; about losing them occasionally; how do you

guys

deal & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; with relaionships jobs etc without them

becoming a & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; reality for you? --- Moller

& amp;lt;rouviere & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; wrote: & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; & amp;lt;HR & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp;

& amp;lt;html & amp;gt; & amp;lt;body & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

[Non-text portions of this message have been

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& lt;BR & gt;

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