Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 The Tuesday June 18, 2002 edition of the NonDualHighlights is comprised solely of posts from this list. Thanks for being so on-topic yesterday. It was a beautiful exchange. loveya - michael the nondualhighlights can be found at: NDhighlights/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Dear Micheal, Could we know what " on-topic " means? Stuff that is " useful " for spiritual progress? These bullshit exchanges (with absolutely no offense to anyone in the list) that goes on in cause-effect terms ( language is causal ) and that we term erudition ? What has that resulted but in more spiritual conditioning , building up more layers into you, taking you away from what is always yours? Namaste, Anand. --- Michael Read <maread wrote: > The Tuesday June 18, 2002 edition of the > NonDualHighlights is comprised > solely of posts from this list. > > Thanks for being so on-topic yesterday. It was a > beautiful exchange. > > loveya - michael > > the nondualhighlights can be found at: > > NDhighlights/ > > > ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > Dear Micheal, > > Could we know what " on-topic " means? Stuff that is > " useful " for spiritual progress? By on-topic I mean sincere inquiry and honest answers. > > These bullshit exchanges (with absolutely no > offense to anyone in the list) that goes on in > cause-effect terms ( language is causal ) and that we > term erudition ? What has that resulted but in more > spiritual conditioning , building up more layers into > you, taking you away from what is always yours? I agree with this - it is all bullshit - and no offense offered here either. :-) The dialogue that I selected, while it indeed may do nothing more than add layers of conceptualization to someone, may be in fact be that turn of phrase or that umpteenth hearing of a pointer to the non- dual/I AM/immediate which coincides with a given persons awakening. Now, why call it all bullshit? Well, because as long as we hold an intellectual understanding only, we are buying into bs. We are holding onto something that we feel we can accept - that allows us to feel comfortable. In other words, we want to continue to hang onto something - some belief or some concept. But, the Nisargadatta's and the Ramana's, and the Buddha's of this world keep trying to remind us that anything we hold onto - our precious fantasies - is suffering! These folks also constantly remind us that we are already swimming in the peace that we seek. Our very attempts to gain the awakening we seek only serves to continue the suffering - in a personal way. They also inform us that this sense of a personal doer who will someday get it is also illusion. Not a personal " I should feel guilty about not getting it " illusion, no, not at all. Rather this sense of separatness is a natural phenomena. We 'merely' have to see it for what it is - let it go, let it go on and not worry about it. So, enough words for now - eh? loveya - michael > > Namaste, > Anand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > Dear Micheal, > > Could we know what " on-topic " means? Stuff that is > " useful " for spiritual progress? > > These bullshit exchanges (with absolutely no > offense to anyone in the list) that goes on in > cause-effect terms ( language is causal ) and that we > term erudition ? What has that resulted but in more > spiritual conditioning , building up more layers into > you, taking you away from what is always yours? > > Namaste, > Anand. Nothing real has ever been taken away from me, nor could anything ever have moved me away from that. Love, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Michael, Would you agree if I told you that even THAT happens because it happens. The cause-effect is attributed by the master through his mind, post-realization. While the experience of self-realization is unique, the master's description and view of this experience is totally reliant on a pseudo - " lifetime " ( attributed with the misidentification with a mind-bosy apparatus) which is manifested in phenomenality through space-time , just like anyone else. Thus all he can use in benefit of humanity lies within phenomenality itself and hence renders itself bullshit! Which again explains why there as as many takes on spirituality as there are masters, though they all agree that THAT is ONE. Opinions , after all are indeed like assholes. Even masters(Nisargadatta inclusive) have one :-) Love ya too, Anand --- mareadba <maread wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran & lt;anandesw & gt; wrote:<BR> & gt; Dear Micheal,<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Could we know what & quot;on-topic & quot; means? Stuff that is<BR> & gt; & quot;useful & quot; for spiritual progress? <BR> <BR> By on-topic I mean sincere inquiry and honest answers.<BR> <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; These bullshit exchanges (with absolutely no<BR> & gt; offense to anyone in the list) that goes on in<BR> & gt; cause-effect terms ( language is causal ) & nbsp; and that we<BR> & gt; term & nbsp; erudition ? What has that resulted but in more<BR> & gt; spiritual conditioning , building up more layers into<BR> & gt; you, taking you away from what is always yours?<BR> <BR> I agree with this - it is all bullshit - and no offense offered here <BR> either. :-)<BR> <BR> The dialogue that I selected, while it indeed may do nothing more <BR> than add layers of conceptualization to someone, may be in fact be <BR> that turn of phrase or that umpteenth hearing of a pointer to the non-<BR> dual/I AM/immediate which coincides with a given persons awakening.<BR> <BR> Now, why call it all bullshit? Well, because as long as we hold an <BR> intellectual understanding only, we are buying into bs. We are <BR> holding onto something that we feel we can accept - that allows us to <BR> feel comfortable. In other words, we want to continue to hang onto <BR> something - some belief or some concept.<BR> <BR> But, the Nisargadatta's and the Ramana's, and the Buddha's of this <BR> world keep trying to remind us that anything we hold onto - our <BR> precious fantasies - is suffering!<BR> <BR> These folks also constantly remind us that we are already swimming in <BR> the peace that we seek. Our very attempts to gain the awakening we <BR> seek only serves to continue the suffering - in a personal way.<BR> <BR> They also inform us that this sense of a personal doer who will <BR> someday get it is also illusion. Not a personal & quot;I should feel guilty <BR> about not getting it & quot; illusion, no, not at all. Rather this sense of <BR> separatness is a natural phenomena. We 'merely' have to see it for <BR> what it is - let it go, let it go on and not worry about it.<BR> <BR> So, enough words for now - eh?<BR> <BR> loveya - michael<BR> <BR> <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; Namaste,<BR> & gt; Anand. & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR> <BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <tt> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Dear Dan , In case you are self-realized, God bless you! ( or rather you bless yourself :-) ). The matter ends there. However, if not , honesty will force you to accept that what is missing is the mind's experience of THAT. THAT is always experienced by the mind, even though THAT is apart from it. Please take that on faith if you can .It is something I cannot explain. Self-realization is only for the mind. THAT always was / is / will be. Even the answer to " Who am I " arises only in phenomenality, only for a lightning flash of an instant. After that there is nobody to ask a question. There is a mind and there is a body, there is an awareness of the psychosomatic apparatus ( through the mind) but there is no centre ( the sense of ownership ). But what takes place in the mind is the unblemished and naked conviction that the sense of pseudo " you " : the individual was the delusion, the Maya. In it's place there is a feeling of uncontaminated peace. Also there is a feeling of absurdity in the entire framework of causality. All this , however, is to the mind. Namaste, ------ Anand. I would like to re-iterate to Michael and you that the reason is always attributed after the event transpires, by the mind ---- Anand. The experience and the dissolution of the ego is only in phenomenality within the web of space-time. ----- Anand. --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran & lt;anandesw & gt; wrote:<BR> & gt; Dear Micheal,<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Could we know what & quot;on-topic & quot; means? Stuff that is<BR> & gt; & quot;useful & quot; for spiritual progress? <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; These bullshit exchanges (with absolutely no<BR> & gt; offense to anyone in the list) that goes on in<BR> & gt; cause-effect terms ( language is causal ) & nbsp; and that we<BR> & gt; term & nbsp; erudition ? What has that resulted but in more<BR> & gt; spiritual conditioning , building up more layers into<BR> & gt; you, taking you away from what is always yours?<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; Namaste,<BR> & gt; Anand. & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR> <BR> Nothing real has ever been taken away from me,<BR> & nbsp; nor could anything ever have moved<BR> & nbsp; me away from that.<BR> <BR> Love,<BR> Dan<BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <tt> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 I hope that this maya called world doesn't end soon, neither the holy BS at these clubs, -- learn to disriminate ~ thnaks for the input Karta ~ Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > Michael, > > Would you agree if I told you that even THAT happens > because it happens. > > The cause-effect is attributed by the master through > his mind, post-realization. > > While the experience of self-realization is unique, > the master's description and view of this experience > is totally reliant on a pseudo - " lifetime " ( > attributed with the misidentification with a mind-bosy > apparatus) which is manifested in phenomenality > through space-time , just like anyone else. > Thus all he can use in benefit of humanity lies > within phenomenality itself and hence renders itself > bullshit! > > Which again explains why there as as many takes on > spirituality as there are masters, though they all > agree that THAT is ONE. > > Opinions , after all are indeed like assholes. > Even masters(Nisargadatta inclusive) have one :-) > > > Love ya too, > Anand - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Dear Karta, These discussions might appeal and they might make sense , even lead to a new way of life. However, it has nothing to do with the attainment of THAT, which happens if it happens, hence the attribute of " bullshit " to all the reasoning made in causal terms. Any form of discrimination lies within the mind , leading to conditioning , further distancing you from THAT. And , again , bullshit is never holy. That's why it is bullshit . Every master but echoes his " subjective " opinion in phenomenality through causality, though he has experience of the one without a second.Communication is phenomenal , hence the limitation.What he has experienced in the realms of pure noumenon. The maya is not the cessation of the phenomenal world but the realization of the fool's prank that was being played on you by yourself, that of misidentification with a mind-bosy apparatus. ----- Anand. :-), namaste ------ Anand. --- satkartar5 <mi_nok wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> I hope that this maya called world doesn't end soon, neither the holy BS at these clubs, -- learn to disriminate<BR> <BR> & nbsp; ~ thnaks for the input Karta ~<BR> <BR> Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran & lt;anandesw & gt; wrote:<BR> & gt; Michael,<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Would you agree if I told you that even THAT happens<BR> & gt; because it happens.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; The cause-effect is attributed by the master through<BR> & gt; his mind, post-realization.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; While the experience of self-realization is unique,<BR> & gt; the master's description and view of this experience<BR> & gt; is totally reliant on a & nbsp; pseudo - & quot;lifetime & quot; (<BR> & gt; attributed with the misidentification with a mind-bosy<BR> & gt; apparatus) which is manifested in phenomenality<BR> & gt; through space-time , & nbsp; just like anyone else.<BR> & gt; Thus & nbsp; all he can use in benefit of humanity lies<BR> & gt; within phenomenality itself and hence renders itself<BR> & gt; bullshit!<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Which again explains why there as as many takes on<BR> & gt; spirituality as there are masters, though they all<BR> & gt; agree that THAT is ONE.<BR> & gt; & nbsp; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Opinions , after all are indeed like assholes.<BR> & gt; Even masters(Nisargadatta inclusive) have one :-)<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; Love ya too,<BR> & gt; Anand<BR> -<BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <tt> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Dear Anand, The world your mind has constructed is a world where something can be missing or lacking and needs to be made up by mind experiencing something. In fact, it's the other way around. There is no lack, and when no mind is there to want something to experience, truth is self-evident. No need for anyone to bless himself. There's nothing to be done with it or about it. Not only are explanations attributed after the event has occurred, the perception of an event occurring is an explanation. Sugar flavored namastes, Dan > Dear Dan , > > In case you are self-realized, God bless you! ( or > rather you bless yourself :-) ). The matter ends > there. > > However, if not , honesty will force you to accept > that what is missing is the mind's experience of THAT. > > THAT is always experienced by the mind, even though > THAT is apart from it. Please take that on faith if > you can .It is something I cannot explain. > Self-realization is only for the mind. THAT always was > / is / will be. > > Even the answer to " Who am I " arises only in > phenomenality, only for a lightning flash of an > instant. After that there is nobody to ask a > question. There is a mind and there is a body, there > is an awareness of the psychosomatic apparatus ( > through the mind) but there is no centre ( the sense > of ownership ). But what takes place in the mind is > the unblemished and naked conviction that the sense of > pseudo " you " : the individual was the delusion, the > Maya. In it's place there is a feeling of > uncontaminated peace. Also there is a feeling of > absurdity in the entire framework of causality. > > All this , however, is to the mind. > > Namaste, > ------ > Anand. > > I would like to re-iterate to Michael and you that > the reason is always attributed after the event > transpires, by the mind > > ---- > Anand. > > > > The experience and the dissolution of the ego is > only in phenomenality within the web of space-time. > > ----- > Anand. > > > > > > --- dan330033 <dan330033> wrote: > <HR> > <html><body> > > > <tt> > Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran > anandesw wrote:<BR> > & gt; Dear Micheal,<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Could we know what > & quot;on-topic & quot; means? Stuff that is<BR> > & gt; & quot;useful & quot; for spiritual progress? <BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; These bullshit exchanges > (with absolutely no<BR> > & gt; offense to anyone in the list) that goes on > in<BR> > & gt; cause-effect terms ( language is causal ) & nbsp; > and that we<BR> > & gt; term & nbsp; erudition ? What has that resulted but > in more<BR> > & gt; spiritual conditioning , building up more layers > into<BR> > & gt; you, taking you away from what is always > yours?<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; Namaste,<BR> > & gt; Anand. & nbsp; & nbsp; <BR> > <BR> > Nothing real has ever been taken away from me,<BR> > & nbsp; nor could anything ever have moved<BR> > & nbsp; me away from that.<BR> > <BR> > Love,<BR> > Dan<BR> > <BR> > </tt> > > > <br> > <tt> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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