Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Nisargadatta, nyx <sphurna> wrote: > a description of reality presumes that one can take a step out of it.. i really did my best.. but i failed :-) > jeroen hi jeroen, this is similar to what UG says that how can we liberate ourselves from that which that allows us to ask this question (paraphrasing since i cannot remember the exact quote). to me the triumph of advaita and the teachers like ramana and nisargatta is that they are more interested in pointing you to who you are than liberation or analyzing models of reality. hur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Annand wrote: (cut) And who does that thought occur to? Ad infinitum The process of thought does not necessarily go on ad infinitum. In quietude, in silence, what can be seen is a "diminuendo" of thought. It becomes less urgent, less insistant, less significant. Holes appear in the process, there is an increasing space between thoughts. The limitations of thought are revealed in quietude. And no single thought, none whatsoever, has authority. There is not any final thought. Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > > > > --- nyx <sphurna> wrote: > > > hi all, > > a description of reality presumes that one can take > > a step out of it.. > > > No the true perception of reality is in accepting > that there is no way out. > of course not, it's always now :-) > > i really did my best.. but i > > failed :-) > > That realization is your greatest victory! > > Namaste, > Anand. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 I don't understand the term "phenomenality", so i can't comment. Clive - Anand Eswaran Nisargadatta Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:08 AM Re: Which world does the mind create Dear Clive, What do you think? ruby-studded namastes,-----AnandWould not the acceptance/denial of "my" realizatin of"my" true nature be in phenomenality ? Hence is thequestion not ridiculous( though very very natural)?--- Clive Elwell <jevans wrote: > Anandasked:> " Do you realize your true nature : that you> create> a thousand universes and sustain them ?"> > If one may ask, does Anand realise his true nature?> > Clive> ______________________Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Yes, not a bad description of exploration into the self. Perhaps to arrive at nowhere is to get everywhere. Clive Hi Clive, welcome aboard on a boat that goes nowhere and yet everywhere. Hurg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Nisargadatta, " Clive Elwell " <jevans@t...> wrote: > I don't understand the term " phenomenality " , so i can't comment. > Clive > hi clive, phenomenality refers to the belief that there is someone who can understand anything.. when the understanding dawns that there is only now, there is nobody to understand/describe any phenomenon.. jeroen > > > - > Anand Eswaran > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:08 AM > Re: Which world does the mind create > > > > Dear Clive, > > What do you think? > > ruby-studded namastes, > ----- > Anand > > > Would not the acceptance/denial of " my " realizatin of > " my " true nature be in phenomenality ? Hence is the > question not ridiculous( though very very natural)? > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > Anand > asked: > > " Do you realize your true nature : that you > > create > > a thousand universes and sustain them ? " > > > > If one may ask, does Anand realise his true nature? > > > > Clive > > > > ____________________ __ > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! > visit http://in.autos. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 But your sense of quietude is , in your own words, absence of thoughts. Is there a peace that is apart from this " relative " sense of peace? ------ Anand. --- Clive Elwell <jevans wrote: > Annand wrote: > > (cut) And who does that thought occur to? Ad > infinitum > > The process of thought does not necessarily go on > ad infinitum. In quietude, in silence, what can be > seen is a " diminuendo " of thought. It becomes less > urgent, less insistant, less significant. Holes > appear in the process, there is an increasing space > between thoughts. > > The limitations of thought are revealed in quietude. > And no single thought, none whatsoever, has > authority. There is not any final thought. > > Clive > > > > ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 > > of course not, it's (*the way out's*) always now :-) > Please direct me along the " open road " , if there is one. ----- Anand. ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Clive, Anything in your world would have to be in phenomenality because it transpires in the medium of space-time. ----- Anand. PS : Please inquire if there is a state where phenomenality can be " appercieved " leaving behind pure noumenon aware of itself. --- Clive Elwell <jevans wrote: > I don't understand the term " phenomenality " , so i > can't comment. > Clive > > > > - > Anand Eswaran > Nisargadatta > Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:08 AM > Re: Which world does the > mind create > > > > Dear Clive, > > What do you think? > > ruby-studded namastes, > ----- > Anand > > > Would not the acceptance/denial of " my " realizatin > of > " my " true nature be in phenomenality ? Hence is > the > question not ridiculous( though very very > natural)? > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans wrote: > > Anand > asked: > > " Do you realize your true nature : that you > > create > > a thousand universes and sustain them ? " > > > > If one may ask, does Anand realise his true > nature? > > > > Clive > > > > > ______________________ > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos > Classifieds. It's Free!! > visit http://in.autos. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Clive -- Although I enjoy Anand's posts, and cheers to you Anand -- I must inform you that he is sending you down a blind alley. " Noumenon " is just another concept, and has meaning only to the being within phenomenality, which he says doesn't exist. Thoughts about an " apperception " of phenomenality are only appealing if there is assumed to be an entity within phenomenality that could know something, experience something, or come to some new " state " as he calls it. Now, remember he said there is no escape, and yet now he is talking as if there is. All these ideas about space-time and something beyond space-time are as imaginary as any other ideas. They are only relevant to a conceptualizer. If you are clear that the conceptualizer isn't anything other than, or separate from, the conceptualizing and the concept -- then voila! There is nothing to know. Not about phenomena, noumenon, or time and infinity. Unless you want to find work in a Department of Religious Philosophy of course! In which case, you'll find hundreds of books to read on topics such as these, and many, many lectures to give and receive. All for the betterment of a being which can't be shown to have an existence! Just having a good laugh is the best medicine! Laughing for no good reason, Dan > Clive, > > Anything in your world would have to be in > phenomenality because it transpires in the medium of > space-time. > > ----- > Anand. > > PS : Please inquire if there is a state where > phenomenality can be " appercieved " leaving behind pure > noumenon aware of itself. > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > I > don't understand the term " phenomenality " , so i > > can't comment. > > Clive > > > > > > > > - > > Anand Eswaran > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:08 AM > > Re: Which world does the > > mind create > > > > > > > > Dear Clive, > > > > What do you think? > > > > ruby-studded namastes, > > ----- > > Anand > > > > > > Would not the acceptance/denial of " my " realizatin > > of > > " my " true nature be in phenomenality ? Hence is > > the > > question not ridiculous( though very very > > natural)? > > > > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > > > Anand > > asked: > > > " Do you realize your true nature : that you > > > create > > > a thousand universes and sustain them ? " > > > > > > If one may ask, does Anand realise his true > > nature? > > > > > > Clive > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ __ > > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos > > Classifieds. It's Free!! > > visit http://in.autos. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Dan, FYI, I happen to be your friend Shankar's cousin. I'm extremely delighted,even exhilarated at your response below,the nearest to the Truth : laughter. All the stuff that I mail on that group ,as u have stated , is crap!But different responses serve differently-conditioned organisms. Keep laughing all the time, Dan , while you do still remain Dan !That's exactly the right attitude One with you in THAT and myrrh,balsam and frankincense-smeared namastes, ----- Anand. PS : And remember, a helluva sense of humor is a green-channel to enlightenment! --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Clive -- > > Although I enjoy Anand's posts, and cheers to you > Anand -- I must inform you that > he is sending you down a blind alley. > > " Noumenon " is just another concept, and > has meaning only to the being within > phenomenality, which he says doesn't exist. > > Thoughts about an " apperception " of phenomenality > are only appealing if there is assumed > to be an entity within phenomenality that > could know something, experience something, > or come to some new " state " as he calls it. > > Now, remember he said there is no escape, and > yet now he is talking as if there is. > > All these ideas about space-time and something > beyond space-time are as imaginary as any > other ideas. They are only relevant to > a conceptualizer. > > If you are clear that the conceptualizer isn't > anything other than, or separate from, the > conceptualizing and the concept -- then > voila! > > There is nothing to know. > > Not about phenomena, noumenon, or time and infinity. > > Unless you want to find work in a Department of > Religious Philosophy of course! > > In which case, you'll find hundreds of books to read > on topics such as these, and many, many lectures > to give and receive. > > All for the betterment of a being which can't be > shown to have an existence! > > Just having a good laugh is the best medicine! > > Laughing for no good reason, > Dan > > > > > > > Clive, > > > > Anything in your world would have to be in > > phenomenality because it transpires in the medium > of > > space-time. > > > > ----- > > Anand. > > > > PS : Please inquire if there is a state where > > phenomenality can be " appercieved " leaving behind > pure > > noumenon aware of itself. > > > > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > I > > don't understand the term " phenomenality " , so i > > > can't comment. > > > Clive > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Anand Eswaran > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:08 AM > > > Re: Which world does > the > > > mind create > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Clive, > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > ruby-studded namastes, > > > ----- > > > Anand > > > > > > > > > Would not the acceptance/denial of " my " > realizatin > > > of > > > " my " true nature be in phenomenality ? Hence > is > > > the > > > question not ridiculous( though very very > > > natural)? > > > > > > > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > > > > Anand > > > asked: > > > > " Do you realize your true nature : that > you > > > > create > > > > a thousand universes and sustain them ? " > > > > > > > > If one may ask, does Anand realise his true > > > nature? > > > > > > > > Clive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > __ > > > Want to sell your car? advertise on > Autos > > > Classifieds. It's Free!! > > > visit http://in.autos. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Hello all, Im unsubscribing from this group( work's kinda done!). Thanks a lot for 1)the humor 2)the bullshit! Special thanks to Michael,Colin and that freakin elf(where is she?). Sorry for sounding like at the Oscars! Yours in bs one last time,:-) ----- Anand. PS : And to Dan, who I'm sure will keep the bullshit in perspective. --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Clive -- > > Although I enjoy Anand's posts, and cheers to you > Anand -- I must inform you that > he is sending you down a blind alley. > > " Noumenon " is just another concept, and > has meaning only to the being within > phenomenality, which he says doesn't exist. > > Thoughts about an " apperception " of phenomenality > are only appealing if there is assumed > to be an entity within phenomenality that > could know something, experience something, > or come to some new " state " as he calls it. > > Now, remember he said there is no escape, and > yet now he is talking as if there is. > > All these ideas about space-time and something > beyond space-time are as imaginary as any > other ideas. They are only relevant to > a conceptualizer. > > If you are clear that the conceptualizer isn't > anything other than, or separate from, the > conceptualizing and the concept -- then > voila! > > There is nothing to know. > > Not about phenomena, noumenon, or time and infinity. > > Unless you want to find work in a Department of > Religious Philosophy of course! > > In which case, you'll find hundreds of books to read > on topics such as these, and many, many lectures > to give and receive. > > All for the betterment of a being which can't be > shown to have an existence! > > Just having a good laugh is the best medicine! > > Laughing for no good reason, > Dan > > > > > > > Clive, > > > > Anything in your world would have to be in > > phenomenality because it transpires in the medium > of > > space-time. > > > > ----- > > Anand. > > > > PS : Please inquire if there is a state where > > phenomenality can be " appercieved " leaving behind > pure > > noumenon aware of itself. > > > > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > I > > don't understand the term " phenomenality " , so i > > > can't comment. > > > Clive > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Anand Eswaran > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:08 AM > > > Re: Which world does > the > > > mind create > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Clive, > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > ruby-studded namastes, > > > ----- > > > Anand > > > > > > > > > Would not the acceptance/denial of " my " > realizatin > > > of > > > " my " true nature be in phenomenality ? Hence > is > > > the > > > question not ridiculous( though very very > > > natural)? > > > > > > > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > > > > Anand > > > asked: > > > > " Do you realize your true nature : that > you > > > > create > > > > a thousand universes and sustain them ? " > > > > > > > > If one may ask, does Anand realise his true > > > nature? > > > > > > > > Clive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > __ > > > Want to sell your car? advertise on > Autos > > > Classifieds. It's Free!! > > > visit http://in.autos. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > Hello all, > > Im unsubscribing from this group( work's kinda > done!). > > Thanks a lot for > > 1)the humor > 2)the bullshit! > > Special thanks to Michael,Colin and that freakin > elf(where is she?). > > Sorry for sounding like at the Oscars! > > Yours in bs one last time,:-) > ----- > Anand. > > PS : And to Dan, who I'm sure will keep the bullshit > in perspective. > last year you admired grapes. this, you're wandering inside the red wine. last year you gazed at the fire. this year you're a burnt kabob. thirst drove you down to the water where you drank the moon's reflection. now you are a lion staring up, totally lost in love with the thing itself. don't ask questions about truth. look in your face. " mind-drunk with concepts " vs " advaita-ruined-mind " , these two sit helpless in a wrecked wagon. neither knows how to fix it. and the heart, i'd say it was more like a donkey, sunk in a mudhole, struggling and miring deeper. but listen to me: for one moment quit being sad. hear blessings dropping their bs all round you. (contents modified from a rumi poem) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Hi Anand -- > Dan, > > FYI, I happen to be your friend Shankar's cousin. Ah, I'm glad he has a cousin like you. > > I'm extremely delighted,even exhilarated at your > response below,the nearest to the Truth : laughter. Yah! Good stuff! > All the stuff that I mail on that group ,as > u have stated , is crap!But different responses serve > differently-conditioned organisms. Heh, heh. Different strokes for different folks, and different crap for different crappers! Ah, crap, carp, carpe diem -- it shines through all of 'em, all da time ... > Keep laughing all the time, Dan , while you do > still remain Dan !That's exactly the right attitude It is an honor to have your approval, Anand. As you have endorsed me in being me, I will! > > One with you in THAT and myrrh,balsam and > frankincense-smeared namastes, > ----- > Anand. That-spangled namastes, with french-fries and lots of myrrh, Dan > > PS : And remember, a helluva sense of humor is a > green-channel to enlightenment! I was laughing so hard, I nearly forgot this! Thanks for the reminder!! Just in time!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Have a pleasant journey, Anand! May the wind be at your back !! And the bullshit always spangled with multicolored namastes from the heart ... -- Dan > Hello all, > > Im unsubscribing from this group( work's kinda > done!). > > Thanks a lot for > > 1)the humor > 2)the bullshit! > > Special thanks to Michael,Colin and that freakin > elf(where is she?). > > Sorry for sounding like at the Oscars! > > Yours in bs one last time,:-) > ----- > Anand. > > PS : And to Dan, who I'm sure will keep the bullshit > in perspective. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 One glass of this wine washes away a ton of b.s. Grapely, Dan > last year you admired grapes. this, > you're wandering inside the red wine. > > last year you gazed at the fire. > this year you're a burnt kabob. > > thirst drove you down to the water > where you drank the moon's reflection. > > now you are a lion staring up, > totally lost in love with the thing itself. > > don't ask questions about truth. > look in your face. > > " mind-drunk with concepts " vs " advaita-ruined-mind " , these two > sit helpless in a wrecked wagon. > neither knows how to fix it. > > and the heart, i'd say it was more > like a donkey, sunk in a mudhole, > struggling and miring deeper. > > but listen to me: for one moment > quit being sad. hear blessings > dropping their bs all round you. > > (contents modified from a rumi poem) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2002 Report Share Posted July 26, 2002 Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > Hello all, > > Im unsubscribing from this group( work's kinda > done!). > By " work " you conceptualize as/mean " bullshit " > Thanks a lot for > > 1)the humor which was BS > 2)the bullshit! which is life, work, love...so on, so for, right? > > Special thanks to Michael,Colin and that freakin > elf(where is she?). > > Sorry for sounding like at the Oscars! " Sorry " , is that a concept? > > Yours in bs one last time,:-) Whose? > ----- > Anand. > > PS : And to Dan, who I'm sure will keep the bullshit > in perspective. He has a perspective? On what, BS? fare ye well, d_agenda > > --- dan330033 <dan330033> wrote: > Clive -- > > > > Although I enjoy Anand's posts, and cheers to you > > Anand -- I must inform you that > > he is sending you down a blind alley. > > > > " Noumenon " is just another concept, and > > has meaning only to the being within > > phenomenality, which he says doesn't exist. > > > > Thoughts about an " apperception " of phenomenality > > are only appealing if there is assumed > > to be an entity within phenomenality that > > could know something, experience something, > > or come to some new " state " as he calls it. > > > > Now, remember he said there is no escape, and > > yet now he is talking as if there is. > > > > All these ideas about space-time and something > > beyond space-time are as imaginary as any > > other ideas. They are only relevant to > > a conceptualizer. > > > > If you are clear that the conceptualizer isn't > > anything other than, or separate from, the > > conceptualizing and the concept -- then > > voila! > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > Not about phenomena, noumenon, or time and infinity. > > > > Unless you want to find work in a Department of > > Religious Philosophy of course! > > > > In which case, you'll find hundreds of books to read > > on topics such as these, and many, many lectures > > to give and receive. > > > > All for the betterment of a being which can't be > > shown to have an existence! > > > > Just having a good laugh is the best medicine! > > > > Laughing for no good reason, > > Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clive, > > > > > > Anything in your world would have to be in > > > phenomenality because it transpires in the medium > > of > > > space-time. > > > > > > ----- > > > Anand. > > > > > > PS : Please inquire if there is a state where > > > phenomenality can be " appercieved " leaving behind > > pure > > > noumenon aware of itself. > > > > > > > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > I > > > don't understand the term " phenomenality " , so i > > > > can't comment. > > > > Clive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Anand Eswaran > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:08 AM > > > > Re: Which world does > > the > > > > mind create > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Clive, > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > ruby-studded namastes, > > > > ----- > > > > Anand > > > > > > > > > > > > Would not the acceptance/denial of " my " > > realizatin > > > > of > > > > " my " true nature be in phenomenality ? Hence > > is > > > > the > > > > question not ridiculous( though very very > > > > natural)? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Clive Elwell <jevans@t...> wrote: > > > > > Anand > > > > asked: > > > > > " Do you realize your true nature : that > > you > > > > > create > > > > > a thousand universes and sustain them ? " > > > > > > > > > > If one may ask, does Anand realise his true > > > > nature? > > > > > > > > > > Clive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > __ > > > > Want to sell your car? advertise on > > Autos > > > > Classifieds. It's Free!! > > > > visit http://in.autos. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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