Guest guest Posted September 19, 2002 Report Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hello, That was really nice. Now, logic may not be useful in answering but let us try. If the clone lacks self-awareness, it obviously thinks that it is the original professor. the original professor on the otherhand knows that the other is a clone. and the original knows that he himself is original. The clone will not reply, " you tell me " . So we can conclude that it was the original professor speaking and not the clone. With best wishes, Swamy SV At 11:29 18/09/02 -0000, Hur Guler wrote: >Message: 8 > Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:46:14 -0000 > " Hur Guler " <hurg >how can you tell? > >there was once a prof. he taught consciousness at a prestigious >university. he knew everything to know about consciousness. a female >student was very fond of this prof. she took all the classes the prof >offered. it was a mystery how this prof could offer so many classes, >resarch heavily, get published in serious scientific journals and >still had time to write popular books on consciousness, appear in >talk shows and attend elite parties. it was rumored that he only >slept 2 hours a night. > >one day she was in his office. he must have liked this student that >at a moment of weakness or perhaps like most males he needed to >boast, he revealed his secret. he admitted that created a clone of >himself. an exact duplicate. this is how he could engage in so many >extra curricular activities. the clone did the boring stuff, teaching >and research so the prof could enjoy more fun things. the only >difference was the clone lacked self awareness. > >when she recovered from the initial shock, she gathered the courage >to ask him if she was speaking to the real prof or the clone. the >prof said, " you tell me. " > >how can you tell? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2002 Report Share Posted September 19, 2002 When you clone a person it does not mean that the clone won't be self- aware. The clone will be a person just like anybody else. There seem to be some misconceptions about genetic cloning here. The clone will have a personality of his/her own! He/She has to be self-aware, else survival is impossible! Just imagine, if " you " were not aware that you existed, how can " you " survive?? If you denied you existed, but have this stupid notion that " you " are not " you " but somebody else, how CAN you survive? Can someone answer this for me? Nisargadatta, " S.V.SWAMY " <swamy@n...> wrote: > Hello, > > That was really nice. Now, logic may not be useful in answering but let us > try. If the clone lacks self-awareness, it obviously thinks that it is the > original professor. the original professor on the otherhand knows that the > other is a clone. and the original knows that he himself is original. The > clone will not reply, " you tell me " . So we can conclude that it was the > original professor speaking and not the clone. > > With best wishes, > > Swamy SV > > > At 11:29 18/09/02 -0000, Hur Guler wrote: > > >Message: 8 > > Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:46:14 -0000 > > " Hur Guler " <hurg> > >how can you tell? > > > >there was once a prof. he taught consciousness at a prestigious > >university. he knew everything to know about consciousness. a female > >student was very fond of this prof. she took all the classes the prof > >offered. it was a mystery how this prof could offer so many classes, > >resarch heavily, get published in serious scientific journals and > >still had time to write popular books on consciousness, appear in > >talk shows and attend elite parties. it was rumored that he only > >slept 2 hours a night. > > > >one day she was in his office. he must have liked this student that > >at a moment of weakness or perhaps like most males he needed to > >boast, he revealed his secret. he admitted that created a clone of > >himself. an exact duplicate. this is how he could engage in so many > >extra curricular activities. the clone did the boring stuff, teaching > >and research so the prof could enjoy more fun things. the only > >difference was the clone lacked self awareness. > > > >when she recovered from the initial shock, she gathered the courage > >to ask him if she was speaking to the real prof or the clone. the > >prof said, " you tell me. " > > > >how can you tell? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2002 Report Share Posted September 19, 2002 effortless action?MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 swamy, thanks for taking the time to tackle the question. when i thought of this riddle, i didn't have a solution in mind. the intent was to question the disturbing possibility that what if " consciousness " was an illusion or that what if some people lacked self-awareness. for example one of the controversial concepts in eastern spirituality is that there is " no doer " and hence " no free will. " we could have also functioned without self-awareness, like machines. could we be like the cloned prof who knows a lot about consciousness but what if we are not really self-aware? then how could we know? by the way, i do believe that we're self aware. the question that i raised is similar to...what if you were mentally ill. how would you know? the answer is...others would tell you but what if this condition was widespread. yes, i know i have a lot of time in my hands...or mind. hur Nisargadatta, " S.V.SWAMY " <swamy@n...> wrote: > Hello, > > That was really nice. Now, logic may not be useful in answering but let us > try. If the clone lacks self-awareness, it obviously thinks that it is the > original professor. the original professor on the otherhand knows that the > other is a clone. and the original knows that he himself is original. The > clone will not reply, " you tell me " . So we can conclude that it was the > original professor speaking and not the clone. > > With best wishes, > > Swamy SV > > > At 11:29 18/09/02 -0000, Hur Guler wrote: > > >Message: 8 > > Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:46:14 -0000 > > " Hur Guler " <hurg> > >how can you tell? > > > >there was once a prof. he taught consciousness at a prestigious > >university. he knew everything to know about consciousness. a female > >student was very fond of this prof. she took all the classes the prof > >offered. it was a mystery how this prof could offer so many classes, > >resarch heavily, get published in serious scientific journals and > >still had time to write popular books on consciousness, appear in > >talk shows and attend elite parties. it was rumored that he only > >slept 2 hours a night. > > > >one day she was in his office. he must have liked this student that > >at a moment of weakness or perhaps like most males he needed to > >boast, he revealed his secret. he admitted that he created a clone of > >himself. an exact duplicate. this is how he could engage in so many > >extra curricular activities. the clone did the boring stuff, teaching > >and research so the prof could enjoy the fun things. the only > >difference was the clone lacked self awareness. > > > >when she recovered from the initial shock, she gathered the courage > >to ask him if she was speaking to the real prof or the clone. the > >prof said, " you tell me. " > > > >how can you tell? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 mcyberia, the question that i raised is a hypothetical one. it's not a scientific article on cloning. also, i question your statement that " The clone...has to be self-aware, else survival is impossible! " we could have functioned without self-awareness like machines. think about it. before cloning, the popular culture invented zombies. as humans we're not only self-aware but we're also capable of imagining and inventing life forms that lack self-awareness. hur Nisargadatta, " mcyberia " <mcyberia> wrote: > When you clone a person it does not mean that the clone won't be self- > aware. The clone will be a person just like anybody else. There seem > to be some misconceptions about genetic cloning here. > > The clone will have a personality of his/her own! He/She has to be > self-aware, else survival is impossible! > > Just imagine, if " you " were not aware that you existed, how can " you " > survive?? If you denied you existed, but have this stupid notion > that " you " are not " you " but somebody else, how CAN you survive? Can > someone answer this for me? > > > > > > Nisargadatta, " S.V.SWAMY " <swamy@n...> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > That was really nice. Now, logic may not be useful in answering but > let us > > try. If the clone lacks self-awareness, it obviously thinks that it > is the > > original professor. the original professor on the otherhand knows > that the > > other is a clone. and the original knows that he himself is > original. The > > clone will not reply, " you tell me " . So we can conclude that it was > the > > original professor speaking and not the clone. > > > > With best wishes, > > > > Swamy SV > > > > > > At 11:29 18/09/02 -0000, Hur Guler wrote: > > > > >Message: 8 > > > Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:46:14 -0000 > > > " Hur Guler " <hurg> > > >how can you tell? > > > > > >there was once a prof. he taught consciousness at a prestigious > > >university. he knew everything to know about consciousness. a > female > > >student was very fond of this prof. she took all the classes the > prof > > >offered. it was a mystery how this prof could offer so many > classes, > > >resarch heavily, get published in serious scientific journals and > > >still had time to write popular books on consciousness, appear in > > >talk shows and attend elite parties. it was rumored that he only > > >slept 2 hours a night. > > > > > >one day she was in his office. he must have liked this student > that > > >at a moment of weakness or perhaps like most males he needed to > > >boast, he revealed his secret. he admitted that created a clone of > > >himself. an exact duplicate. this is how he could engage in so > many > > >extra curricular activities. the clone did the boring stuff, > teaching > > >and research so the prof could enjoy more fun things. the only > > >difference was the clone lacked self awareness. > > > > > >when she recovered from the initial shock, she gathered the > courage > > >to ask him if she was speaking to the real prof or the clone. the > > >prof said, " you tell me. " > > > > > >how can you tell? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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