Guest guest Posted September 19, 2002 Report Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hello, Namaste. If you (mcyberia) have written what you wrote because of misunderstanding, this may help. If out of an unshakable conviction and with a firm bias, you will not anyway change your mind. Your contention that all spiritual men live parasitically off the labours of others is not correct. What Nisargadatta or other Advaitins are trying to convey is that the 'I' with which we associate ourselves when we do things is not our real 'I'. And speaking from a practical psychological point of view also, or even from the normal 'common sense', many of us do things with expectation of reward. So when we don't get the reward we get disappointed. Or even when we get the reward, the happiness or satisfaction that we get is very transient and very soon, we start trying something else, trying harder for success, for happiness etc. We are thus caught in a vicious trap. We need to know our true selves to get out of that trap. Intropsection, meditation etc., ae but tools to perceive our inner real selves. The spiritual practices actually help us to do day to day things better because they need to be done, but without any expectation or disappointment. The sun shines, the wind blows, the clouds rain, the trees grow, all this happens without any sense of 'I', without any motive, without any expectation for reward. What philosophy, or a better word for that is Vedanta (end of Veda), tries to tells us is that it is very much possible for us to delink our ego from these expectation-disappointment-happiness-expectation-disappointment-? cycles. I have joined this group recently. Frankly I never met Nisargadatta in his life time. I have also not read his book 'I am That', but I am in general familiar with Advaita and so have put forth my views. Not to criticise your views but to present a different perspective. With all best wishes, Swamy S.V Note: In case it may lead to some confusion or misunderstanding, I would like to clarify that I am not a monk or holy man of India. The Swamy in my name is part of a long name given to me by my parents at my birth. I am a scientist and earn my living by working for Government of India. I am of course interested in all philosophies, especailly those that help me to realise my true self so that I can delink my actions from my ego. Thanks. At 10:03 19/09/02 -0000, " mcyberia " wrote: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:03:37 -0000 > " mcyberia " <mcyberia >HI > >Escape From Reality > > >Mr. Nisargadatta maharaj is person who decided reality was not from >him. >He found quiet meditation full of inaction very satisfying. >But since he is not exempt from survival and has to find some means >for the same, he writes a book a gathers a group of followers in the >process. They will keep him well fed and give him his acceptance. If >he was sooo self-content, why does he have to take the trouble to >write a book?? > >The question is, if everyone is meditating and is stuck at " I am " , >who is going to run the world? Who is going to produce the food, the >technology that is used to print copies of " I am that " ? It is this >same technology that is being used to host the discussion group now. > >People like Nisargadatta are just parasitically living off society. > >Boy, science has always had a tough time! These spiritual people are >the ones who can be held responsible for the decadence most of the >world is in right now. Decadence due to ignorance. > >But Ignorance is Bliss, isn't it Mr. Nisargadatta?! > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2002 Report Share Posted September 19, 2002 Quiet contemplation of self might lead to some knowledge about self and might be able to explain some issues, but I think nothing beats hard scientific investigation. Science seeks to put whatever it studies as " cause and effect " . Psychologists/Physiologists/scientists have gained a lot of knowledge about how our brain works and related causes of behavior in the last century. The knowledge created by science is highly objective compared to the subjective and possibly dis-informed nature of unscientific contemplation and introspection. What you are trying to do in contemplation and meditation is try to understand your self. But it cannot always explain all questions that might arise. But usually people have common problems, especially I can say in counties like India that are permeated by religion and superstition. The Indian psyche is a mish-mash of various ideologies, most of which are dissonant with basic human nature, because they have been formed over gross assumptions without scientific or factual basis. eg. altruism. The human is considered something above everything else and people are reluctant to treat a human as nothing but an evolved animal. The Indian self-concept is highly complex and fragile. Its based on emotions and subjectivity rather that reason and objectivity like the west. Thus, since practical problems inevitably surface because of this discordance, because of a lack of understanding of nature (humans being a part of nature), yogis are those who find a release in " delinking " from reality, as reality is considered " bad " rather than trying to resolve the conflict by scientific investigation. And they revel in ignorance and inaction. And the rest is in my previous email. --- " S.V.SWAMY " <swamy wrote: > Hello, > > Namaste. If you (mcyberia) have written what you > wrote because of > misunderstanding, this may help. If out of an > unshakable conviction and > with a firm bias, you will not anyway change your > mind. > > Your contention that all spiritual men live > parasitically off the labours > of others is not correct. What Nisargadatta or other > Advaitins are trying > to convey is that the 'I' with which we associate > ourselves when we do > things is not our real 'I'. And speaking from a > practical psychological > point of view also, or even from the normal 'common > sense', many of us do > things with expectation of reward. So when we don't > get the reward we get > disappointed. Or even when we get the reward, the > happiness or satisfaction > that we get is very transient and very soon, we > start trying something > else, trying harder for success, for happiness etc. > We are thus caught in a > vicious trap. We need to know our true selves to get > out of that trap. > Intropsection, meditation etc., ae but tools to > perceive our inner real > selves. > > The spiritual practices actually help us to do day > to day things better > because they need to be done, but without any > expectation or > disappointment. The sun shines, the wind blows, the > clouds rain, the trees > grow, all this happens without any sense of 'I', > without any motive, > without any expectation for reward. What philosophy, > or a better word for > that is Vedanta (end of Veda), tries to tells us is > that it is very much > possible for us to delink our ego from these > expectation-disappointment-happiness-expectation-disappointment-? > cycles. > > I have joined this group recently. Frankly I never > met Nisargadatta in his > life time. I have also not read his book 'I am > That', but I am in general > familiar with Advaita and so have put forth my > views. Not to criticise your > views but to present a different perspective. > > With all best wishes, > > Swamy S.V > > Note: In case it may lead to some confusion or > misunderstanding, I would > like to clarify that I am not a monk or holy man of > India. The Swamy in my > name is part of a long name given to me by my > parents at my birth. I am a > scientist and earn my living by working for > Government of India. I am of > course interested in all philosophies, especailly > those that help me to > realise my true self so that I can delink my actions > from my ego. Thanks. > > At 10:03 19/09/02 -0000, " mcyberia " wrote: > > Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:03:37 -0000 > > " mcyberia " <mcyberia > >HI > > > >Escape From Reality > > > > > >Mr. Nisargadatta maharaj is person who decided > reality was not from > >him. > >He found quiet meditation full of inaction very > satisfying. > >But since he is not exempt from survival and has to > find some means > >for the same, he writes a book a gathers a group of > followers in the > >process. They will keep him well fed and give him > his acceptance. If > >he was sooo self-content, why does he have to take > the trouble to > >write a book?? > > > >The question is, if everyone is meditating and is > stuck at " I am " , > >who is going to run the world? Who is going to > produce the food, the > >technology that is used to print copies of " I am > that " ? It is this > >same technology that is being used to host the > discussion group now. > > > >People like Nisargadatta are just parasitically > living off society. > > > >Boy, science has always had a tough time! These > spiritual people are > >the ones who can be held responsible for the > decadence most of the > >world is in right now. Decadence due to ignorance. > > > >But Ignorance is Bliss, isn't it Mr. Nisargadatta?! > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ > >______________________ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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