Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 a) I started on swami vivekananda, but soon realized that I would rather spend time counting sheep the rest of my life. b) I half-read vivekananda's biography and have diagnosed him as a psychotic(specifically a schizophreniac). His guru was similar, but was precociously and extremely so, whereas vivekananda was short-circuited forcefully as an adult. c)albert einstein was not what I would term a " spiritual " person. You are dis-informed. d)You are as much Scientist as I am Spiritual Guru. I think you are just another confused character, like the majority of Indians, and who is right now facing a late life identity crisis (woke up too late, and the wrong side of the bed). I have grave doubts about your calibre as a scientist. It is theoretically almost impossible that you have made a contribution to science. You do not understand science, how can you be expected to contribute to it? I am reacting, but don't mean offense, really. The self-concepts prevalent in the east are terribly primitive, a mish-mash of primitive ideologies, corresponding to its lack of understanding of nature. --- " S.V.SWAMY " <swamy wrote: > Namaste, > > A riddle is not supposed to have a solution! It may > at the most provoke our > thinking, which is good. If it is solvable, it is > not a riddle and only > appeared to be a riddle because we couldn't think > keenly enough! > > Consciousness is not an illusion if we are talking > of Universal > consciousness. Limited consciousness (the feeling of > I, you etc.,) is an > illusion. > > Think of a group of islands. They appear different > and separate from each > other. And what is separating them? Water. Suppose > we are able to go to the > sea floor and trace the same. Do we then see any > separation of an island > from another? No. We see a continuous sea floor. > Each island is a > projection of the land through the water. At the > base, it is connected with > all other islands. > > Similarly, our individual consciousness is but a > limted projection of the > Universal consciousness through Maya, Illusion. If > we go deep enough in our > consciousness, we realise that the apparent > separateness is an illusion and > that we all are connected. Karl Jung, the > psychologist contemporary with > Sigmund Freud, called it collective subconscious. > The feeling of separation > is an illusion, but with a definite purpose. > > The story which you presented was good in that it > brought forth this > discussion. Yes, we are self-aware. But the self, > which we are thinking we > are may still be limited. For example if I think I > am a man, I am an > Indian, I am a Scientist, I am intelligent etc., I > am still limiting my > awareness to that I. If we start pondering over that > vital question " Who am > I? " we can certainly progress further. > > About Free will, I will post later, a nice > conversation which Sri Ramana > Maharshi and his visitors had. I don't know whether > that will be of inteest > to other members of this group. So let us have their > reactions or if this > group is moderated, that of the moderator. If > allowed, I will post it here, > else, I will send you separately. > > Best wishes. > > Swamy SV > > > At 10:50 20/09/02 -0000, hur wrote: > > Message: 5 > Fri, 20 Sep 2002 03:57:11 -0000 > " Hur Guler " <hurg > Re: Digest Number 625 > > swamy, thanks for taking the time to tackle the > question. when i > thought of this riddle, i didn't have a solution in > mind. the intent > was to question the disturbing possibility that what > > if " consciousness " was an illusion or that what if > some people lacked > self-awareness. for example one of the > controversial concepts in > eastern spirituality is that there is " no doer " and > hence " no free > will. " we could have also functioned without > self-awareness, like > machines. could we be like the cloned prof who > knows a lot about > consciousness but what if we are not really > self-aware? then how > could we know? > > by the way, i do believe that we're self aware. the > question that i > raised is similar to...what if you were mentally > ill. how would you > know? the answer is...others would tell you but > what if this > condition was widespread. yes, i know i have a lot > of time in my > hands...or mind. > > hur > > Well how does actually know that one is mentally > ill? It is all probably > relative. In the land of the blind, a one-eyed man > may be a king or may be > treated as insane. Think it over! - Swamy > > ---------- > > This is in response to Shri Milind's mail. > > Mr.Milind! > > Namaste! While wishing you all the best in your > chosen career and life, I > would like to point out to you that the very science > which you are praising > and which probably you are following to make a > living/career, requires you > to study a situation or person before you start > making any evaluation! By > studying a few micro situations, you can make > generalisations (deduction > followed by induction, verfied by deduction etc.) in > a uniform universe > limited by certain well defined conditions. > Classical Physics for example > takes that approach. However, in a statistical > universe, while you can make > generalisations, you can't predict the individual's > behaviour. India, as > you are aware is full of holy men and some are good, > many are 'bad' in the > sense they have taken that profession for their > living. Here, only your > individual experience can guide you. No > generalisations. > > By the way I too am a scientist, 54, working in > India for nearly 35 years > in some frontier areas. I am not a 'sadhu or > sanyasi'. > > Mr. Milind, I would like you to read Swamy > Vivekananda's books. He > certainly did not advocate idle spiritualism (the > parasitic life which you > are opposing) but put it beautifully: what west > needs is less materialism > and more spiritualism, what east needs is more > materialism and less idling > in the name of the spiritualism. Not exactly those > words, but the gist of > what I understood. > > We need what we lack. India needs young, energetic, > practical people like > you, who will bring science for the benefit of the > common man. The west > needs the sensitivtiy of the eastern spiritualism. > The same science which > is helping us fight diseases with wonderful > antibiotics is producing > bacterial warfare weaponry, the same science which > gave nuclear power for > electrical energy has given nuclear weapons. the > same science which helped > us control pests in agricultural crops gave chemical > warfare weapons. > > So Mr.Milind, it is not just science which helps a > civilisation to > progress. It is science tempered with spirit which > is needed. Albert > Einstein, arguably one of the best scientists of the > last century was also > acknowledged as a very spiritual person. > > With warm regards and best wishes to you and similar > young men of this > generation, > > Swamy SV > > > > Message: 7 > Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:56:07 -0700 (PDT) > Milind B <mcyberia > Re: Re: HI > > Well, I am sorry, but I did not research > Nisargadatta > specifically. I have no inclination to either. They > are a dime a dozen. But I have made these > conclusions > looking at other such spiritual gurus, and I have > done > === message truncated === News - Today's headlines http://news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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