Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 There is no " one " to be enlightened. If " one " is in the Now then " one " does not exist, only the Now is. If " one " is not in the Now, then there is delusion. So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now. When any " one " dissolves into the Now that " one " dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature. If one dissolves into Now " enlightenment is " . If one precipitates out.... Forget enlightenment as permanent. And " who " needs it? Now is always knocking. -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Absolutely right in that " Who needs enlightenment, anyway " ? The part on " there is no one to get enlightened " is lack of honesty on your part. You dont even know what you're talking about. Namaste, ----- Anand. --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> <BR> & nbsp; There is no & quot;one & quot; to be enlightened.<BR> & nbsp; If & quot;one & quot; is in the Now then & quot;one & quot; does not exist,<BR> & nbsp; only the Now is. If & quot;one & quot; is not in the Now, then<BR> & nbsp; there is delusion. <BR> <BR> & nbsp; So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now.<BR> & nbsp; When any & quot;one & quot; dissolves into the Now that & quot;one & quot;<BR> & nbsp; dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature.<BR> <BR> & nbsp; If one dissolves into Now & quot;enlightenment is & quot;.<BR> & nbsp; If one precipitates out....<BR> <BR> & nbsp; Forget enlightenment as permanent.<BR> & nbsp; And & quot;who & quot; needs it?<BR> & nbsp; Now is always knocking.<BR> <BR> <BR> -Bill<BR> <BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Anand Eswaran [anandesw] > The part on " there is no one to get enlightened " is > lack of honesty on your part. You dont even know what > you're talking about. Care to elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Sure, Bill. Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see yourself as THAT or as Bill? You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But your experience in life tells you that there is very much a Bill- the individual. There is no path to achieve THAT : you can do everything(and not do anything at all) and still it is mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The faster you realize that, the more ridiculous the search will become and hence the happier you are. If THAT happens let it happen( and then I assure you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all the words of all the masters will make sense). If it doesn't , a BIG who cares? Namaste, ---- Anand. --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> Anand Eswaran [anandesw]<BR> & gt; The part on & quot; there is no one to get enlightened & quot; is<BR> & gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont even know what<BR> & gt; you're talking about.<BR> <BR> Care to elaborate?<BR> <BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 You do sell air conditioners! Cool guy. Still, you don't know That. No one knows. Pete --- Anand Eswaran <anandesw wrote: > Sure, Bill. > > Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see > yourself > as THAT or as Bill? > > You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But > your > experience in life tells you that there is very much > a > Bill- the individual. > > There is no path to achieve THAT : you can do > everything(and not do anything at all) and still it > is > mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The faster > you realize that, the more ridiculous the search > will > become and hence the happier you are. > > If THAT happens let it happen( and then I assure > you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all the > words of all the masters will make sense). If it > doesn't , a BIG who cares? > > Namaste, > ---- > Anand. --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > <HR> > <html><body> > > > <tt> > Anand Eswaran > [anandesw]<BR> > & gt; The part on & quot; there is no one to get > enlightened & quot; is<BR> > & gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont even > know > what<BR> > & gt; you're talking about.<BR> > <BR> > Care to elaborate?<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > </tt> > > <br> > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> > <td align=center><font size= " -1 " > color=#003399><b> > Sponsor</b></font></td> > </tr> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> > <td align=center width=470><TABLE WIDTH=300 > HEIGHT=250 > border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td > align=center><font face=arial > size=-2></font><br> > <TR> > <TD> > <a > href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705077\ 076:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs " > target=_top><IMG > SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_01.jpg " > WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD> > <TD> > <a > href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705077\ 076:HM/A=810373/R=1/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs " > target=_top><IMG > SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2d_2_02.gif " > WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD> > </TR></a> > </TABLE></td> > </tr> > <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1 > src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupmai\ l/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=527701562 " ></td></tr> > </table> > > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> > > > <br> > <tt> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 " That " is just a hammer, looking for nails to hit. If the nails move, then " That " is useless. Talking about knowing " That " may be good preparation for a job selling used cars. Love, This'n'that Nisargadatta, pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote: > > > You do sell air conditioners! Cool guy. > Still, you don't know That. No one knows. > > Pete > --- Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > > Sure, Bill. > > > > Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see > > yourself > > as THAT or as Bill? > > > > You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But > > your > > experience in life tells you that there is very much > > a > > Bill- the individual. > > > > There is no path to achieve THAT : you can do > > everything(and not do anything at all) and still it > > is > > mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The faster > > you realize that, the more ridiculous the search > > will > > become and hence the happier you are. > > > > If THAT happens let it happen( and then I assure > > you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all the > > words of all the masters will make sense). If it > > doesn't , a BIG who cares? > > > > Namaste, > > ---- > > Anand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > <HR> > > <html><body> > > > > > > <tt> > > Anand Eswaran > > [anandesw]<BR> > > & gt; The part on & quot; there is no one to get > > enlightened & quot; is<BR> > > & gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont even > > know > > what<BR> > > & gt; you're talking about.<BR> > > <BR> > > Care to elaborate?<BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > </tt> > > > > <br> > > > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> > > > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> > > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> > > <td align=center><font size= " -1 " > > color=#003399><b> > > Sponsor</b></font></td> > > </tr> > > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> > > <td align=center width=470><TABLE WIDTH=300 > > HEIGHT=250 > > border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td > > align=center><font face=arial > > size=-2></font><br> > > <TR> > > <TD> > > <a > > > href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb /S=1705077076:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.ref er=blrecs " > > target=_top><IMG > > > SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_0 1.jpg " > > WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD> > > <TD> > > <a > > > href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb /S=1705077076:HM/A=810373/R=1/*http://geocities./ps/info?.ref er=blrecs " > > target=_top><IMG > > > SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2d_2_0 2.gif " > > WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD> > > </TR></a> > > </TABLE></td> > > </tr> > > <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1 > > > src= " http://us.adserver./l? M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=5277 01562 " ></td></tr> > > </table> > > > > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> > > > > > > <br> > > <tt> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Anand Eswaran [anandesw] > Sure, Bill. > Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see yourself > as THAT or as Bill? Must there be a " seeing myself as something " ? You beg the question. And what what do you mean by " THAT " ? I can have no idea what you mean. I use the term Now because there is at least some hope of understanding each other. When all thoughts, sensations, etc. are viewed as *simply arising* in this moment and all sense of continuity is abandoned the sense of an observer/doer can disappear. If there is no sense of " oneself " then there is Now. > You say " there is none to be enlightened " . But your > experience in life tells you that there is very much a > Bill- the individual. Now is the Garden of Eden. Falling from Grace is to experience self as Bill or whoever. Falling into Grace is dissolution of Bill or whoever and the simple appearance of Now. Even in the Living Now where doership dies, things get " done " . Poems get written, for example. Emails get sent, are read etc. In a way nothing changes, except that from the Living Now " concern about what it all means " is gone, concern about direction is gone. Actions simply arise. The *appearance* is of a person but the *experience* is of a vital living Presence that encompasses every sparkling vibration of the moment. It is dying to Now. It is as if one were possessed so that one's former self were gone, and the inhabiting spirit is Now, Presence. Peace and Grace, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 As always, your ego has the last word :-) ----- Anand. --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> <BR> <BR> You do sell air conditioners! Cool guy. <BR> Still, you don't know That. No one knows.<BR> <BR> Pete<BR> --- Anand Eswaran & lt;anandesw & gt; wrote:<BR> & gt; Sure, Bill.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Be absoluely honest to yourself. Do you see<BR> & gt; yourself<BR> & gt; as THAT or as Bill?<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; You say & quot; there is none to be enlightened & quot;. But<BR> & gt; your<BR> & gt; experience in life tells you that there is very much<BR> & gt; a<BR> & gt; Bill- the individual.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is no path to achieve THAT : you can do<BR> & gt; everything(and not do anything at all) and still it<BR> & gt; is<BR> & gt; mutually exclusive of the doing/non-doing.The faster<BR> & gt; you realize that, the more ridiculous the search<BR> & gt; will<BR> & gt; become and hence the happier you are.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If THAT happens let it happen( and then I assure<BR> & gt; you, you will not see yourself as Bill and all the<BR> & gt; words of all the masters will make sense). If it<BR> & gt; doesn't , a & nbsp; BIG who cares?<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; Namaste,<BR> & gt; ----<BR> & gt; Anand.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; --- Bill Rishel & lt;plexus & gt; wrote: <BR> & gt; & lt;HR & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & lt;tt & gt;<BR> & gt; Anand Eswaran<BR> & gt; [anandesw] & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; & amp;gt; The part on & amp;quot; there is no one to get<BR> & gt; enlightened & amp;quot; is & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; & amp;gt; lack of honesty on your part. You dont even<BR> & gt; know<BR> & gt; what & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; & amp;gt; you're talking about. & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; Care to elaborate? & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;/tt & gt;<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & lt;br & gt;<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- & gt;<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & lt;table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;td align=center & gt; & lt;font size= & quot;-1 & quot;<BR> & gt; color=#003399 & gt; & lt;b & gt;<BR> & gt; Sponsor & lt;/b & gt; & lt;/font & gt; & lt;/td & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;/tr & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;td align=center width=470 & gt; & lt;TABLE WIDTH=300<BR> & gt; HEIGHT=250<BR> & gt; border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 & gt; & lt;tr & gt; & lt;td<BR> & gt; align=center & gt; & lt;font face=arial<BR> & gt; size=-2 & gt; & lt;/font & gt; & lt;br & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;TR & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;TD & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;a<BR> & gt;<BR> href= & quot;<a href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705077\ 076:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs " >http://rd\ ../M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705077076:HM/A=810373\ /R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs</a> & quot;<BR> & gt; target=_top & gt; & lt;IMG<BR> & gt;<BR> SRC= & quot;<a href= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_01.jpg " >ht\ tp://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_01.jpg</a> & quot;<B\ R> & gt; WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0 & gt; & lt;/a & gt; & lt;/TR & gt; & lt;/TD & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;TD & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;a<BR> & gt;<BR> href= & quot;<a href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705077\ 076:HM/A=810373/R=1/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs " >http://rd\ ../M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705077076:HM/A=810373\ /R=1/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs</a> & quot;<BR> & gt; target=_top & gt; & lt;IMG<BR> & gt;<BR> SRC= & quot;<a href= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2d_2_02.gif " >ht\ tp://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2d_2_02.gif</a> & quot;<B\ R> & gt; WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0 & gt; & lt;/TD & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;/TR & gt; & lt;/a & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;/TABLE & gt; & lt;/td & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;/tr & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;tr & gt; & lt;td & gt; & lt;img alt= & quot; & quot; width=1 height=1<BR> & gt;<BR> src= & quot;<a href= " http://us.adserver./l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupma\ il/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=527701562 " >http://us.adserver./l?M=212804.246094\ 1.3878106.2225242/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=527701562</a> & quot; & gt; & lt;/t\ d & gt; & lt;/tr & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;/table & gt;<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & lt;!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -- & gt;<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & lt;br & gt;<BR> & gt; & lt;tt & gt;<BR> & gt; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That? Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of nothing) Pete ----- --- Anand Eswaran <anandesw wrote: > As always, your ego has the last word :-) Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Nisargadatta, pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote: Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That? Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of nothing) Pete KKT: But of an << egg of nothing >> hatched out a small chicken (ie. the thought I AM :-)) A koan: What is << before >> Egg-0 ? Cheers :-) KKT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Sure, if you say so. ----- Anand. --- phamdluan2000 <phamdluan wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> <BR> Nisargadatta, pete seesaw & lt;seesaw1us & gt; wrote:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That?<BR> Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of<BR> nothing) <BR> <BR> Pete<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> KKT: But of an & lt; & lt; egg of nothing & gt; & gt;<BR> hatched out a small chicken (ie. the thought I AM :-))<BR> <BR> A koan: What is & lt; & lt; before & gt; & gt; Egg-0 ?<BR> <BR> <BR> Cheers :-)<BR> <BR> <BR> KKT<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Are you following me? ) Pete --- phamdluan2000 <phamdluan wrote: > > Nisargadatta, pete seesaw > <seesaw1us> wrote: > > > > Wasn't yours the one who implied to know That? > Did it get hurt? Poor little Egg-0 ( or egg of > nothing) > > Pete > > > > > > KKT: But of an << egg of nothing >> > hatched out a small chicken (ie. the thought I AM > :-)) > > A koan: What is << before >> Egg-0 ? > > > Cheers :-) > > > KKT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot are two things: 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together that sound impressive but don't add up to anything. This is because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle, paradox or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these. 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a mood of nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or some other vague nondescript condition. I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there is more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever. I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this discussion -- " I AM THAT ... " , however I believe the problem is in the book. While it is true that there are no obstacles to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves, Nisargatta appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of what to 'do' today. Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do it. Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the ticket. So now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, cleverness, making a mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or achieves 'enlightenment'. You may say " enlightenment is not an achievement " or " one does not have to do anything to be enlightened " or similiar sentiments - - Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the horse. Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > > There is no " one " to be enlightened. > If " one " is in the Now then " one " does not exist, > only the Now is. If " one " is not in the Now, then > there is delusion. > > So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now. > When any " one " dissolves into the Now that " one " > dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature. > > If one dissolves into Now " enlightenment is " . > If one precipitates out.... > > Forget enlightenment as permanent. > And " who " needs it? > Now is always knocking. > > > -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 - trem23 Nisargadatta Monday, October 14, 2002 5:14 PM Re: On "being enlightened" I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot are two things:1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together that sound impressive but don't add up to anything. This is because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle, paradox or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these.2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a mood of nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or some other vague nondescript condition.I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there is more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever.I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this discussion -- "I AM THAT ...", however I believe the problem is in the book. While it is true that there are no obstacles to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves, Nisargatta appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of what to 'do' today.Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do it. Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the ticket. So now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, cleverness, making a mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or achieves 'enlightenment'.You may say "enlightenment is not an achievement" or "one does not have to do anything to be enlightened" or similiar sentiments - - Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the horse. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I think you have ridden your trem to the wrong station... I think you belong on the Instant Idiotic Criticism List... Amazing what people can learn by not reading books.. but it's very good of you to admit that you haven't read Nisargadatta before dismissing him totally and knowing that he missed. By the way, what were the cart and the horse again? Ding dong ding went the trolley... Nisargadatta, "Bill Rishel" <plexus@x> wrote:> > There is no "one" to be enlightened.> If "one" is in the Now then "one" does not exist,> only the Now is. If "one" is not in the Now, then> there is delusion. > > So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now.> When any "one" dissolves into the Now that "one"> dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature.> > If one dissolves into Now "enlightenment is".> If one precipitates out....> > Forget enlightenment as permanent.> And "who" needs it?> Now is always knocking.> > > -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 This man is dangerous because he has seen through us all. :-) He is close to THAT simply because he bases statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on his experience : his Truth. Namaste, ----- Anand. --- trem23 <inmadison wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot <BR> are two things:<BR> 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together that <BR> sound impressive but don't add up to anything. & nbsp; & nbsp; This is <BR> because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle, paradox <BR> or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these.<BR> 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a mood of <BR> nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or some <BR> other vague nondescript condition.<BR> <BR> I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there is <BR> more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever.<BR> <BR> I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this <BR> discussion -- & quot;I AM THAT ... & quot;, however I believe the problem is in <BR> the book. & nbsp; While it is true that there are no obstacles <BR> to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves, Nisargatta <BR> appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who <BR> sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of what <BR> to 'do' today.<BR> <BR> Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do it. & nbsp; <BR> Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the ticket. & nbsp; So <BR> now everyone is eating carrots. & nbsp; Eating carrots, cleverness, making a <BR> mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or <BR> achieves 'enlightenment'.<BR> <BR> You may say & quot;enlightenment is not an achievement & quot; or & quot;one does not <BR> have to do anything to be enlightened & quot; or similiar sentiments - - <BR> Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is <BR> achieved. & nbsp; & nbsp; And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the <BR> horse. <BR> <BR> Nisargadatta, & quot;Bill Rishel & quot; & lt;plexus@x & gt; wrote:<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is no & quot;one & quot; to be enlightened.<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If & quot;one & quot; is in the Now then & quot;one & quot; does not exist,<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; only the Now is. If & quot;one & quot; is not in the Now, then<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; there is delusion. <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; So there is only one Buddha, and that is the Now.<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; When any & quot;one & quot; dissolves into the Now that & quot;one & quot;<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; dissolves into the single universal buddha-nature.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one dissolves into Now & quot;enlightenment is & quot;.<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one precipitates out....<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Forget enlightenment as permanent.<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; And & quot;who & quot; needs it?<BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Now is always knocking.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; -Bill<BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > This man is dangerous because he has seen through > us all. :-) > > He is close to THAT simply because he bases > statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on > his experience : his Truth. variations of nonduality: 1. the positive way: i am the Truth i am the Self i am the Consciousness 2. the negative way: there is no such thing as the Self hence no Universal Self the Brahman therefore no universal Truth exists. Some of the variations of interpretating 1 and 2 a. unfolding my own Truth must be more True than someone else's experience b. interpreting my experience is unfolding my own myth and hence it's not more True or mythical than unfolding someone else's myth. c. shhh...silence, we're meditating on consciousness/nothing now. hur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Nisargadatta, " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote: > I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot > are two things: > 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together that > sound impressive but don't add up to anything. did you ever read ramana maharshi? particularly the book called " be as you are " the teachings of ramana maharshi, edited by david godman? frankly speaking if i had not met a friend who was patient with me and gave me plenty of books on nonduality and particularly the " be as you are " by ramana maharshi, i would have been very confused about all this " mumbo jumbo. " i'm not saying ramana is only for the elementary level but he's for all levels. it's just that to understand nisargadatta one must go through the loop a few times and that's where ramana comes in, to help us break through the loop. hur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do you came to the conclusion he speaks from his own experience on the basis of one short, negative message? Could the reason be that you are piss at us because we don't show proper amazement at your wisdom? You two have something in common: You both jump to conclusions without investigating and look like fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh. Pete > This man is dangerous because he has seen through > us all. :-) > > He is close to THAT simply because he bases > statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on > his experience : his Truth. > > Namaste, > ----- > Anand. > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 The Great Oz will once more speak . . . The 'cart' is enlightenment, the 'horse' is getting there. Many great souls have stumbled upon enlightenment, but have no clue how they got there. As a result, the path to enlightenment is bespecled with all sorts of wierd practices and lifestyles. I am proposing that Nisgardatta is one such well-intentioned fellow; or perhaps he has no intentions at all - he simply wrote from his resolute mind and full heart. Reading the exerps (which I had done long ago) it appears to me he is speaking from enlightenment (or at least faking it pretty well), but that does not qualify him as someone to follow. But then, perhaps he doesn't wish to be followed, in which case, that leads right to what I am saying. One does not become a rich man by wearing the clothes of a rich man! That would be putting the cart before the horse. God, I love metaphores and I love me, the Great Oz has spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad to be reason for you to laugh. Laughing insanely, ---- Anand. --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do you<BR> came to the conclusion he speaks from his own<BR> experience on the basis of one short, negative<BR> message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are piss at us<BR> because we don't show proper amazement at your wisdom?<BR> <BR> <BR> You two have something in common: You both jump<BR> to conclusions without investigating and look like<BR> fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.<BR> <BR> Pete<BR> <BR> <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because he has seen through<BR> & gt; us all. :-)<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because he bases<BR> & gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on<BR> & gt; his experience : his Truth.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; Namaste,<BR> & gt; -----<BR> & gt; Anand.<BR> & gt; <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp; More<BR> <a href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a><BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 No one knows about anyone else's ego. All talk about ego is inherently talk about one's own ego. -Bill Anand Eswaran [anandesw] Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:27 AM Nisargadatta Re: Re: On " being enlightened " You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad to be reason for you to laugh. Laughing insanely, ---- Anand. --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do you<BR> came to the conclusion he speaks from his own<BR> experience on the basis of one short, negative<BR> message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are piss at us<BR> because we don't show proper amazement at your wisdom?<BR> <BR> <BR> You two have something in common: You both jump<BR> to conclusions without investigating and look like<BR> fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.<BR> <BR> Pete<BR> <BR> <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because he has seen through<BR> & gt; us all. :-)<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because he bases<BR> & gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on<BR> & gt; his experience : his Truth.<BR> & gt; <BR> & gt; Namaste,<BR> & gt; -----<BR> & gt; Anand.<BR> & gt; <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp; More<BR> <a href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a><BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Hi, For a moment drop the " fact " that " I Am That " is a book and consider that it is the instrument in which Nisargadatta channelled " knowledge " . Some refer to that " knowledge " as " on enlightenment " . Reading the book is an event, a veritable meditation in I- consciousness. Hence, you may begin to understand why some will give your writing short shift when you admit that you have not even READ THE BOOK. On reading that, why would one wish to decipher what you interpret of Nisargadatta's ideas? Just my opinion, of course, but Having Not Read the Book and yet attempting to make a substantive comment on Nisargadatta is , to quote you, " putting the cart before the horse " cornelius Nisargadatta, " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote: > I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see alot > are two things: > 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together that > sound impressive but don't add up to anything. This is > because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle, paradox > or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these. > 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a mood of > nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or some > other vague nondescript condition. > > I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there is > more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever. > > I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this > discussion -- " I AM THAT ... " , however I believe the problem is in > the book. While it is true that there are no obstacles > to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves, Nisargatta > appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who > sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of what > to 'do' today. > > Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do it. > Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the ticket. So > now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, cleverness, making a > mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or > achieves 'enlightenment'. > > You may say " enlightenment is not an achievement " or " one does not > have to do anything to be enlightened " or similiar sentiments - - > Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is > achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the > horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Hey Bill, Where is El? We need her help. Don't you think? Pete --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > No one knows about anyone else's ego. > All talk about ego is inherently talk > about one's own ego. > > -Bill > > > Anand Eswaran [anandesw] > Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:27 AM > Nisargadatta > Re: Re: On " being > enlightened " > > > You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad > to > be reason for you to laugh. > > Laughing insanely, > ---- > Anand. > > > --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote: > <HR> > <html><body> > > > <tt> > Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do > you<BR> > came to the conclusion he speaks from his own<BR> > experience on the basis of one short, negative<BR> > message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are piss > at us<BR> > because we don't show proper amazement at your > wisdom?<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > You two have something in common: You both jump<BR> > to conclusions without investigating and look > like<BR> > fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.<BR> > <BR> > Pete<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because > he has seen through<BR> > & gt; us all. :-)<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because > he > bases<BR> > & gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta > but > on<BR> > & gt; his experience : his Truth.<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; Namaste,<BR> > & gt; -----<BR> > & gt; Anand.<BR> > & gt; <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp; > More<BR> > <a > href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a><BR> > </tt> > > <br> > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> > <td align=center><font size= " -1 " > color=#003399><b> > Sponsor</b></font></td> > </tr> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> > <td align=center width=470><TABLE WIDTH=300 > HEIGHT=250 > border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td > align=center><font face=arial > size=-2></font><br> > <TR> > <TD> > <a > href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=170 > 5077076:HM/A=810327/R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs " > target=_top><IMG > SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_01.jpg " > WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD> > <TD> > <a > href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=170 > 5077076:HM/A=810327/R=1/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs " > target=_top><IMG > SRC= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_2_02.gif " > WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD> > </TR></a> > </TABLE></td> > </tr> > <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1 > src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egrou > pmail/S=:HM/A=810327/rand=688817204 " ></td></tr> > </table> > > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> > > > <br> > <tt> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Indeed! --- cornelius <d_agenda2000 wrote: > Hi, > For a moment drop the " fact " that " I Am That " is a > book and consider > that it is the instrument in which Nisargadatta > channelled " knowledge " . Some refer to that > " knowledge " as " on > enlightenment " . > Reading the book is an event, a veritable meditation > in I- > consciousness. Hence, you may begin to understand > why some will give > your writing short shift when you admit that you > have not even READ > THE BOOK. On reading that, why would one wish to > decipher what you > interpret of Nisargadatta's ideas? > Just my opinion, of course, but Having Not Read the > Book and yet > attempting to make a substantive comment on > Nisargadatta is , to > quote you, " putting the cart before the horse " > > cornelius > > > > Nisargadatta, " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> > wrote: > > I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two > - what I see alot > > are two things: > > 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of > words together > that > > sound impressive but don't add up to anything. > This is > > because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to > be a riddle, > paradox > > or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of > these. > > 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, > whether it be a mood > of > > nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling > of nowness or some > > other vague nondescript condition. > > > > I also see folks such as myself - folks who > suspect that there is > > more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or > whatever. > > > > I admit I have not read the book that is the > source of this > > discussion -- " I AM THAT ... " , however I believe > the problem is in > > the book. While it is true that there are no > obstacles > > to 'enlightenment' except those we place before > ourselves, > Nisargatta > > appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary > Sixpack, who > > sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't > have a clue of what > > to 'do' today. > > > > Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how > did he do it. > > Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I > bought the ticket. > So > > now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, > cleverness, making > a > > mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or > > achieves 'enlightenment'. > > > > You may say " enlightenment is not an achievement " > or " one does not > > have to do anything to be enlightened " or similiar > sentiments - - > > Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER > enlightenment is > > achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the > cart before the > > horse. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 To whom is he dangerous? " namastes " notwithstanding, who is so drawn to demonstrate their cocksure arrogant nonconceptuality with american expletives. somehow " your " nonconceptuality amounts to a " preppy " satsangh. But then, need I remind myself that " sniper " is just a concept. cornelius Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > This man is dangerous because he has seen through > us all. :-) > > He is close to THAT simply because he bases > statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on > his experience : his Truth. > > Namaste, > ----- > Anand. > > --- trem23 <inmadison@h...> wrote: > <HR> > <html><body> > > > <tt> > I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - > what I see alot <BR> > are two things:<BR> > 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of > words together that <BR> > sound impressive but don't add up to > anything. & nbsp; & nbsp; This is <BR> > because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a > riddle, paradox <BR> > or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of > these.<BR> > 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether > it be a mood of <BR> > nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of > nowness or some <BR> > other vague nondescript condition.<BR> > <BR> > I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect > that there is <BR> > more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or > whatever.<BR> > <BR> > I admit I have not read the book that is the source of > this <BR> > discussion -- & quot;I AM THAT ... & quot;, however I > believe the problem is in <BR> > the book. & nbsp; While it is true that there are no > obstacles <BR> > to 'enlightenment' except those we place before > ourselves, Nisargatta <BR> > appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary > Sixpack, who <BR> > sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a > clue of what <BR> > to 'do' today.<BR> > <BR> > Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did > he do it. & nbsp; <BR> > Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought > the ticket. & nbsp; So <BR> > now everyone is eating carrots. & nbsp; Eating carrots, > cleverness, making a <BR> > mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or <BR> > achieves 'enlightenment'.<BR> > <BR> > You may say & quot;enlightenment is not an > achievement & quot; or & quot;one does not <BR> > have to do anything to be enlightened & quot; or > similiar sentiments - - <BR> > Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER > enlightenment is <BR> > achieved. & nbsp; & nbsp; And that is where Nisargatta put > the cart before the <BR> > horse. <BR> > <BR> > Nisargadatta, & quot;Bill Rishel & quot; > plexus@x wrote:<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is no & quot;one & quot; to be > enlightened.<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If & quot;one & quot; is in the Now then > & quot;one & quot; does not exist,<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; only the Now is. If & quot;one & quot; > is not in the Now, then<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; there is delusion. <BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; So there is only one Buddha, and that > is the Now.<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; When any & quot;one & quot; dissolves > into the Now that & quot;one & quot;<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; dissolves into the single universal > buddha-nature.<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one dissolves into Now > & quot;enlightenment is & quot;.<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one precipitates out....<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Forget enlightenment as > permanent.<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; And & quot;who & quot; needs it?<BR> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Now is always knocking.<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; -Bill<BR> > <BR> > </tt> > > <br> > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> > <td align=center><font size= " -1 " > color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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