On being enlightened

October 16, 2002

Pete,

I do. I've been wondering what happened to her.

Ever since those fifty words she wrote.

Maybe some kind of super-nova.

But yes, we need her help.

El? You there?

And I've been noticing what yoeman's work you've

been doing, Pete. Nice balance of toughness and

compassion.

-Bill

pete seesaw [seesaw1us]

Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:04 PM

Nisargadatta

RE: Re: On " being enlightened "

Hey Bill,

Where is El? We need her help. Don't you think?

Pete

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

> No one knows about anyone else's ego.

> All talk about ego is inherently talk

> about one's own ego.

>

> -Bill

>

> Anand Eswaran [anandesw]

> Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:27 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: Re: On " being

> enlightened "

>

> You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad

> to

> be reason for you to laugh.

>

> Laughing insanely,

> ----

> Anand.

>

> --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do

> you

> came to the conclusion he speaks from his own

> experience on the basis of one short, negative

> message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are piss

> at us

> because we don't show proper amazement at your

> wisdom?

>

> You two have something in common: You both jump

> to conclusions without investigating and look

> like

> fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.

>

> Pete

>

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because

> he has seen through

> & gt; us all. :-)

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because

> he

> bases

> & gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta

> but

> on

> & gt; his experience : his Truth.

> & gt;

> & gt; Namaste,

> & gt; -----

> & gt; Anand.

> & gt;

>

>

>

> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp;

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> <a

>

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> </tt>

>

>

>

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October 16, 2002

Whosoever irks our ire is our teacher.

For whosoever irks our ire shows us ourself.

-Bill

cornelius [d_agenda2000]

Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:18 PM

Nisargadatta

Re: On " being enlightened "

To whom is he dangerous?

" namastes " notwithstanding, who is so drawn to demonstrate their

cocksure arrogant nonconceptuality with american expletives.

somehow " your " nonconceptuality amounts to a " preppy " satsangh.

But then, need I remind myself that " sniper " is just a concept.

cornelius

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote:

> This man is dangerous because he has seen through

> us all. :-)

>

> He is close to THAT simply because he bases

> statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but on

> his experience : his Truth.

>

> Namaste,

> -----

> Anand.

>

> --- trem23 <inmadison@h...> wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two -

> what I see alot

> are two things:

> 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of

> words together that

> sound impressive but don't add up to

> anything. & nbsp; & nbsp; This is

> because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a

> riddle, paradox

> or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of

> these.

> 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether

> it be a mood of

> nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of

> nowness or some

> other vague nondescript condition.

>

> I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect

> that there is

> more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or

> whatever.

>

> I admit I have not read the book that is the source of

> this

> discussion -- & quot;I AM THAT ... & quot;, however I

> believe the problem is in

> the book. & nbsp; While it is true that there are no

> obstacles

> to 'enlightenment' except those we place before

> ourselves, Nisargatta

> appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary

> Sixpack, who

> sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a

> clue of what

> to 'do' today.

>

> Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did

> he do it. & nbsp;

> Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought

> the ticket. & nbsp; So

> now everyone is eating carrots. & nbsp; Eating carrots,

> cleverness, making a

> mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

> achieves 'enlightenment'.

>

> You may say & quot;enlightenment is not an

> achievement & quot; or & quot;one does not

> have to do anything to be enlightened & quot; or

> similiar sentiments - -

> Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER

> enlightenment is

> achieved. & nbsp; & nbsp; And that is where Nisargatta put

> the cart before the

> horse.

>

> Nisargadatta, & quot;Bill Rishel & quot;

> plexus@x wrote:

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; There is no & quot;one & quot; to be

> enlightened.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If & quot;one & quot; is in the Now then

> & quot;one & quot; does not exist,

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; only the Now is. If & quot;one & quot;

> is not in the Now, then

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; there is delusion.

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; So there is only one Buddha, and that

> is the Now.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; When any & quot;one & quot; dissolves

> into the Now that & quot;one & quot;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; dissolves into the single universal

> buddha-nature.

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one dissolves into Now

> & quot;enlightenment is & quot;.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; If one precipitates out....

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Forget enlightenment as

> permanent.

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; And & quot;who & quot; needs it?

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; Now is always knocking.

> & gt;

> & gt; -Bill

>

> </tt>

>

>

>

>

>

> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

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October 16, 2002

Tut Tut Tut!

------

Anand. :-)

--- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Indeed!

--- cornelius & lt;d_agenda2000 & gt;

wrote:

& gt; Hi,

& gt; For a moment drop the & quot;fact & quot; that

& quot;I Am That & quot; is & nbsp; a

& gt; book and consider

& gt; that it is the instrument in & nbsp; which

Nisargadatta

& gt; channelled & quot;knowledge & quot;. Some refer to

that

& gt; & quot;knowledge & quot; as & quot;on

& gt; enlightenment & quot;.

& gt; Reading the book is an event, a veritable

meditation

& gt; in I-

& gt; consciousness. Hence, you may begin to

understand

& gt; why some will give

& gt; your writing short shift when you admit that

you

& gt; have not even READ

& gt; THE BOOK. On reading that, why would one wish

to

& gt; decipher what you & nbsp;

& gt; interpret of Nisargadatta's ideas?

& gt; Just my opinion, of course, but Having Not Read

the

& gt; Book and yet

& gt; attempting to make a substantive comment on

& gt; Nisargadatta is , to

& gt; quote you, & quot;putting the cart before the

horse & quot;

& gt;

& gt; cornelius

& gt;

& gt; Nisargadatta, & quot;trem23 & quot;

& lt;inmadison@h... & gt;

& gt; wrote:

& gt; & gt; I have been surfing this egroup for a week

or two

& gt; - what I see alot

& gt; & gt; are two things:

& gt; & gt; 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is,

tying of

& gt; words together

& gt; that

& gt; & gt; sound impressive but don't add up to

anything. & nbsp;

& gt; This is

& gt; & gt; because 'enlightenment' is considered by

many to

& gt; be a riddle,

& gt; paradox

& gt; & gt; or unnatural state of existence - - it is

none of

& gt; these.

& gt; & gt; 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or

feeling,

& gt; whether it be a mood

& gt; of

& gt; & gt; nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go

feeling

& gt; of nowness or some

& gt; & gt; other vague nondescript condition.

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; I also see folks such as myself - folks

who

& gt; suspect that there is

& gt; & gt; more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent,

or

& gt; whatever.

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; I admit I have not read the book that is

the

& gt; source of this

& gt; & gt; discussion -- & quot;I AM THAT ... & quot;,

however I believe

& gt; the problem is in

& gt; & gt; the book. & nbsp; While it is true that there

are no

& gt; obstacles

& gt; & gt; to 'enlightenment' except those we place

before

& gt; ourselves,

& gt; Nisargatta

& gt; & gt; appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and

Mary

& gt; Sixpack, who

& gt; & gt; sincerely yearn for 'something', but who

don't

& gt; have a clue of what

& gt; & gt; to 'do' today.

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; Like the man who wins the lottery and is

asked how

& gt; did he do it. & nbsp;

& gt; & gt; Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning

I

& gt; bought the ticket. & nbsp;

& gt; So

& gt; & gt; now everyone is eating carrots. & nbsp; Eating

carrots,

& gt; cleverness, making

& gt; a

& gt; & gt; mood - these are not how one wins the

lottery or

& gt; & gt; achieves 'enlightenment'.

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; You may say & quot;enlightenment is not an

achievement & quot;

& gt; or & quot;one does not

& gt; & gt; have to do anything to be enlightened & quot;

or similiar

& gt; sentiments - -

& gt; & gt; Yes, but these sentiments are only true

AFTER

& gt; enlightenment is

& gt; & gt; achieved. & nbsp; & nbsp; And that is where

Nisargatta put the

& gt; cart before the

& gt; & gt; horse.

& gt;

& gt;

October 16, 2002

Go on. Curse me , ridicule me , call me an asshole

, call me insane.

All I request you to do in return is analyse if you

have the courage to stand for nothing , no " I am that "

, no seeking , nothing divine.

Seekers can but be miserable. Accept that. That is

your Truth, not " I am that " which is just a concept in

your world.

I find honesty grossly lacking in this group.

As to my " wisdom " , why do you trust Nisargadatta

and not me? Because I arrogantly proclaim to you that

" I am that " ? Why do you see contradictions there?

------

Anand.

--- cornelius <d_agenda2000 wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

To whom is he dangerous?

& quot;namastes & quot; notwithstanding, who is so drawn

to demonstrate their

cocksure arrogant nonconceptuality with american

expletives.

somehow & quot;your & quot; nonconceptuality amounts to a

& quot;preppy & quot; satsangh.

But then, need I remind myself that & quot;sniper & quot;

is just a concept.

cornelius

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran

& lt;anandesw & gt; wrote:

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because

he has seen through

& gt; us all. :-)

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because he

bases

& gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but

on

& gt; his experience : his Truth.

& gt;

& gt; Namaste,

& gt; -----

& gt; Anand.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; --- trem23 & lt;inmadison@h... & gt; wrote:

& gt; & lt;HR & gt;

& gt; & lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;tt & gt;

& gt; I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two

-

& gt; what I see alot & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; are two things: & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying

of

& gt; words together that & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; sound impressive but don't add up to

& gt; anything. & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; This is

& lt;BR & gt;

& gt; because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to

be a

& gt; riddle, paradox & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; or unnatural state of existence - - it is none

of

& gt; these. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling,

whether

& gt; it be a mood of & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling

of

& gt; nowness or some & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; other vague nondescript condition. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; I also see folks such as myself - folks who

suspect

& gt; that there is & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent,

or

& gt; whatever. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; I admit I have not read the book that is the

source of

& gt; this & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; discussion -- & amp;quot;I AM THAT ... & amp;quot;,

however I

& gt; believe the problem is in & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; the book. & amp;nbsp; While it is true that there

are no

& gt; obstacles & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; to 'enlightenment' except those we place

before

& gt; ourselves, Nisargatta & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and

Mary

& gt; Sixpack, who & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't

have a

& gt; clue of what & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; to 'do' today. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked

how did

& gt; he do it. & amp;nbsp; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I

bought

& gt; the ticket. & amp;nbsp; So & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; now everyone is eating carrots. & amp;nbsp; Eating

carrots,

& gt; cleverness, making a & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

& lt;BR & gt;

& gt; achieves 'enlightenment'. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; You may say & amp;quot;enlightenment is not an

& gt; achievement & amp;quot; or & amp;quot;one does not

& lt;BR & gt;

& gt; have to do anything to be enlightened & amp;quot;

or

& gt; similiar sentiments - - & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER

& gt; enlightenment is & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; achieved. & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; And that is where

Nisargatta put

& gt; the cart before the & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; horse. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; Nisargadatta, & amp;quot;Bill

Rishel & amp;quot;

& gt; plexus@x wrote: & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; There is no

& amp;quot;one & amp;quot; to be

& gt; enlightened. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; If

& amp;quot;one & amp;quot; is in the Now then

& gt; & amp;quot;one & amp;quot; does not

exist, & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; only the Now is. If

& amp;quot;one & amp;quot;

& gt; is not in the Now, then & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; there is delusion.

& lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; So there is only one

Buddha, and that

& gt; is the Now. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; When any

& amp;quot;one & amp;quot; dissolves

& gt; into the Now that

& amp;quot;one & amp;quot; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; dissolves into the

single universal

& gt; buddha-nature. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; If one dissolves

into Now

& gt; & amp;quot;enlightenment

is & amp;quot;. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; If one precipitates

out.... & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; Forget enlightenment

as

& gt; permanent. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; And

& amp;quot;who & amp;quot; needs it? & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; Now is always

knocking. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; -Bill & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;/tt & gt;

& gt;

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& gt;

October 16, 2002

And Dan, my friend, how are you?

And, how is the seeking?

-----

Anand.

PS : You were right as regards telling Shankar that I

would come out of hiding one day . The Truth is such

that it's bearer cannot neglect it's influence and go

about life routinely ( that's what Ive tried

unsuccesfully for the last 4 months to do) . I would

like to meet with you sometime.Im living at Pitsburgh

( at CMU) which is close enough to Maryland. Do you

know that though paradoxically Im supposed to be the

self-realized dude , you are my guru of sorts. :-) All

I ever knew in my seeker days before IT happened , I

knew from Shankar and you were a big big influence on

him. Do come.We'll atleast talk lots of bullshit like

the assholes on these group.

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Pete,

I do. I've been wondering what happened to her.

Ever since those fifty words she wrote.

Maybe some kind of super-nova.

But yes, we need her help.

El? You there?

And I've been noticing what yoeman's work you've

been doing, Pete. Nice balance of toughness and

compassion.

-Bill

pete seesaw [seesaw1us]

Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:04 PM

Nisargadatta

RE: Re: On & quot;being

enlightened & quot;

Hey Bill,

Where is El? We need her help. Don't you think?

Pete

--- Bill Rishel & lt;plexus & gt;

wrote:

& gt; No one knows about anyone else's ego.

& gt; All talk about ego is inherently talk

& gt; about one's own ego.

& gt;

& gt; -Bill

& gt;

& gt;

& gt; Anand Eswaran

[anandesw]

& gt; Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:27 AM

& gt; Nisargadatta

& gt; Re: Re: On

& quot;being

& gt; enlightened & quot;

& gt;

& gt; You will accept what your ego want to accept.

Glad

& gt; to

& gt; be reason for you to laugh.

& gt;

& gt; Laughing insanely,

& gt; ----

& gt; Anand.

& gt;

& gt; --- pete seesaw & lt;seesaw1us & gt;

wrote:

& gt; & lt;HR & gt;

& gt; & lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;

& gt;

& gt; & lt;tt & gt;

& gt; Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how

do

& gt; you & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; came to the conclusion he speaks from his

own & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; experience on the basis of one short,

negative & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; message? & amp;nbsp; Could the reason be that you

are piss

& gt; at us & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; because we don't show proper amazement at

your

& gt; wisdom? & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; You two have something in common: You both

jump & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; to conclusions without investigating and look

& gt; like & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; fools. Thanks to you both for the

laugh. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; Pete & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; This man

is dangerous because

& gt; he has seen through & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; us all. :-) & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; He is close to THAT

simply because

& gt; he

& gt; bases & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; statements not on some fuck-all

Nisargadatta

& gt; but

& gt; on & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; his experience : his

Truth. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; Namaste, & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; ----- & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; Anand. & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

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& gt; & lt;BR & gt;

& gt; Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos

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October 16, 2002

As for the charge of putting the cart before the horse - I stand

guilty as charged. Wait a second . . . hold on . . . my attorney

is tugging on my sleeve . . . he is telling me something . . . Your

Honor, I AM the book

The Atman Behind The Curtain.

Nisargadatta, " cornelius " <d_agenda2000> wrote:

> Hi,

> For a moment drop the " fact " that " I Am That " is a book and

consider

> that it is the instrument in which Nisargadatta

> channelled " knowledge " . Some refer to that " knowledge " as " on

> enlightenment " .

> Reading the book is an event, a veritable meditation in I-

> consciousness. Hence, you may begin to understand why some will

give

> your writing short shift when you admit that you have not even

READ

> THE BOOK. On reading that, why would one wish to decipher what

you

> interpret of Nisargadatta's ideas?

> Just my opinion, of course, but Having Not Read the Book and yet

> attempting to make a substantive comment on Nisargadatta is , to

> quote you, " putting the cart before the horse "

>

> cornelius

>

> Nisargadatta, " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote:

> > I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two - what I see

alot

> > are two things:

> > 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying of words together

> that

> > sound impressive but don't add up to anything. This is

> > because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to be a riddle,

> paradox

> > or unnatural state of existence - - it is none of these.

> > 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling, whether it be a

mood

> of

> > nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling of nowness or

some

> > other vague nondescript condition.

> >

> > I also see folks such as myself - folks who suspect that there

is

> > more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent, or whatever.

> >

> > I admit I have not read the book that is the source of this

> > discussion -- " I AM THAT ... " , however I believe the problem is

in

> > the book. While it is true that there are no obstacles

> > to 'enlightenment' except those we place before ourselves,

> Nisargatta

> > appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and Mary Sixpack, who

> > sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't have a clue of

what

> > to 'do' today.

> >

> > Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked how did he do

it.

> > Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I bought the

ticket.

> So

> > now everyone is eating carrots. Eating carrots, cleverness,

making

> a

> > mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

> > achieves 'enlightenment'.

> >

> > You may say " enlightenment is not an achievement " or " one does

not

> > have to do anything to be enlightened " or similiar sentiments - -

> > Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER enlightenment is

> > achieved. And that is where Nisargatta put the cart before the

> > horse.

October 16, 2002

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote:

> We'll atleast talk lots of bullshit like

> the assholes on these group.

Hahahaha

thanks for the laughs

October 16, 2002

Sure, anytime!

------

Anand.

--- Hur Guler <hurg wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran

& lt;anandesw & gt; wrote:

& gt; We'll atleast talk lots of bullshit like

& gt; the assholes on these group.

Hahahaha

thanks for the laughs

& nbsp;

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 16, 2002

BTW, I am as much a part of this assholic group as

anyone else.I'll be the first one to accept that,

-----

Anand.

--- Anand Eswaran <anandesw wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Sure, anytime!

------

Anand.

--- Hur Guler & lt;hurg & gt; wrote:

& lt;HR & gt;

& lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;

& lt;tt & gt;

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran

& amp;lt;anandesw & amp;gt; wrote: & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;gt; We'll atleast talk lots of bullshit

like & lt;BR & gt;

& amp;gt; the assholes on these group. & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

Hahahaha & lt;BR & gt;

thanks for the laughs & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

& amp;nbsp; & lt;BR & gt;

& lt;BR & gt;

& lt;/tt & gt;

& lt;br & gt;

& lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- & gt;

& lt;table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 & gt;

& lt;tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC & gt;

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size= & quot;-1 & quot;

color=#003399 & gt; & lt;b & gt;

Sponsor & lt;/b & gt; & lt;/font & gt; & lt;/td & gt;

& lt;/tr & gt;

& lt;tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF & gt;

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border=0

cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 & gt; & lt;tr & gt; & lt;td

align=center & gt; & lt;font face=arial

size=-2 & gt; & lt;/font & gt; & lt;br & gt; & lt;a

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/R=0/*http://webevents.broadcast.com/universal/8mile</a> & quot; & gt; & lt;img

src= & quot;<a

href= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/un/universal/8mile_hm_300x250.jpg " >htt\

p://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/un/universal/8mile_hm_300x250.jpg</a> & quot;

alt= & quot; & quot; width= & quot;300 & quot;

height= & quot;250 & quot;

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;

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height=1

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& lt;/table & gt;

& lt;!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -- & gt;

& lt;br & gt;

& lt;tt & gt;

October 16, 2002

Cornelius wrote [[Reading the book is an event, a veritable

meditation in I - consciousness.]]

** No less so than /Sri Isopanisad/ or, /The Hymns of Sankara/.

Om Shanti ...

Shakti

October 16, 2002

Actually, I don't even curse or consider the " sniper " insane...

Be a happy camper, enjoy the Hunt!

all is perfect

" don't worry, be happy "

bobby mcferrin

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote:

> Go on. Curse me , ridicule me , call me an asshole

> , call me insane.

>

> All I request you to do in return is analyse if you

> have the courage to stand for nothing , no " I am that "

> , no seeking , nothing divine.

>

> Seekers can but be miserable. Accept that. That is

> your Truth, not " I am that " which is just a concept in

> your world.

>

> I find honesty grossly lacking in this group.

>

> As to my " wisdom " , why do you trust Nisargadatta

> and not me? Because I arrogantly proclaim to you that

> " I am that " ? Why do you see contradictions there?

>

> ------

> Anand.

>

> --- cornelius <d_agenda2000> wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> To whom is he dangerous?

>

> & quot;namastes & quot; notwithstanding, who is so drawn

> to demonstrate their

> cocksure arrogant nonconceptuality with american

> expletives.

>

> somehow & quot;your & quot; nonconceptuality amounts to a

> & quot;preppy & quot; satsangh.

> But then, need I remind myself that & quot;sniper & quot;

> is just a concept.

>

> cornelius

>

> Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran

> anandesw wrote:

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous because

> he has seen through

> & gt; us all. :-)

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply because he

> bases

> & gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta but

> on

> & gt; his experience : his Truth.

> & gt;

> & gt; Namaste,

> & gt; -----

> & gt; Anand.

> & gt;

> & gt; & nbsp; --- trem23 inmadison@h... wrote:

>

> & gt; & lt;HR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;html & gt; & lt;body & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;tt & gt;

> & gt; I have been surfing this egroup for a week or two

> -

> & gt; what I see alot & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; are two things: & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; 1) preponderance of cleverness, that is, tying

> of

> & gt; words together that & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; sound impressive but don't add up to

> & gt; anything. & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; This is

> & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; because 'enlightenment' is considered by many to

> be a

> & gt; riddle, paradox & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; or unnatural state of existence - - it is none

> of

> & gt; these. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; 2) making 'enlightenment' a mood or feeling,

> whether

> & gt; it be a mood of & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; nonattachment, or some fuzzy come-and-go feeling

> of

> & gt; nowness or some & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; other vague nondescript condition. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; I also see folks such as myself - folks who

> suspect

> & gt; that there is & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; more to life, perhaps blissfull, permanent,

> or

> & gt; whatever. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; I admit I have not read the book that is the

> source of

> & gt; this & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; discussion -- & amp;quot;I AM THAT ... & amp;quot;,

> however I

> & gt; believe the problem is in & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; the book. & amp;nbsp; While it is true that there

> are no

> & gt; obstacles & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; to 'enlightenment' except those we place

> before

> & gt; ourselves, Nisargatta & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; appears to not offer any wisdom to Joe and

> Mary

> & gt; Sixpack, who & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; sincerely yearn for 'something', but who don't

> have a

> & gt; clue of what & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; to 'do' today. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; Like the man who wins the lottery and is asked

> how did

> & gt; he do it. & amp;nbsp; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; Well, he replies, I had carrots the morning I

> bought

> & gt; the ticket. & amp;nbsp; So & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; now everyone is eating carrots. & amp;nbsp; Eating

> carrots,

> & gt; cleverness, making a & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; mood - these are not how one wins the lottery or

> & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; achieves 'enlightenment'. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; You may say & amp;quot;enlightenment is not an

> & gt; achievement & amp;quot; or & amp;quot;one does not

> & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; have to do anything to be enlightened & amp;quot;

> or

> & gt; similiar sentiments - - & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; Yes, but these sentiments are only true AFTER

> & gt; enlightenment is & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; achieved. & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; And that is where

> Nisargatta put

> & gt; the cart before the & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; horse. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; Nisargadatta, & amp;quot;Bill

> Rishel & amp;quot;

> & gt; plexus@x wrote: & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; There is no

> & amp;quot;one & amp;quot; to be

> & gt; enlightened. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; If

> & amp;quot;one & amp;quot; is in the Now then

> & gt; & amp;quot;one & amp;quot; does not

> exist, & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; only the Now is. If

> & amp;quot;one & amp;quot;

> & gt; is not in the Now, then & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; there is delusion.

> & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; So there is only one

> Buddha, and that

> & gt; is the Now. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; When any

> & amp;quot;one & amp;quot; dissolves

> & gt; into the Now that

> & amp;quot;one & amp;quot; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; dissolves into the

> single universal

> & gt; buddha-nature. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; If one dissolves

> into Now

> & gt; & amp;quot;enlightenment

> is & amp;quot;. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; If one precipitates

> out.... & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; Forget enlightenment

> as

> & gt; permanent. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; And

> & amp;quot;who & amp;quot; needs it? & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & amp;nbsp; & amp;nbsp; Now is always

> knocking. & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & amp;gt; -Bill & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;BR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/tt & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;br & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- & gt;

> & gt;

> & gt; & lt;table border=0 cellspacing=0

> cellpadding=2 & gt;

> & gt; & lt;tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC & gt;

> & gt; & lt;td align=center & gt; & lt;font

> size= & quot;-1 & quot;

> & gt; color=#003399 & gt; & lt;b & gt;

> Sponsor & lt;/b & gt; & lt;/font & gt; & lt;/td & gt;

> & gt; & lt;/tr & gt;

> & gt; & lt;tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF & gt;

> & gt; & lt;td align=center width=470 & gt; & lt;TABLE

> WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250

> & gt; border=0 cellpadding=0

> cellspacing=0 & gt; & lt;tr & gt; & lt;td

> & gt; align=center & gt; & lt;font face=arial

> & gt;

> size=-2 & gt; & lt;/font & gt; & lt;br & gt;

> & gt; & lt;TR & gt;

> & gt; & lt;TD & gt;

> & gt; & lt;a

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> & gt;

October 16, 2002

Thanks, I'm doing nothing, just letting a message move

on through, but they kill the messanger. Don't they?

El, wake up!

Pete

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

> Pete,

>

> I do. I've been wondering what happened to her.

> Ever since those fifty words she wrote.

> Maybe some kind of super-nova.

>

> But yes, we need her help.

> El? You there?

>

> And I've been noticing what yoeman's work you've

> been doing, Pete. Nice balance of toughness and

> compassion.

>

> -Bill

>

> pete seesaw [seesaw1us]

> Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:04 PM

> Nisargadatta

> RE: Re: On " being

> enlightened "

>

> Hey Bill,

> Where is El? We need her help. Don't you think?

>

> Pete

>

> --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

> > No one knows about anyone else's ego.

> > All talk about ego is inherently talk

> > about one's own ego.

> >

> > -Bill

> >

> > Anand Eswaran [anandesw]

> > Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:27 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > Re: Re: On " being

> > enlightened "

> >

> > You will accept what your ego want to accept. Glad

> > to

> > be reason for you to laugh.

> >

> > Laughing insanely,

> > ----

> > Anand.

> >

> > --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

> > <HR>

> > <html><body>

> >

> > <tt>

> > Do you care to explain to us, poor mortals, how do

> > you

> > came to the conclusion he speaks from his own

> > experience on the basis of one short, negative

> > message? & nbsp; Could the reason be that you are

> piss

> > at us

> > because we don't show proper amazement at your

> > wisdom?

> >

> > You two have something in common: You both

> jump

> > to conclusions without investigating and look

> > like

> > fools. Thanks to you both for the laugh.

> >

> > Pete

> >

> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; This man is dangerous

> because

> > he has seen through

> > & gt; us all. :-)

> > & gt;

> > & gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; He is close to THAT simply

> because

> > he

> > bases

> > & gt; statements not on some fuck-all Nisargadatta

> > but

> > on

> > & gt; his experience : his Truth.

> > & gt;

> > & gt; Namaste,

> > & gt; -----

> > & gt; Anand.

> > & gt;

> >

> >

>

> >

> > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp;

> > More

> > <a

> >

>

href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a>

> > </tt>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

> > <td align=center><font size= " -1 "

> > color=#003399>

> > Sponsor</td>

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> > <TR>

> > <TD>

> > <a

> >

>

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> >

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> > WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD>

> > <TD>

> > <a

> >

>

href= " http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=170

> >

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> > WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD>

> > </TR></a>

> > </TABLE></td>

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> > <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1

> >

>

src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egrou

> > pmail/S=:HM/A=810327/rand=688817204 " ></td></tr>

> > </table>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <tt>

> >

October 16, 2002

>

> PS : You were right as regards telling Shankar that

> I

> would come out of hiding one day . The Truth is

> such

> that it's bearer cannot neglect it's influence and

> go

> about life routinely ( that's what Ive tried

> unsuccesfully for the last 4 months to do) . I would

> like to meet with you sometime.Im living at

> Pitsburgh

> ( at CMU) which is close enough to Maryland. Do you

> know that though paradoxically Im supposed to be the

> self-realized dude , you are my guru of sorts. :-)

> All

> I ever knew in my seeker days before IT happened , I

> knew from Shankar and you were a big big influence

> on

> him. Do come.We'll atleast talk lots of bullshit

> like

> the assholes on these group.

Now the cat is out of the bag! Doesn't this need to

talk to someone, to receive his approval tells you,

you

are not there yet? You have understood some concepts.

You have seen some pretty sights. You are just a

tourist. You only seen the beach! You have not

unpacked yet. All sort of cravings are still churning

inside. Yeah, you're very sick, but you ain't

dead yet. Calling Dr Dan Kavorkian Eh? )))

Pete

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

October 16, 2002

Are you honest, Anan? If you are, why don't you admit

you are upse? And if you truly stand for nothing, why

are you upset? You are upset because you value your

concepts, your truth, we are not validating your

findings. So what? Why do you need our approval?

The last temptation of Christ, of Buddha and the rest,

was the temptation to seek followers. They failed, all

saviors have failed because there will always be

people

that will reject you and follow another. Get over it,

there is nothing new to teach, all that can be said,

has been said. We are just picking each other flees

here. And having fun eating them.

Bon appetite,

Pete

> Go on. Curse me , ridicule me , call me an

> asshole

> , call me insane.

>

> All I request you to do in return is analyse if

> you

> have the courage to stand for nothing , no " I am

> that "

> , no seeking , nothing divine.

>

> Seekers can but be miserable. Accept that. That

> is

> your Truth, not " I am that " which is just a concept

> in

> your world.

>

> I find honesty grossly lacking in this group.

>

> As to my " wisdom " , why do you trust Nisargadatta

> and not me? Because I arrogantly proclaim to you

> that

> " I am that " ? Why do you see contradictions there?

>

> ------

> Anand.

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

October 16, 2002

To Pete :

You're right, Im sick. Ignore me henceforth.

-----

Anand.

--- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

<HR>

<

Now the cat is out of the bag! Doesn't this need

to

talk to someone, to receive his approval tells

you,

you

are not there yet? You have understood & nbsp; some

concepts.

You & nbsp; have seen some pretty sights. You are just

a

tourist. You only seen the beach! You have not

unpacked yet. All & nbsp; sort of cravings are still

churning

inside. Yeah, you're & nbsp; very sick, but you

ain't

dead yet. Calling Dr & nbsp; Dan Kavorkian Eh? )))

Pete

______________________

Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, TV.

visit http://in.tv.

October 16, 2002

Pete, it eventually it all boils down to faith. Some

guys have faith in some kinds of things/ people.The

guru, is , after all but a reflection : a validation

of your inner state.What can the guru do anyway?

Forget Nisarga, forget Ramana, forget Anand ( the

audacity of this kid, comparing himself with the likes

of these masters ??:-) )

Listen to your Inner Voice

The satguru is really " honesty " , honesty to none but

oneself.

That is after all your Truth.You canonly get to the

Truth from your Truth. Do that first.

Namaste,

---

Anand.

--- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Are you honest, Anan? If you are, why don't you

admit

you are upse? And if you truly stand for nothing,

why

are you upset? You are upset because you value

your

concepts, your truth, we are not validating your

findings. & nbsp; So what? Why do you need our

approval?

The last temptation of Christ, of Buddha and the

rest,

was the temptation to seek followers. They failed,

all

saviors have failed because there will always be

people

that will reject you and follow another. Get over

it,

there is nothing new to teach, all that can be

said,

has been said. We are just picking each other

flees

here. And having fun eating them.

Bon appetite,

Pete

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Go on. Curse me , ridicule me ,

call me an

& gt; asshole

& gt; , call me insane.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; All I request you to do in return is

analyse if

& gt; you

& gt; have the courage to stand for nothing , no

& quot;I am

& gt; that & quot;

& gt; , no seeking , nothing divine.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; Seekers can but be

miserable. Accept that. That

& gt; is

& gt; your Truth, not & quot;I am that & quot; which is

just a concept

& gt; in

& gt; your world.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; I find honesty grossly lacking

in this group.

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; As to my & quot;wisdom & quot; , why do

you trust Nisargadatta

& gt; and not me? Because I arrogantly proclaim to

you

& gt; that

& gt; & quot; I am that & quot; ? Why do you see

contradictions there?

& gt;

& gt; ------

& gt; Anand.

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp;

More

<a

href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a>

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 16, 2002

Anand,

I resonate with what you say here.

Here's my contribution on the topic:

Passion for Truth

Passion for Truth manifests

in different ways in practice.

Without Passion for Truth

any practice is shallow and futile.

With Passion for Truth

just being alive is the most vital practice.

-Bill

> Pete, it eventually it all boils down to faith. Some

> guys have faith in some kinds of things/ people.The

> guru, is , after all but a reflection : a validation

> of your inner state.What can the guru do anyway?

>

> Forget Nisarga, forget Ramana, forget Anand ( the

> audacity of this kid, comparing himself with the likes

> of these masters ??:-) )

>

> Listen to your Inner Voice

> The satguru is really " honesty " , honesty to none but

> oneself.

>

> That is after all your Truth.You canonly get to the

> Truth from your Truth. Do that first.

>

> Namaste,

> ---

> Anand.

>

October 16, 2002

Hi Anand,

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote:

> And Dan, my friend, how are you?

Doing well enough, all things considered.

Glad to see you're in good spirits.

> And, how is the seeking?

Goes wherever it goes.

> -----

> Anand.

>

> PS : You were right as regards telling Shankar that I

> would come out of hiding one day . The Truth is such

> that it's bearer cannot neglect it's influence and go

> about life routinely ( that's what Ive tried

> unsuccesfully for the last 4 months to do) .

Maybe you're just going through a phase.

> I would

> like to meet with you sometime.Im living at Pitsburgh

> ( at CMU) which is close enough to Maryland.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks for the invite.

I'm in NC, so not to often in Pittsburgh,

but could happen.

> Do you

> know that though paradoxically Im supposed to be the

> self-realized dude , you are my guru of sorts. :-)

Ah, I'll just be satisfied being your friend.

Gurus seem to have to have some kind of pointing

thing to do, and I can't seem to find any pointers

at the moment.

> All

> I ever knew in my seeker days before IT happened , I

> knew from Shankar and you were a big big influence on

> him. Do come.

Nice to hear that.

We'll atleast talk lots of bullshit like

> the assholes on these group.

I just say sincere things.

Bullshit isn't much fun for me.

Enjoying your good spirits,

Dan

October 16, 2002

I meant it as a compliment, block head!

--- Anand Eswaran <anandesw wrote:

> To Pete :

>

> You're right, Im sick. Ignore me henceforth.

> -----

> Anand.

>

> --- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <

> Now the cat is out of the bag! Doesn't this need

> to

> talk to someone, to receive his approval tells

> you,

> you

> are not there yet? You have understood & nbsp; some

> concepts.

> You & nbsp; have seen some pretty sights. You are just

> a

> tourist. You only seen the beach! You have not

> unpacked yet. All & nbsp; sort of cravings are still

> churning

> inside. Yeah, you're & nbsp; very sick, but you

> ain't

> dead yet. Calling Dr & nbsp; Dan Kavorkian Eh? )))

>

> Pete

>

>

______________________

> Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the

> new, TV.

> visit http://in.tv.

>

October 16, 2002

>

> That is after all your Truth.You canonly get to

> the

> Truth from your Truth. Do that first.

>

Are you sure you are Dan's follower?

Dan would never say a piece of crap like the above.

A you or a me is the false. What Truth can there be

in a you. A you can never find The Truth. When you,

the false is seen as the false and the you drops, then

all is left is the unimpeded global view of the

manifested.

You are doing good, but you still doing. Not doing is

better.

Pete

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

October 16, 2002

Pete,

So you are saying there is no Truth within.

Apparently there can be no " within " in the

first place, if I get your drift.

But the dual appears in the non-dual. The

dual is what creates " difference " which makes

experience possible.

I do experience Truth within. It is brilliant

as a billion suns. I will die for this Truth.

This Truth is the essence of who I am.

Perhaps what I say here doesn't fit your or

someone else's model. But I am speaking my

experience. I am not assuming that my use of

the word " Truth " will mean anything to someone

else. I'm not trying to say what is for everyone.

I am only saying what is for me.

I think these exchanges would be more meaningful

if we speak for ourselves. People don't need to

be " straightened out " .

And most of all I ask that we speak to each other

with dignity.

Peace and Light,

Bill

pete seesaw [seesaw1us]

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:40 PM

Nisargadatta

Re: Re: On " being enlightened "

>

> That is after all your Truth.You canonly get to

> the

> Truth from your Truth. Do that first.

>

Are you sure you are Dan's follower?

Dan would never say a piece of crap like the above.

A you or a me is the false. What Truth can there be

in a you. A you can never find The Truth. When you,

the false is seen as the false and the you drops, then

all is left is the unimpeded global view of the

manifested.

You are doing good, but you still doing. Not doing is

better.

Pete

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

October 16, 2002

--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

> Pete,

>

> So you are saying there is no Truth within.

> Apparently there can be no " within " in the

> first place, if I get your drift.

No, I wrote there is no truth in a 'you', a person

that

can own a truth. And yes within is a concept. The

universe doesn't have such borders as within and

without.

>

> But the dual appears in the non-dual. The

> dual is what creates " difference " which makes

> experience possible.

>

> I do experience Truth within. It is brilliant

> as a billion suns. I will die for this Truth.

> This Truth is the essence of who I am.

Yes, i know what you mean. Sometimes is very bright,

sometimes is very dark. Always terribly intense, it's

this intensity that makes it seem like sunlight. That

is how the unknown impacts my brain. It might impact

someone else differently. Am I painting legs on a

snake

by calling it truth? I don't call it anything.

Your interpretation of that mental state as the truth

might be blinding you to recognized it everywhere and

in every form.

>

> Perhaps what I say here doesn't fit your or

> someone else's model. But I am speaking my

> experience. I am not assuming that my use of

> the word " Truth " will mean anything to someone

> else. I'm not trying to say what is for everyone.

> I am only saying what is for me.

I know. It's always different.

>

> I think these exchanges would be more meaningful

> if we speak for ourselves. People don't need to

> be " straightened out " .

you need no straightened out. And i don't do that

anyway, if someone claims to have no ego, i test that

theory with a stick. And I'm very happy if i find out

they were right.

>

> And most of all I ask that we speak to each other

> with dignity.

Yes sir! You have whatever respect I can muster.

If you say you are sensitive, I'll wear my kid gloves.

Pete

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

October 16, 2002

Nisargadatta, " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote:

Gurus seem to have to have some kind of pointing

thing to do, and I can't seem to find any pointers

at the moment.

KKT: A pointerless pointer seems good, Dan :-))

(like the Gateless Gate, the famous Zen Gate :-))

KKT

October 16, 2002

The sincerity of y'all is what I call bullshit.

Sorry but no other way I know of putting it.

-----

Anand.

--- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

Hi Anand,

Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran

& lt;anandesw & gt; wrote:

& gt; And Dan, my friend, how are you?

Doing well enough, all things considered.

Glad to see you're in good spirits.

& gt; And, how is the seeking? & nbsp;

Goes wherever it goes.

& gt; -----

& gt; Anand.

& gt;

& gt; PS : You were right as regards telling Shankar

that I

& gt; would & nbsp; come out of hiding one day . & nbsp;

The Truth is such

& gt; that it's bearer cannot neglect it's influence

and go

& gt; about life routinely ( that's what Ive tried

& gt; unsuccesfully for the last 4 months to do) .

Maybe you're just going through a phase.

& gt; I would

& gt; like to meet with you sometime.Im living at

Pitsburgh

& gt; ( at CMU) which is close enough to Maryland.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks for the invite.

I'm in NC, so not to often in Pittsburgh,

& nbsp; but could happen.

& gt; Do you

& gt; know that though paradoxically Im supposed to be

the

& gt; self-realized dude , you are my guru of sorts.

:-)

Ah, I'll just be satisfied being your friend.

Gurus seem to have to have some kind of pointing

& nbsp; thing to do, and I can't seem to find any

pointers

& nbsp; at the moment.

& gt; All

& gt; I ever knew in my seeker days before IT happened

, I

& gt; knew from Shankar and you were a big big

influence on

& gt; him. Do come.

Nice to hear that.

We'll atleast talk lots of bullshit like

& gt; the assholes on these group.

I just say sincere things.

Bullshit isn't much fun for me.

Enjoying your good spirits,

Dan

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

October 16, 2002

That is your Truth. Stop playing games, accept it.

-----

Anand.

--- pete seesaw <seesaw1us wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

& gt;

& gt; & nbsp; & nbsp; That is after all your Truth.You

canonly get to

& gt; the

& gt; Truth from your Truth. Do that first.

& gt;

Are you sure you are Dan's follower?

Dan would never say a piece of crap like the

above.

A you or a me is the false. What Truth can there

be

in a you. & nbsp; A you can never find The Truth. When

you,

the false is seen as the false and the you drops,

then

all is left is the unimpeded global view of the

manifested.

You are doing good, but you still doing. Not doing

is

better.

Pete

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & amp;

More

<a

href= " http://faith. " >http://faith.</a>

</tt>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 "

color=#003399>

On being enlightened

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