Guest guest Posted November 7, 2002 Report Share Posted November 7, 2002 Nothing can disturb the Peace/Silence/Awareness once established beyond a certain point. From personal experience, I can do almost anything and the next moment I am immersed in this peace as if nothing had happened. [The only thing that had been disturbing this peace was getting caught up in 'my story' from time to time.] I am sure I could even murder someone and the next moment, I would be in the peace again, as if nothing had happened. My point is that all worldly activities are of no significance to the 'Silence'. It makes no difference to the 'Silence' whether you are a sinner or a saint. After all 'you' are just a creation of your brain cells [memory]. This is my 'truth'; yours, of course, could be completely different. So don't feel threatened and jump on me! Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2002 Report Share Posted November 7, 2002 Jan You will murder me and then not feel anything but peace, and I am not to feel threatened? Jan, please post a recent photo of yourself so if I see you I'll know when to get into Karate Chop Mode, you big hairy brute you. Interesting New Age variation - - The Peace Inside made me do it!!! Please Peaceful Peace, Larry Nisargadatta, Jan Sultan <swork@m...> wrote: > Nothing can disturb the Peace/Silence/Awareness once established beyond a > certain point. From personal experience, I can do almost anything and the > next moment I am immersed in this peace as if nothing had happened. > [The only thing that had been disturbing this peace was getting caught up > in 'my story' from time to time.] > > I am sure I could even murder someone and the next moment, I would be in > the peace again, as if nothing had happened. My point is that all worldly > activities are of no significance to the 'Silence'. It makes no difference > to the 'Silence' whether you are a sinner or a saint. After all 'you' are > just a creation of your brain cells [memory]. > > This is my 'truth'; yours, of course, could be completely different. So > don't feel threatened and jump on me! > > Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2002 Report Share Posted November 7, 2002 Hi Jan, I was going to jump on you, but couldn't find you. Would my jumping down your throat bother you? I would imagine not, since you reckon murder would not. I figure this was just a figure of speech, or joke, because murder always have a self seeking motive, even if it's a psychotic one, and what self seeking motive could anyone have, if dwelling in this deep peace/silence/awareness of no-self? But, i know what you mean. Sex, drinking, even anger, doesn't seem to separate me from that. It always comes back as if i, it, could do no wrong. I attribute this to my lack of believe in any idea of selfhood to which any actions or thoughts could attach themselves. It makes me feel sorry for those poor suckers out there trying to be pure and chaste in body and creating all kind of distractions and anxieties for the mind, when the only thing they need to do is shut up, and be attentive, and dwell in the silence in which all things become one. Great post, friend. Good to know you are out there. Just to be on the safe side, self your rifle. Love, Pete --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > Nothing can disturb the Peace/Silence/Awareness once > established beyond a > certain point. From personal experience, I can do > almost anything and the > next moment I am immersed in this peace as if > nothing had happened. > [The only thing that had been disturbing this peace > was getting caught up > in 'my story' from time to time.] > > I am sure I could even murder someone and the next > moment, I would be in > the peace again, as if nothing had happened. My > point is that all worldly > activities are of no significance to the 'Silence'. > It makes no difference > to the 'Silence' whether you are a sinner or a > saint. After all 'you' are > just a creation of your brain cells [memory]. > > This is my 'truth'; yours, of course, could be > completely different. So > don't feel threatened and jump on me! > > Jan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2002 Report Share Posted November 8, 2002 " Your Witness, " says the defendant's lawyer. " If it pleases the court I would like to enter into evidence exhibit A, the murder weapon used to kill Little Becky-Sue Adams. " " Is it not true Ms. Sultan, that you violently entered the Adam's Family house in No-Place Tennessee, tormented, raped, and killed 14 year old becky-sue and then sat down in a deep state of meditation? " The prosecutor asks. " Yes that's true, but ultimately nothing happened for the " I " that caused the Becky-Sue noun so much suffering and the I that sat down to meditate never really existed at all. In fact the entire event occurred in a conceptual space-time- linguistic matrix not conducive to realizing truth. You should abide in the silence more often mr. prosecutor. " " Then you admit your own guilt? " " There is no me to be guilty or innocent mr. prosecutor. " replies Ms. Sultan. " the convention that we call I does not exist, so how could it be guilty or innocent? I am Buddha Mr. Prosecutor. " " You have a point Ms. Sultan, I think I will go home and murder that bitch I call my wife. " " By all means Mr. Prosecutor and say hello to her for me while you're doing it. " " Thank you so much for your wisdom Ms Sultan. " " This is ridiculous, " the great judge bellows. " You are not Buddha. You are one who knows Buddha's path but does not walk it. The anger you felt toward little Becky-sue before murdering her was a result of your own ignorance. If you walked the path you would realize that those who are ignorant require compassionate understanding, not wrath and folly. Do not use the silence to justify your actions. For in the silence there is no action. Have compassion for your own illusory self, but do not write off the things that it does or does not do. And while you are getting raped by prison guards in jail Ms. Sultan just remember that after they are finished with you they may resume their abide in the great silence. You are like the guru who rapes the little girls of the families that come to live with him in the ashram. But its ok because although he is a wise being who has some inkling of truth he is still human and has desires. The apparent world is not to be ignored. That would be ignorance wouldn't it. Its nature is to be understood. While you are playing cat and mouse with your thoughts try to be the best person you can be in the apparant world as well. Before you have sex, play cat and mouse with that thought. Before you take a drink, play cat and mouse with that thought. Before you get angry play cat and mouse with that thought. Maybe the cat will win. Thinking himself angry for no reason at all and apologizing for it, m. _______________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2002 Report Share Posted November 8, 2002 Pete, Great post! Another example of why you are my Humor Guru. Can I post this to SufiMystic? I think they need this over there. -Bill pete seesaw [seesaw1us] Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:59 AM Nisargadatta Re: Nothing can disturb the Peace! - Jan Hi Jan, I was going to jump on you, but couldn't find you. Would my jumping down your throat bother you? I would imagine not, since you reckon murder would not. I figure this was just a figure of speech, or joke, because murder always have a self seeking motive, even if it's a psychotic one, and what self seeking motive could anyone have, if dwelling in this deep peace/silence/awareness of no-self? But, i know what you mean. Sex, drinking, even anger, doesn't seem to separate me from that. It always comes back as if i, it, could do no wrong. I attribute this to my lack of believe in any idea of selfhood to which any actions or thoughts could attach themselves. It makes me feel sorry for those poor suckers out there trying to be pure and chaste in body and creating all kind of distractions and anxieties for the mind, when the only thing they need to do is shut up, and be attentive, and dwell in the silence in which all things become one. Great post, friend. Good to know you are out there. Just to be on the safe side, self your rifle. Love, Pete --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > Nothing can disturb the Peace/Silence/Awareness once > established beyond a > certain point. From personal experience, I can do > almost anything and the > next moment I am immersed in this peace as if > nothing had happened. > [The only thing that had been disturbing this peace > was getting caught up > in 'my story' from time to time.] > > I am sure I could even murder someone and the next > moment, I would be in > the peace again, as if nothing had happened. My > point is that all worldly > activities are of no significance to the 'Silence'. > It makes no difference > to the 'Silence' whether you are a sinner or a > saint. After all 'you' are > just a creation of your brain cells [memory]. > > This is my 'truth'; yours, of course, could be > completely different. So > don't feel threatened and jump on me! > > Jan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2002 Report Share Posted November 8, 2002 Bill, Glad you like it. Post away. The last line should read sell your rifle, not self your rifle. Typos could be very interesting sometimes. Pete --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > Pete, > > Great post! Another example of why you > are my Humor Guru. > > Can I post this to SufiMystic? > I think they need this over there. > > -Bill > > > > pete seesaw [seesaw1us] > Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:59 AM > Nisargadatta > Re: Nothing can disturb the > Peace! - Jan > > > Hi Jan, > I was going to jump on you, but couldn't find you. > > > Would my jumping down your throat bother you? I > would > imagine not, since you reckon murder would not. > > I figure this was just a figure of speech, or joke, > because murder always have a self seeking motive, > even > if it's a psychotic one, and what self seeking > motive > could anyone have, if dwelling in this deep > peace/silence/awareness of no-self? > > But, i know what you mean. Sex, drinking, even > anger, > doesn't seem to separate me from that. It always > comes > back as if i, it, could do no wrong. > > I attribute this to my lack of believe in any idea > of > selfhood to which any actions or thoughts could > attach > themselves. It makes me feel sorry for those poor > suckers out there trying to be pure and chaste in > body > and creating all kind of distractions and anxieties > for the mind, when the only thing they need to do is > shut up, and be attentive, and dwell in the silence > in > which all things become one. > > Great post, friend. Good to know you are out there. > > Just to be on the safe side, self your rifle. > > Love, > Pete > > --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > > Nothing can disturb the Peace/Silence/Awareness > once > > established beyond a > > certain point. From personal experience, I can do > > almost anything and the > > next moment I am immersed in this peace as if > > nothing had happened. > > [The only thing that had been disturbing this > peace > > was getting caught up > > in 'my story' from time to time.] > > > > I am sure I could even murder someone and the next > > moment, I would be in > > the peace again, as if nothing had happened. My > > point is that all worldly > > activities are of no significance to the > 'Silence'. > > It makes no difference > > to the 'Silence' whether you are a sinner or a > > saint. After all 'you' are > > just a creation of your brain cells [memory]. > > > > This is my 'truth'; yours, of course, could be > > completely different. So > > don't feel threatened and jump on me! > > > > Jan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2002 Report Share Posted November 8, 2002 --- < wrote: > your thoughts try to be the best person you can be > in the apparent world as > well. Mark, you are a jewel. What you said above is very true. There is no reason to treat other people as non-existing an ignore their suffering. If someone who thought herself enlightened would cause needless suffering to others that would only prove her enlightenment was an imaginary one. Lack of remorse, indifference and calmness regarding harm to others is more the trademark of psychopath than a sage. But don't take Sultan literally, he was just using an extreme example probably for shock effect. I hope! > Before you have sex, play cat and mouse with > that thought. Before > you take a drink, play cat and mouse with that > thought. Before you get > angry play cat and mouse with that thought. Maybe > the cat will win. > > Thinking himself angry for no reason at all and > apologizing for it, Now here I disagree with you. The body has certain needs which are natural, but that are considered sinful by moralistic fanatics. Nothing wrong with pleasure as long as we don't get addicted and demand it all the time. Playing the ascetic only disturb the mind and feeds the ego. Anger is another natural reaction and it vanishes quickly as long as is not fed by thinking. It's only the ego that demands perfection. A liberated being has no wish to be, or appear virtuousor virtueous. He/she is free and spontaneous and could care less what image he presents to the world. Pete U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch./u2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2002 Report Share Posted November 8, 2002 Thanks Pete. I suspect your favorite guru is Nisargadatta too? Love Jan At 08.11.02-04:12 PM Pete wrote: >Re: Nothing can disturb the Peace! - Jan > > Hi Jan, >I was going to jump on you, but couldn't find you. > >Would my jumping down your throat bother you? I would >imagine not, since you reckon murder would not. > >I figure this was just a figure of speech, or joke, >because murder always have a self seeking motive, even >if it's a psychotic one, and what self seeking motive >could anyone have, if dwelling in this deep >peace/silence/awareness of no-self? > >But, i know what you mean. Sex, drinking, even anger, >doesn't seem to separate me from that. It always comes >back as if i, it, could do no wrong. > >I attribute this to my lack of believe in any idea of >selfhood to which any actions or thoughts could attach >themselves. It makes me feel sorry for those poor >suckers out there trying to be pure and chaste in body >and creating all kind of distractions and anxieties >for the mind, when the only thing they need to do is >shut up, and be attentive, and dwell in the silence in >which all things become one. > >Great post, friend. Good to know you are out there. > >Just to be on the safe side, sell your rifle. > >Love, >Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 > >Lack of remorse, indifference and calmness regarding >harm to others is more the trademark of > psychopath than a sage. But don't take Sultan >literally, he was just using an extreme example >probably for shock effect. I hope! > > > > Before you have sex, play cat and mouse with > > that thought. Before > > you take a drink, play cat and mouse with that > > thought. Before you get > > angry play cat and mouse with that thought. Maybe > > the cat will win. > > > > Thinking himself angry for no reason at all and > > apologizing for it, > >Now here I disagree with you. The body has certain >needs which are natural, but that are considered >sinful by moralistic fanatics. > >Nothing wrong with pleasure as long as we don't get >addicted and demand it all the time. Playing the >ascetic only disturb the mind and feeds the ego. >Anger is another natural reaction and it vanishes >quickly as long as is not fed by thinking. It's only >the ego that demands perfection. A liberated being >has no wish to be, or appear virtuousor virtueous. >He/she is free and spontaneous and could care less >what image he presents to the world. > >Pete > Well first of all I'd like to apologize, I thought Mr. sultan was a Ms. Second, the great peace is disturbed if one moment you are killing someone and the next moment you are in the peace again. Thats a break in um enlightenment for lack of a better phrase. Third I'm not saying that you shouldn't drink, have sex or get angry. Omitting drinking, I do all those things and discouraging others from doing so would make me a hypocrite. What I'm saying is that before you do those things, spend a few minutes trying to figure out where those natural desires for a body that doesn't really exist come from. So yes, I agree with you conventionally, but I would like to amend your statement to say that there is nothing wrong with pleasure as long as we aren't addicted and demand it all the time...and as long as our pleasure does not cause harm to ourselves and to other beings. Ultimately of course, any and all so-called natural desires arise from ignorance and therefore cause suffering. And since the way to end suffering is by rooting out the cause of desire, it might be a good idea to start with eliminating a few of our natural desires. Eternally trying to quit smoking, m. _______________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 --- < wrote: > Third I'm not saying that you shouldn't drink, have > sex or get angry. > Omitting drinking, I do all those things and > discouraging others from doing > so would make me a hypocrite. What I'm saying is > that before you do those > things, spend a few minutes trying to figure out > where those natural desires > for a body that doesn't really exist come from. )) Let's be consistent's be consistant here, how can you say bodies don't exist in one paragraph and object to murder in another? Did you think Sultan was talking about murdering souls? Bodies do exist and you know it because you just admitted you make love, hopefully, to a human body. Not that I would put you down for having sex with plants, or furniture if that's what turns you on. Just a little joke. > > Ultimately of course, any and all so-called natural > desires arise from > ignorance and therefore cause suffering. And since > the way to end suffering > is by rooting out the cause of desire, it might be a > good idea to start with > eliminating a few of our natural desires. No my friend, the cause of suffering is not natural desires. The cause of suffering is the grasping mind. If I'm hungry that's just an empty feeling in my belly, it's not suffering. If I were a glutton and were a hundred pound overweigh and couldn't take my mind off my empty belly, then, that would be suffering, but not caused by hunger, but my lack of mind control. Natural desires can't be eliminated. They can only be satisfy, ignored or controled. > > Eternally trying to quit smoking, Ah see, smoking or drinking is not a natural desire, we could get rid of those if we want. I only drink when offered a drink by a friend and only one or two. Just not to be more holy than thou. If you really want to quit you will, is just a matter of how badly yo want to do it. Pete > m. > > > _______________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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