Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Before I discovered non-duality I was a loner. I was even laughed off one sufi group for my all inclusive views. I came across Nisargadatta and Ramana on the net but I dismissed them as 'Hindu'. After coming across more references to them on non-duality salon, I decided to be brave and venture into a bit of 'Hinduism'. Thats when I discovered that Nisargadatta in particular hardly mentioned Hindu beliefs. And more importantly his writings explained all my mystical experiences. Like you, I don't think I have come across a passage that I disagreed with. Also the more I have progressed and experienced on this path ... the less other gurus have seemed relevant. As for Nisargadatta, I have found him waiting patiently on the mountain, as if saying ... " You made it this far? Good! See you on the next ridge. " On this list those who are here casually, I suggest to them to read and try to understand Nisargadatta one more time. I guarantee you, you will discover something new in his writings. Pete wrote: You got that right! One day, years ago, i was browsing through the Hindu philosophy section of the public library of the great City of Chicago (a little plug for my beloved former hometown)when I stumbled on a little book, " Seeds of Consciousness " it looked kind of dingy and the picture of Maharaj on its back cover wasn't the best, but I opened it at random ( like i always do when in doubt if I should give a book a try) and I read something like " when you die all you can call a self is finished " or words to that effect. Hum, that sounds different! I thought. I took the book out. By the time i finished it, I thought, my God, I could have written that book myself! I have read all his books and hardly ever disagreed with anything he had to say. Sometimes when I'm looking at something with great interest I have the weir feeling that Maharaj's crazy eyes are staring out of my face. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Hi Jan, SNM is not everybody. He himself used to say that. He gives only the bare facts, which are kind of austere, even grim. No sugar on top. If one is on the edge, he is a great one to give one the push, but for one looking for Mystical Disneyland his book are depressing reading indeed. To those people he used to say: " You go and do Bhajans. " Seekers as you know go through stages. Most of us enter through the candy store looking for treats, after we are hook on the treats, here come the tricks. After that, many rush for the exit door. Others remain, but expend many years begging for treats and trying to avoid the tricks. They become worshipers of this, or that Divine Figure. They trip on love and bliss, and never move on to the churning room were guys like maharaj take the wool of their eyes. Nice to meet another loner. " The fly of the Alone to the Alone " Uh? Plotinus, I think. Pete --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > Before I discovered non-duality I was a loner. I was > even laughed off one > sufi group for my all inclusive views. > I came across Nisargadatta and Ramana on the net but > I dismissed them as > 'Hindu'. After coming across more references to them > on non-duality salon, > I decided to be brave and venture into a bit of > 'Hinduism'. > Thats when I discovered that Nisargadatta in > particular hardly mentioned > Hindu beliefs. And more importantly his writings > explained all my mystical > experiences. Like you, I don't think I have come > across a passage that I > disagreed with. > Also the more I have progressed and experienced on > this path ... the less > other gurus have seemed relevant. As for > Nisargadatta, I have found him > waiting patiently on the mountain, as if saying ... > " You made it this far? > Good! See you on the next ridge. " > > On this list those who are here casually, I suggest > to them to read and try > to understand Nisargadatta one more time. I > guarantee you, you will > discover something new in his writings. > > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch./u2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Hi Pete, You are right. It is sometimes frustrating to quote Nisargadatta and finding very few understanding what is pointed at! Most people are so dualistic. It is so difficult to let go of the stories ... everyone wants the bad guys to be punished! Love Jan At 09.11.02-06:48 PM pete seesaw wrote: >Hi Jan, > >SNM is not for everybody. He himself used to say that. He >gives only the bare facts, which are kind of austere, >even grim. No sugar on top. If one is on the edge, he >is a great one to give one the push, but for one >looking for Mystical Disneyland his book are >depressing reading indeed. To those people he used to >say: " You go and do Bhajans. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 .... everyone wants > the bad guys to be punished! > > Love > Jan > You lost me here. Please explain. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 At 09.11.02-08:15 PM seesaw1us wrote: > ... everyone wants > > the bad guys to be punished! > > > > Love > > Jan > > > >You lost me here. Please explain. > >Pete I talked to some people about non-duality. The first reaction was ... you mean the bad guys will not be punished? [in other words they themselves will not be rewarded in heaven for their suffering, for the ill that others have done to them?] You see people do not want to give up their stories. That is why " good guy-bad guy " type stories are so popular. That is why the concept of heaven and hell is so acceptable. What do you think most peoples day dreams are about? I still sometimes get trapped into day dreams where I have the power to right wrongs. Hang all the bad politicians and rescue the suffering masses. [You may understand it better if you live in Africa ... Here there is a great need for a superman or a spiderman! ... even if it is only in a day dream.] My past or my future do not bother me. It is the suffering that I see around me. It is like a magnet ... to escape from this 'story' is very difficult. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you born there? Pete --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > At 09.11.02-08:15 PM seesaw1us wrote: > > ... everyone wants > > > the bad guys to be punished! > > > > > > Love > > > Jan > > > > > > >You lost me here. Please explain. > > > >Pete > > I talked to some people about non-duality. The first > reaction was ... you > mean the bad guys will not be punished? [in other > words they themselves > will not be rewarded in heaven for their suffering, > for the ill that others > have done to them?] You see people do not want to > give up their stories. > That is why " good guy-bad guy " type stories are so > popular. That is why the > concept of heaven and hell is so acceptable. > > What do you think most peoples day dreams are about? > I still sometimes get > trapped into day dreams where I have the power to > right wrongs. Hang all > the bad politicians and rescue the suffering masses. > [You may understand it > better if you live in Africa ... Here there is a > great need for a superman > or a spiderman! ... even if it is only in a day > dream.] > > My past or my future do not bother me. It is the > suffering that I see > around me. It is like a magnet ... to escape from > this 'story' is very > difficult. > > Jan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 At 09.11.02-11:45 PM pete seesaw wrote: >I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you born >there? > >Pete I am a Tanzanian by birth, my wife and kids are Kenyans ... all my grandparents were born in India. It gets a little bit confusing sometimes, specially as I am Muslim by birth and my wife is Christian! Luckily both of us do not practice our religions. [My kids get frustrated sometimes, they ask me if they are Christians or Muslims and if they are white or brown or black!] Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Hi Jan, Thanks for your answer. It was a stupid question anyway, and it illustrates the fallacy of knowledge. Now I imagine I know you better, when in reality I know you less because before there was no image attached to your messages, and now there is one, which of course, has no reference whatsoever to any reality. Pete --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > At 09.11.02-11:45 PM pete seesaw wrote: > >I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you born > >there? > > > >Pete > > I am a Tanzanian by birth, > my wife and kids are Kenyans ... > all my grandparents were born in India. > > It gets a little bit confusing sometimes, specially > as I am Muslim by birth > and my wife is Christian! Luckily both of us do not > practice our religions. > [My kids get frustrated sometimes, they ask me if > they are Christians or > Muslims and if they are white or brown or black!] > > Jan > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Cultural differences can be very important in communication. I think that kind of information can be helpful. What really is dangerous -- in my opinion -- is extrapolating from what someone says to come up with a fantasy of " what kind of spiritual level " they are at. -Bill pete seesaw [seesaw1us] Hi Jan, Thanks for your answer. It was a stupid question anyway, and it illustrates the fallacy of knowledge. Now I imagine I know you better, when in reality I know you less because before there was no image attached to your messages, and now there is one, which of course, has no reference whatsoever to any reality. Pete --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > At 09.11.02-11:45 PM pete seesaw wrote: > >I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you born > >there? > > > >Pete > > I am a Tanzanian by birth, > my wife and kids are Kenyans ... > all my grandparents were born in India. > > It gets a little bit confusing sometimes, specially > as I am Muslim by birth > and my wife is Christian! Luckily both of us do not > practice our religions. > [My kids get frustrated sometimes, they ask me if > they are Christians or > Muslims and if they are white or brown or black!] > > Jan > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > Cultural differences can be very important in > communication. I think that kind of information > can be helpful. What really is dangerous -- in > my opinion -- is extrapolating from what someone > says to come up with a fantasy of " what kind of > spiritual level " they are at. What can I tell you? it's a dangerous world. Pete > -Bill > > pete seesaw [seesaw1us] > Hi Jan, > > Thanks for your answer. It was a stupid question > anyway, and it illustrates the fallacy of knowledge. > > Now I imagine I know you better, when in reality I > know you less because before there was no image > attached to your messages, and now there is one, > which > of course, has no reference whatsoever to any > reality. > > > Pete > > --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > > At 09.11.02-11:45 PM pete seesaw wrote: > > >I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you > born > > >there? > > > > > >Pete > > > > I am a Tanzanian by birth, > > my wife and kids are Kenyans ... > > all my grandparents were born in India. > > > > It gets a little bit confusing sometimes, > specially > > as I am Muslim by birth > > and my wife is Christian! Luckily both of us do > not > > practice our religions. > > [My kids get frustrated sometimes, they ask me if > > they are Christians or > > Muslims and if they are white or brown or black!] > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 No, Pete, it is our minds that are dangerous. If we believe them, that is. -Bill pete seesaw [seesaw1us] Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:43 PM Nisargadatta RE: Re: Nisargadatta - Pete --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > Cultural differences can be very important in > communication. I think that kind of information > can be helpful. What really is dangerous -- in > my opinion -- is extrapolating from what someone > says to come up with a fantasy of " what kind of > spiritual level " they are at. What can I tell you? it's a dangerous world. Pete > -Bill > > pete seesaw [seesaw1us] > Hi Jan, > > Thanks for your answer. It was a stupid question > anyway, and it illustrates the fallacy of knowledge. > > Now I imagine I know you better, when in reality I > know you less because before there was no image > attached to your messages, and now there is one, > which > of course, has no reference whatsoever to any > reality. > > > Pete > > --- Jan Sultan <swork wrote: > > At 09.11.02-11:45 PM pete seesaw wrote: > > >I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you > born > > >there? > > > > > >Pete > > > > I am a Tanzanian by birth, > > my wife and kids are Kenyans ... > > all my grandparents were born in India. > > > > It gets a little bit confusing sometimes, > specially > > as I am Muslim by birth > > and my wife is Christian! Luckily both of us do > not > > practice our religions. > > [My kids get frustrated sometimes, they ask me if > > they are Christians or > > Muslims and if they are white or brown or black!] > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Nisargadatta, pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote: > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > Cultural differences can be very important in > > communication. I think that kind of information > > can be helpful. What really is dangerous -- in > > my opinion -- is extrapolating from what someone > > says to come up with a fantasy of " what kind of > > spiritual level " they are at. > > What can I tell you? it's a dangerous world. > > Pete Sho' nuff! It guarantees that no one here gets out alive. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 The one who believes the mind, is produced by the mind. What produces the mind, cannot be known by the mind. -- Dan Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > No, Pete, it is our minds that are dangerous. > If we believe them, that is. > > -Bill > > > > pete seesaw [seesaw1us] > Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:43 PM > Nisargadatta > RE: Re: Nisargadatta - Pete > > > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > Cultural differences can be very important in > > communication. I think that kind of information > > can be helpful. What really is dangerous -- in > > my opinion -- is extrapolating from what someone > > says to come up with a fantasy of " what kind of > > spiritual level " they are at. > > What can I tell you? it's a dangerous world. > > Pete > > > > -Bill > > > > pete seesaw [seesaw1us] > > Hi Jan, > > > > Thanks for your answer. It was a stupid question > > anyway, and it illustrates the fallacy of knowledge. > > > > Now I imagine I know you better, when in reality I > > know you less because before there was no image > > attached to your messages, and now there is one, > > which > > of course, has no reference whatsoever to any > > reality. > > > > > > Pete > > > > --- Jan Sultan <swork@m...> wrote: > > > At 09.11.02-11:45 PM pete seesaw wrote: > > > >I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you > > born > > > >there? > > > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > I am a Tanzanian by birth, > > > my wife and kids are Kenyans ... > > > all my grandparents were born in India. > > > > > > It gets a little bit confusing sometimes, > > specially > > > as I am Muslim by birth > > > and my wife is Christian! Luckily both of us do > > not > > > practice our religions. > > > [My kids get frustrated sometimes, they ask me if > > > they are Christians or > > > Muslims and if they are white or brown or black!] > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 So does the mind exist? Or is it a chimera. A ghost. Dragging its chains.... -Bill dan330033 [dan330033] Sunday, November 10, 2002 2:25 PM Nisargadatta Re: Nisargadatta - Pete The one who believes the mind, is produced by the mind. What produces the mind, cannot be known by the mind. -- Dan Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > No, Pete, it is our minds that are dangerous. > If we believe them, that is. > > -Bill > > > > pete seesaw [seesaw1us] > Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:43 PM > Nisargadatta > RE: Re: Nisargadatta - Pete > > > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > Cultural differences can be very important in > > communication. I think that kind of information > > can be helpful. What really is dangerous -- in > > my opinion -- is extrapolating from what someone > > says to come up with a fantasy of " what kind of > > spiritual level " they are at. > > What can I tell you? it's a dangerous world. > > Pete > > > > -Bill > > > > pete seesaw [seesaw1us] > > Hi Jan, > > > > Thanks for your answer. It was a stupid question > > anyway, and it illustrates the fallacy of knowledge. > > > > Now I imagine I know you better, when in reality I > > know you less because before there was no image > > attached to your messages, and now there is one, > > which > > of course, has no reference whatsoever to any > > reality. > > > > > > Pete > > > > --- Jan Sultan <swork@m...> wrote: > > > At 09.11.02-11:45 PM pete seesaw wrote: > > > >I see. Where in Africa do you live? Where you > > born > > > >there? > > > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > I am a Tanzanian by birth, > > > my wife and kids are Kenyans ... > > > all my grandparents were born in India. > > > > > > It gets a little bit confusing sometimes, > > specially > > > as I am Muslim by birth > > > and my wife is Christian! Luckily both of us do > > not > > > practice our religions. > > > [My kids get frustrated sometimes, they ask me if > > > they are Christians or > > > Muslims and if they are white or brown or black!] > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > So does the mind exist? > Or is it a chimera. A ghost. > Dragging its chains.... > > -Bill Clank! It's like a ghost trying to catch a train. It can never quite get there, but by trying to get it, mistakes that effort as an existence. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Good one! Definitely hit my pleasure center (the one in my brain that is...) -Bill dan330033 [dan330033] Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:51 PM Nisargadatta Re: Nisargadatta - Pete Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > So does the mind exist? > Or is it a chimera. A ghost. > Dragging its chains.... > > -Bill Clank! It's like a ghost trying to catch a train. It can never quite get there, but by trying to get it, mistakes that effort as an existence. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta, pete seesaw > <seesaw1us> wrote: > > > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > > Cultural differences can be very important in > > > communication. I think that kind of information > > > can be helpful. What really is dangerous -- in > > > my opinion -- is extrapolating from what someone > > > says to come up with a fantasy of " what kind of > > > spiritual level " they are at. > > > > What can I tell you? it's a dangerous world. > > > > Pete > > Sho' nuff! > > It guarantees that no one here gets out alive. > > -- Dan Except those who believe in subtle bodies, that is. Pete U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch./u2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> > wrote: > > So does the mind exist? > > Or is it a chimera. A ghost. > > Dragging its chains.... > > > > -Bill > > Clank! > > It's like a ghost trying to catch a train. > > It can never quite get there, but > by trying to get it, mistakes > that effort as an existence. > > -- Dan > Honestly, that sounds so good. But you know me, I would painmustachetach on the Mona Lisa. What's making the effort? In your opinion that is Pete U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch./u2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 > > > > > > What can I tell you? it's a dangerous world. > > > > > > Pete > > > > Sho' nuff! > > > > It guarantees that no one here gets out alive. > > > > -- Dan > > Except those who believe in subtle bodies, that is. > > Pete Those come apart easily enough, once you put them in a bathtub filled with subtle lye... -- Ramano Mahasoprano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Nisargadatta, pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote: > --- dan330033 <dan330033> wrote: > > Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> > > wrote: > > > So does the mind exist? > > > Or is it a chimera. A ghost. > > > Dragging its chains.... > > > > > > -Bill > > > > Clank! > > > > It's like a ghost trying to catch a train. > > > > It can never quite get there, but > > by trying to get it, mistakes > > that effort as an existence. > > > > -- Dan > > > Honestly, that sounds so good. But you know me, > I would painmustachetach on the Mona Lisa. > > What's making the effort? In your opinion that is > > Pete Contraction of energy, validating the belief/perception of having its own existence, by its contracting. Which gives me my opinion, in my opinion. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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