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(This post is forwarded from a post on the

'Julius It Forum' , posted by 'theman'.)

 

 

Spider, Spider, on the wall..........

 

 

Master, how did it all start?

 

It didn't.

 

I know I am asking, 'how did the impossible happen', but

*something* seems to have happened. How do I begin to See or

Know Truth?

 

Shall we begin by beginning?

 

That seems to be a good place to begin, in the beginning.

 

Just so. In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all.

 

So how did *it* , whatever *it* is, begin?

 

It didn't. :))

 

:(

 

If you are sitting in space, deep space with nothing else

around you and a spider drops down in front of you on a strand

of

web, what is that spider to you?

 

It is everything. And it is also nothing.

 

Explain.

 

If there is nothing at all then whatever appears is everything.

And if it is the *only* thing then it is nothing because it has

nothing to relate to and things can only *be* when in relation to

something else.

 

Explain more.

 

That's all.

 

But you still have two things.

 

I don't see this.

 

You still have *you* who sees the spider, unless you *are* the

spider.

 

?

 

Without you would there be a spider?

 

No. I give the spider existence by saying the spider is not me.

 

Just so. So everything is dependent upon you. No you, no spider.

 

But doesn't the spider have independent existence regardless

of me. Doesn't my brother have independent existence from me?

When I die he doesn't die does he? Am I the Cause of it all?

 

Let's begin again. In the beginning there is nothing, no thing at

all, and then a spider shows up. Let's call the spider a thought

this

time and say, 'In the beginning a thought showed up. "

 

Okay. I can see that. A spider is a thought but it seems that the

spider, which has form, is different from a thought.

 

In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all, and then a

thought showed up. Now, who did this thought show up for?

 

For me obviously.

 

In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all, *including

you*, a thought showed up, now who did this thought show up

for?

 

I'm beginning to see something. I have been assuming that I

exist. When we began and you asked me about the spider I

assumed

a " me " , an " I " . This has been a given for me and I don't question

it.

But as you keep pointing out, in the beginning there was nothing,

nothing at all, not even me. I continually don't *Hear* this. I

assume myself. Now what I hear you saying is that there *really*

was no thing at all. Really! And if there Really is nothing, no thing

at all then none of this is happening. Nothing *can* happen! I

keep insisting something can come from nothing.

 

You are now listening to me. If there was nothing, no thing at all,

and something showed up, is that possible?

 

I guess not but Master it *must* be possible because

*something*, some *thing*, showed up.

 

Why do you say that?

 

Because I am saying it and I would not be saying something if

nothing was happening. It would be impossible. How can the

impossible happen?

 

It didn't. :)

 

But Master, I am no further along toward the Truth than I was

when we started. No matter what we say I see us as saying

something and given that, something is happening. I hear the

birds. I

see the sky. I see you.

 

Of course you do. Of course you do. But do you think that I see

you? Am I here?

 

Of course you are. You are speaking with me, at least I assume

you are. I assume you are sitting here speaking with me. If you

aren't, what's happening?

 

In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all. And then a

thought appeared.

 

And all of this is the thought???

 

This is the thought. :) This is the illusion.

 

My God! Every thing is happening now. My birth, death and

middle are all happening now.

 

This thought does not move. It is " hanging " in the void like a

spider on a strand and you cannot take your eyes from it. The

strand is projected from you like a fishing line and on the end of

it is the spider and everything else. You don't see that the strand

is

connected to you. You are dazzled by your own thought. It is

everything to you. It is the Present Moment. It is hanging,

pristine-like in Nothing, like a drop of dew in the morning sun

and you eternally give it movement and life by seeing your own

reflection in it. You are doing it all. And each strand you project

has a jewel like image which reflects all the other strands. I too

am your projected thought. Reel me in and be home. :))

 

????!!!!!

 

You have separated yourself from your own reflection. You are

the void, the Nothing at All upon which you write your creations.

You

are the blank slate, the Awareness upon which creation is writ.

You

step back, separate, and admire and are in awe of your own

Power.

At the moment of separation you create two. You split like a cell

into two and relationship is formed. You play with your own

creation/image by separating yourself from it and become a part

of

your own creation. And then you stop.

 

And then.......

 

In the beginning there is nothing, no thing at all. And then a

thought appears and you say, " What is that? " . And it

begins...........again...........and again......

 

How can I stop it forever?

 

Know that there is no " how " . You cannot stop that which never

started. You cannot change the impossible and make it real. You

do

not believe or know that your reality is only an illusion. When you

know that you will Know Peace. The Peace that never went

anywhere.

 

Who will know this?

 

Who's asking? :))

 

 

..

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Great! I'll try to remember that when passing a kidney

stone that could be a help. Just kidding! I truly

love it and totally agree. Thanks

 

Pete

 

--- el_wells_2003 <elwells8 wrote:

> (This post is forwarded from a post on the

> 'Julius It Forum' , posted by 'theman'.)

>

>

> Spider, Spider, on the wall..........

>

>

> Master, how did it all start?

>

> It didn't.

>

> I know I am asking, 'how did the impossible happen',

> but

> *something* seems to have happened. How do I begin

> to See or

> Know Truth?

>

> Shall we begin by beginning?

>

> That seems to be a good place to begin, in the

> beginning.

>

> Just so. In the beginning there was nothing, no

> thing at all.

>

> So how did *it* , whatever *it* is, begin?

>

> It didn't. :))

>

> :(

>

> If you are sitting in space, deep space with nothing

> else

> around you and a spider drops down in front of you

> on a strand

> of

> web, what is that spider to you?

>

> It is everything. And it is also nothing.

>

> Explain.

>

> If there is nothing at all then whatever appears is

> everything.

> And if it is the *only* thing then it is nothing

> because it has

> nothing to relate to and things can only *be* when

> in relation to

> something else.

>

> Explain more.

>

> That's all.

>

> But you still have two things.

>

> I don't see this.

>

> You still have *you* who sees the spider, unless you

> *are* the

> spider.

>

> ?

>

> Without you would there be a spider?

>

> No. I give the spider existence by saying the spider

> is not me.

>

> Just so. So everything is dependent upon you. No

> you, no spider.

>

> But doesn't the spider have independent existence

> regardless

> of me. Doesn't my brother have independent existence

> from me?

> When I die he doesn't die does he? Am I the Cause of

> it all?

>

> Let's begin again. In the beginning there is

> nothing, no thing at

> all, and then a spider shows up. Let's call the

> spider a thought

> this

> time and say, 'In the beginning a thought showed

> up. "

>

> Okay. I can see that. A spider is a thought but it

> seems that the

> spider, which has form, is different from a thought.

>

>

> In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all,

> and then a

> thought showed up. Now, who did this thought show up

> for?

>

> For me obviously.

>

> In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all,

> *including

> you*, a thought showed up, now who did this thought

> show up

> for?

>

> I'm beginning to see something. I have been assuming

> that I

> exist. When we began and you asked me about the

> spider I

> assumed

> a " me " , an " I " . This has been a given for me and I

> don't question

> it.

> But as you keep pointing out, in the beginning there

> was nothing,

> nothing at all, not even me. I continually don't

> *Hear* this. I

> assume myself. Now what I hear you saying is that

> there *really*

> was no thing at all. Really! And if there Really is

> nothing, no thing

> at all then none of this is happening. Nothing *can*

> happen! I

> keep insisting something can come from nothing.

>

> You are now listening to me. If there was nothing,

> no thing at all,

> and something showed up, is that possible?

>

> I guess not but Master it *must* be possible because

>

> *something*, some *thing*, showed up.

>

> Why do you say that?

>

> Because I am saying it and I would not be saying

> something if

> nothing was happening. It would be impossible. How

> can the

> impossible happen?

>

> It didn't. :)

>

> But Master, I am no further along toward the Truth

> than I was

> when we started. No matter what we say I see us as

> saying

> something and given that, something is happening. I

> hear the

> birds. I

> see the sky. I see you.

>

> Of course you do. Of course you do. But do you think

> that I see

> you? Am I here?

>

> Of course you are. You are speaking with me, at

> least I assume

> you are. I assume you are sitting here speaking with

> me. If you

> aren't, what's happening?

>

> In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all.

> And then a

> thought appeared.

>

> And all of this is the thought???

>

> This is the thought. :) This is the illusion.

>

> My God! Every thing is happening now. My birth,

> death and

> middle are all happening now.

>

> This thought does not move. It is " hanging " in the

> void like a

> spider on a strand and you cannot take your eyes

> from it. The

> strand is projected from you like a fishing line and

> on the end of

> it is the spider and everything else. You don't see

> that the strand

> is

> connected to you. You are dazzled by your own

> thought. It is

> everything to you. It is the Present Moment. It is

> hanging,

> pristine-like in Nothing, like a drop of dew in the

> morning sun

> and you eternally give it movement and life by

> seeing your own

> reflection in it. You are doing it all. And each

> strand you project

> has a jewel like image which reflects all the other

> strands. I too

> am your projected thought. Reel me in and be home.

> :))

>

> ????!!!!!

>

> You have separated yourself from your own

> reflection.

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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Interesting.

Toward the end it says:

" You are the void, the Nothing at All

upon which you write your creations.

You are the blank slate, the Awareness

upon which creation is writ. "

 

Here clearly Awareness is being equated with

nothing. So everywhere nothing is used awareness

could be substituted.

 

Now, I see a subtle difference between awareness

and nothing. Awareness has a quality of subjectivity

that nothing in itself seems not to have. I mean this

not as a criticism of the piece. I suggest that the

'spider' -- which the piece suggest is some primal

thought -- is actually itself the *concept* of nothing,

where awareness is the *being* of nothing. This concept

of nothing is the original spark of consciousness

arising in the primordial unconscous awareness.

 

Re:

<<

This thought does not move. It is " hanging " in the void like a

spider on a strand and you cannot take your eyes from it.

>>

But there is apparent movement. The appearance of movement

seems not to be explained by the piece. Suggestions anyone?

 

I find this 'spider on the wall' piece quite fascinating.

Thank you for posting it El.

 

-Bill

 

 

 

el_wells_2003 [elwells8]

Sunday, November 24, 2002 3:37 PM

Nisargadatta

Spider, Spider, on the wall..........

 

 

(This post is forwarded from a post on the

'Julius It Forum' , posted by 'theman'.)

 

 

Spider, Spider, on the wall..........

 

 

Master, how did it all start?

 

It didn't.

 

I know I am asking, 'how did the impossible happen', but

*something* seems to have happened. How do I begin to See or

Know Truth?

 

Shall we begin by beginning?

 

That seems to be a good place to begin, in the beginning.

 

Just so. In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all.

 

So how did *it* , whatever *it* is, begin?

 

It didn't. :))

 

:(

 

If you are sitting in space, deep space with nothing else

around you and a spider drops down in front of you on a strand

of

web, what is that spider to you?

 

It is everything. And it is also nothing.

 

Explain.

 

If there is nothing at all then whatever appears is everything.

And if it is the *only* thing then it is nothing because it has

nothing to relate to and things can only *be* when in relation to

something else.

 

Explain more.

 

That's all.

 

But you still have two things.

 

I don't see this.

 

You still have *you* who sees the spider, unless you *are* the

spider.

 

?

 

Without you would there be a spider?

 

No. I give the spider existence by saying the spider is not me.

 

Just so. So everything is dependent upon you. No you, no spider.

 

But doesn't the spider have independent existence regardless

of me. Doesn't my brother have independent existence from me?

When I die he doesn't die does he? Am I the Cause of it all?

 

Let's begin again. In the beginning there is nothing, no thing at

all, and then a spider shows up. Let's call the spider a thought

this

time and say, 'In the beginning a thought showed up. "

 

Okay. I can see that. A spider is a thought but it seems that the

spider, which has form, is different from a thought.

 

In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all, and then a

thought showed up. Now, who did this thought show up for?

 

For me obviously.

 

In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all, *including

you*, a thought showed up, now who did this thought show up

for?

 

I'm beginning to see something. I have been assuming that I

exist. When we began and you asked me about the spider I

assumed

a " me " , an " I " . This has been a given for me and I don't question

it.

But as you keep pointing out, in the beginning there was nothing,

nothing at all, not even me. I continually don't *Hear* this. I

assume myself. Now what I hear you saying is that there *really*

was no thing at all. Really! And if there Really is nothing, no thing

at all then none of this is happening. Nothing *can* happen! I

keep insisting something can come from nothing.

 

You are now listening to me. If there was nothing, no thing at all,

and something showed up, is that possible?

 

I guess not but Master it *must* be possible because

*something*, some *thing*, showed up.

 

Why do you say that?

 

Because I am saying it and I would not be saying something if

nothing was happening. It would be impossible. How can the

impossible happen?

 

It didn't. :)

 

But Master, I am no further along toward the Truth than I was

when we started. No matter what we say I see us as saying

something and given that, something is happening. I hear the

birds. I

see the sky. I see you.

 

Of course you do. Of course you do. But do you think that I see

you? Am I here?

 

Of course you are. You are speaking with me, at least I assume

you are. I assume you are sitting here speaking with me. If you

aren't, what's happening?

 

In the beginning there was nothing, no thing at all. And then a

thought appeared.

 

And all of this is the thought???

 

This is the thought. :) This is the illusion.

 

My God! Every thing is happening now. My birth, death and

middle are all happening now.

 

This thought does not move. It is " hanging " in the void like a

spider on a strand and you cannot take your eyes from it. The

strand is projected from you like a fishing line and on the end of

it is the spider and everything else. You don't see that the strand

is

connected to you. You are dazzled by your own thought. It is

everything to you. It is the Present Moment. It is hanging,

pristine-like in Nothing, like a drop of dew in the morning sun

and you eternally give it movement and life by seeing your own

reflection in it. You are doing it all. And each strand you project

has a jewel like image which reflects all the other strands. I too

am your projected thought. Reel me in and be home. :))

 

????!!!!!

 

You have separated yourself from your own reflection. You are

the void, the Nothing at All upon which you write your creations.

You

are the blank slate, the Awareness upon which creation is writ.

You

step back, separate, and admire and are in awe of your own

Power.

At the moment of separation you create two. You split like a cell

into two and relationship is formed. You play with your own

creation/image by separating yourself from it and become a part

of

your own creation. And then you stop.

 

And then.......

 

In the beginning there is nothing, no thing at all. And then a

thought appears and you say, " What is that? " . And it

begins...........again...........and again......

 

How can I stop it forever?

 

Know that there is no " how " . You cannot stop that which never

started. You cannot change the impossible and make it real. You

do

not believe or know that your reality is only an illusion. When you

know that you will Know Peace. The Peace that never went

anywhere.

 

Who will know this?

 

Who's asking? :))

 

 

..

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Hi Bill --

 

This is not nothing.

 

This is no-thing-ness, prior to any

construction of subjectivities, qualities, positions, substances.

 

This no-thing includes all apparent oppositions,

and with them the construction of observations, qualities,

positions, and substances.

 

So, when it acts, with the action comes nonaction.

 

When it gets hot, cold appears.

 

When manifesting, there is the unmanifest.

 

When dissolving, cohering is demonstrated.

 

Without beginning, all the beginnings and

endings are here.

 

In the midst of all these arising phenomena --

 

You guessed it,

Dan

 

Nisargadatta, " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote:

> Interesting.

> Toward the end it says:

> " You are the void, the Nothing at All

> upon which you write your creations.

> You are the blank slate, the Awareness

> upon which creation is writ. "

>

> Here clearly Awareness is being equated with

> nothing. So everywhere nothing is used awareness

> could be substituted.

>

> Now, I see a subtle difference between awareness

> and nothing. Awareness has a quality of subjectivity

> that nothing in itself seems not to have. I mean this

> not as a criticism of the piece. I suggest that the

> 'spider' -- which the piece suggest is some primal

> thought -- is actually itself the *concept* of nothing,

> where awareness is the *being* of nothing. This concept

> of nothing is the original spark of consciousness

> arising in the primordial unconscous awareness.

>

> Re:

> <<

> This thought does not move. It is " hanging " in the void like a

> spider on a strand and you cannot take your eyes from it.

> >>

> But there is apparent movement. The appearance of movement

> seems not to be explained by the piece. Suggestions anyone?

>

> I find this 'spider on the wall' piece quite fascinating.

> Thank you for posting it El.

>

> -Bill

>

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--- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote:

> Now, I see a subtle difference between awareness

> and nothing. Awareness has a quality of subjectivity

> that nothing in itself seems not to have.

 

You have seen nothing yet!

 

Pete

 

 

 

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