Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Whilst intellectually I can grasp Advaita and, certainly some of the statements of Nisargadatta, Ramesh and Wayne do pull me towards that Knowledge, it all evaporates when I am contact with the 'real' world. An example. On Thursday, I had accepted the fact that I was not really in control of my body and thoughts. I had read the dialogue by Ramesh on the Advaita.org website. It was the Source, or Self that was acting through this vehicle, 'David', and with similarly directed vehicles in daily life. Great! I just watched as I reacted in different ways to what others said or did and in turn to what I said or did to others. I was at peace, as whatever happened was not my doing nor even others doing. Unfortunately, the next day I tried to get a handle on my attitude that I had on the Thursday but could not restore it. I was back to being the body and alternately annoyed or pleased with whatever circumstances came my way. I did however try and remain aware of what was happening but it became more obvious that I do need to seek, that there is something lacking. I can actually see where this path can lead but there is a complete lack of faith in my own ability to keep on going. This lack of faith is the inability to get a handle on what I should or should not be doing to follow the path. In short, I am confused about what I should or should not be doing to follow the path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 We all experience moments of egolessness. These moments happen spontaneously and can't be brought on at will. The only thing we can do is to understand that it's the craving for the continuity of the state we want, which prevent its return. If you let it be, and focus your attention in understanding your own grasping, it'll come back on its own, and state longer. No state is permanent. It's the acceptance of the good and the bad which will bring freedom. Best wishes, Pete --- " sh1vashakt1 <d-mac " <d-mac wrote: > > > Whilst intellectually I can grasp Advaita and, > certainly some of > the statements of Nisargadatta, Ramesh and Wayne do > pull me towards > that Knowledge, it all evaporates when I am contact > with the 'real' > world. > > An example. On Thursday, I had accepted the fact > that I was not > really in control of my body and thoughts. I had > read the dialogue > by Ramesh on the Advaita.org website. It was the > Source, or Self > that was acting through this vehicle, 'David', and > with similarly > directed vehicles in daily life. Great! I just > watched as I reacted > in different ways to what others said or did and in > turn to what I > said or did to others. I was at peace, as whatever > happened was not > my doing nor even others doing. Unfortunately, the > next day I tried > to get a handle on my attitude that I had on the > Thursday but could > not restore it. I was back to being the body and > alternately annoyed > or pleased with whatever circumstances came my way. > I did however > try and remain aware of what was happening but it > became more obvious > that I do need to seek, that there is something > lacking. > > I can actually see where this path can lead but > there is a complete > lack of faith in my own ability to keep on going. > This lack of faith > is the inability to get a handle on what I should or > should not be > doing to follow the path. In short, I am confused > about what I > should or should not be doing to follow the path. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Pete is correct that the 'grasp' you desire can not be brought on by will, intellect or feeling. Trying to cling to a mood is futile as the mood wilts under 'contact with the world' - even if the mood was worthwhile in the first place. Thinking that you have to do something, or that you are on or need to be on a path is essentially the one and only obstacle and ironically you have placed before yourself. Of course, thinking you don't have to do anything and the 'grasp' will spontaneously strike you is about as silly as playing the state lottery as an income ploy. That is the irony - do or don't do, either way you are screwed. Fortunately, the success you are seeking is not found on the field of doing or not doing. BTW, Pete holds that 'no state is permanent' - - don't listen to him - - he's a pharisee. Shankara writes " The Atman is birthless and deathless. It neither grows or decays. It is unchangeable, eternal ... It is inwardly experienced as unbroken consciousness. " I prefer to believe Shankara, or at least I want to believe him because I like his position better (heh heh). So have the desire, and have faith - greater the accomplishment, greater is the faith necessary - but you have to check your faith in at the Door. Larry Nisargadatta , pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote: > We all experience moments of egolessness. These > moments happen spontaneously and can't be brought on > at will. The only thing we can do is to understand > that it's the craving for the continuity of the state > we want, which prevent its return. If you let it be, > and > focus your attention in understanding your own > grasping, it'll come back on its own, and state > longer. No state is permanent. It's the acceptance > of the good and the bad which will bring freedom. > > Best wishes, > > Pete > --- " sh1vashakt1 <d-mac@f...> " > <d-mac@f...> wrote: > > > > > > Whilst intellectually I can grasp Advaita and, > > certainly some of > > the statements of Nisargadatta, Ramesh and Wayne do > > pull me towards > > that Knowledge, it all evaporates when I am contact > > with the 'real' > > world. > > > > An example. On Thursday, I had accepted the fact > > that I was not > > really in control of my body and thoughts. I had > > read the dialogue > > by Ramesh on the Advaita.org website. It was the > > Source, or Self > > that was acting through this vehicle, 'David', and > > with similarly > > directed vehicles in daily life. Great! I just > > watched as I reacted > > in different ways to what others said or did and in > > turn to what I > > said or did to others. I was at peace, as whatever > > happened was not > > my doing nor even others doing. Unfortunately, the > > next day I tried > > to get a handle on my attitude that I had on the > > Thursday but could > > not restore it. I was back to being the body and > > alternately annoyed > > or pleased with whatever circumstances came my way. > > I did however > > try and remain aware of what was happening but it > > became more obvious > > that I do need to seek, that there is something > > lacking. > > > > I can actually see where this path can lead but > > there is a complete > > lack of faith in my own ability to keep on going. > > This lack of faith > > is the inability to get a handle on what I should or > > should not be > > doing to follow the path. In short, I am confused > > about what I > > should or should not be doing to follow the path. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Hi Larry, A pharisee, eh? ) That somehow brings an urge to crucify you. Just kidding. An unbroken consciousness sounds very unrealistic, almost nightmarish. Anyway, the difference from what I said and what you said, may reside in the meaning of what you call mood and i call states. Pete > BTW, Pete holds that 'no state is permanent' - - > don't listen to > him - - he's a pharisee. Shankara writes " The Atman > is birthless and > deathless. It neither grows or decays. It is > unchangeable, > eternal ... It is inwardly experienced as unbroken > consciousness. " I > prefer to believe Shankara, or at least I want to > believe him > because I like his position better (heh heh). > > So have the desire, and have faith - greater the > accomplishment, > greater is the faith necessary - but you have to > check your faith in > at the Door. > > Larry > > Nisargadatta , pete seesaw > <seesaw1us> > wrote: > > We all experience moments of egolessness. These > > moments happen spontaneously and can't be brought > on > > at will. The only thing we can do is to understand > > that it's the craving for the continuity of the > state > > we want, which prevent its return. If you let it > be, > > and > > focus your attention in understanding your own > > grasping, it'll come back on its own, and state > > longer. No state is permanent. It's the acceptance > > of the good and the bad which will bring freedom. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Pete > > --- " sh1vashakt1 <d-mac@f...> " > > <d-mac@f...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Whilst intellectually I can grasp Advaita > and, > > > certainly some of > > > the statements of Nisargadatta, Ramesh and Wayne > do > > > pull me towards > > > that Knowledge, it all evaporates when I am > contact > > > with the 'real' > > > world. > > > > > > An example. On Thursday, I had accepted the > fact > > > that I was not > > > really in control of my body and thoughts. I > had > > > read the dialogue > > > by Ramesh on the Advaita.org website. It was > the > > > Source, or Self > > > that was acting through this vehicle, 'David', > and > > > with similarly > > > directed vehicles in daily life. Great! I just > > > watched as I reacted > > > in different ways to what others said or did and > in > > > turn to what I > > > said or did to others. I was at peace, as > whatever > > > happened was not > > > my doing nor even others doing. Unfortunately, > the > > > next day I tried > > > to get a handle on my attitude that I had on the > > > Thursday but could > > > not restore it. I was back to being the body > and > > > alternately annoyed > > > or pleased with whatever circumstances came my > way. > > > I did however > > > try and remain aware of what was happening but > it > > > became more obvious > > > that I do need to seek, that there is something > > > lacking. > > > > > > I can actually see where this path can lead > but > > > there is a complete > > > lack of faith in my own ability to keep on > going. > > > This lack of faith > > > is the inability to get a handle on what I > should or > > > should not be > > > doing to follow the path. In short, I am > confused > > > about what I > > > should or should not be doing to follow the > path. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 the observer is the observed. One image, as the observer, observes dozens of other images around himself and inside himself, and he says, `I like this image, I'm going to keep it' or `I don't like that image so I'll get rid of it', but the observer himself has been put together by the various images which have come into being through reaction to various other images. So we come to a point where we can say, `The observer is also the image, only he has separated himself and observes. This observer who has come into being through various other images thinks himself permanent and between himself and the images he has created there is a division, a time interval. This creates conflict between himself and the images he believes to be the cause of his troubles. So then he says, " I must get rid of this conflict " , but the very desire to get rid of the conflict creates another image. Awareness of all this, which is real meditation, has revealed that there is a central image put together by all the other images, and the central image, the observer, is the censor, the experiencer, the evaluator, the judge who wants to conquer or subjugate the other images or destroy them altogether. The other images are the result of judgements, opinions and conclusions by the observer, and the observer is the result of all the other images - therefore the observer is the observed. J. Krishnamurti Commentaries On Living Series II Chapter 50 'Convictions--Dreams' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 This confusion too is a part of the Big Joke. Laugh at it . You will stay stuck or move on as is your fate. --- " sh1vashakt1 <d-mac " <d-mac wrote: <HR> <html><body> <tt> <BR> <BR> & nbsp; & nbsp; Whilst intellectually I can grasp Advaita and, certainly some of <BR> the statements of Nisargadatta, Ramesh and Wayne do pull me towards <BR> that Knowledge, it all evaporates when I am contact with the 'real' <BR> world.<BR> <BR> & nbsp; An example. & nbsp; On Thursday, I had accepted the fact that I was not <BR> really in control of my body and thoughts. & nbsp; I had read the dialogue <BR> by Ramesh on the Advaita.org website. & nbsp; It was the Source, or Self <BR> that was acting through this vehicle, 'David', and with similarly <BR> directed vehicles in daily life. & nbsp; Great! & nbsp; I just watched as I reacted <BR> in different ways to what others said or did and in turn to what I <BR> said or did to others. & nbsp; I was at peace, as whatever happened was not <BR> my doing nor even others doing. & nbsp; Unfortunately, the next day I tried <BR> to get a handle on my attitude that I had on the Thursday but could <BR> not restore it. & nbsp; I was back to being the body and alternately annoyed <BR> or pleased with whatever circumstances came my way. & nbsp; I did however <BR> try and remain aware of what was happening but it became more obvious <BR> that I do need to seek, that there is something lacking.<BR> <BR> & nbsp; I can actually see where this path can lead but there is a complete <BR> lack of faith in my own ability to keep on going. & nbsp; This lack of faith <BR> is the inability to get a handle on what I should or should not be <BR> doing to follow the path. & nbsp; In short, I am confused about what I <BR> should or should not be doing to follow the path.<BR> <BR> & nbsp; <BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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