Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 dear Hur, since you're asking for a more serious response, let's talk about the question first. doesn't your question assume that one has to claim one is enlightened already in order to answer this question? on these lists this is a risky claim to make since there'll always be someone who'll say, " no you are not! but i am. you're doing it all wrong and this is how you do it... " ******** i am not claiming that i am enlightened; i am too young for that and i think i have a lot more to do before that.. God help me, i don't know even if i want to be!! there are people who claim to be and maybe they are, and there are people who doesn't claim and they are.. or maybe they are not in both cases.. i asked the question because i am curious about how does one enlightened person should be (and maybe here are some enlightened persons who could give a steight answer?).. i guess that the people on this list red at least " I am That " of Nisargadatta, so i guess that here should be some more answers.. i feel that enlightenment is a rare event...though on these lists you'll meet many who truly have deep understanding. are they enlightened? i have no idea and i never question anyone's enlightenment...besides how could i possibly know? ***** so, do you see my dificulty in understanding? there are so many words, and so many concepts that don't corespond to the reality.. those terms and those words that at the first look seem to make sense, after i look better, i realise that i don't know what it means.. i can't find an image to associate those words with.. what is enlightenment anyway?? personally i don't feel enlightened and i'm not bothered by that either but what bugs me is people who need validation to the extent that they turn into advaita bullies. i have a couple enlightened friends but they don't claim to be enlightened. then why have they appeared enlightened...to me? because it is always peaceful to be in their presence. **** that's what i was saying a couple of days ago.. i have some friends too that are very close to my heart and i feel very peacefull when i am around them.. i can always talk with them about absolutely anything, and gather together, share experiences and questions.. but, as i came to know some Great people as Nisargadatta, Krishnamurti and other who are still living, i was wondering why are they enlightened, how can i recognise an enlightened person? of course the enlightened people come in all shapes, sizes and personality types, not just the peaceful types. some of them can be fiery and can yell at you if you insist on not getting it...and that's exactly what some people may need. **** i guess those guys are the funny ones.... mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 I am going to give an even more rambling response than normal for me on this enlightenment topic. I have been meditating and reading books and listening to great sages for a god-awfull long time. This does not make me any more qualified, but I have been able to 'average out' alot of info and 'experience' and humbly offer the following: Firstly, Enlightenment is no big deal, no big deal in the sense that you will not be a dramatically different person. Many folks think they will be enlightened when they are a gentler person, when they walk around speaking wise things or when they quit smoking, etc. etc. etc. As one sage put it: Get rid of your bad habits now, or else you'll witness them in enlightenment. Secondly, Enlightenment is simply Self Realization. Instead of identifying your self with the objects of experience, or your emotions, or your thoughts - you realize your Self as Silence, as Non Acting. You are not your body - you are not your moods - you are the silence that 'notices'. Although there is much room for delusion on this point, yet at the same time I believe everyone had a sense of what this means. It does not mean thinking " I Am Witnessing " or clinging to " I Am " for this thinking and clinging is in the field of activity. It is on the level of Being not resulting from mental or emotional effort. Thirdly, Enlightenment is not the end or goal, it is another starting point. I love Pete's analogy of going from motorcycle to train - it is simply giving up control in an Absolute sense. You still have your old likes and dislikes (sense of control) in behavior as before, but You who You Are are untouched. Does this sound like a Duality? In a subtle way yes - " I Am " unbounded Silence on one hand but the world in which I experience is partitioned, is pairs of opposites, is constantly changing and flowing. The train roars - I look out the window. Who's driving this thing? Enlightenment - it's not a job, its an adventure. Larry Nisargadatta , " Athanor " <athanor@c...> wrote: > dear Hur, > > since you're asking for a more serious response, let's talk about the > question first. doesn't your question assume that one has to claim > one is enlightened already in order to answer this question? on > these lists this is a risky claim to make since there'll always be > someone who'll say, " no you are not! but i am. you're doing it all > wrong and this is how you do it... " > > ******** i am not claiming that i am enlightened; i am too young for that and i think i have a lot more to do before that.. God help me, i don't know even if i want to be!! there are people who claim to be and maybe they are, and there are people who doesn't claim and they are.. or maybe they are not in both cases.. i asked the question because i am curious about how does one enlightened person should be (and maybe here are some enlightened persons who could give a steight answer?).. i guess that the people on this list red at least " I am That " of Nisargadatta, so i guess that here should be some more answers.. > > > i feel that enlightenment is a rare event...though on these lists > you'll meet many who truly have deep understanding. are they > enlightened? i have no idea and i never question anyone's > enlightenment...besides how could i possibly know? > > ***** so, do you see my dificulty in understanding? there are so many words, and so many concepts that don't corespond to the reality.. those terms and those words that at the first look seem to make sense, after i look better, i realise that i don't know what it means.. i can't find an image to associate those words with.. > what is enlightenment anyway?? > > personally i don't feel enlightened and i'm not bothered by that > either but what bugs me is people who need validation to the extent > that they turn into advaita bullies. i have a couple enlightened > friends but they don't claim to be enlightened. then why have they > appeared enlightened...to me? because it is always peaceful to be in > their presence. > > **** that's what i was saying a couple of days ago.. i have some friends too that are very close to my heart and i feel very peacefull when i am around them.. i can always talk with them about absolutely anything, and gather together, share experiences and questions.. but, as i came to know some Great people as Nisargadatta, Krishnamurti and other who are still living, i was wondering why are they enlightened, how can i recognise an enlightened person? > > of course the enlightened people come in all shapes, sizes and > personality types, not just the peaceful types. some of them can be > fiery and can yell at you if you insist on not getting it...and > that's exactly what some people may need. > > **** i guess those guys are the funny ones.... > mira > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 --- " trem23 <inmadison " <inmadison wrote: Damn! That's a great paragraph. I wish I had said that. Maybe i did. Pete " I Am " unbounded Silence on one > hand but the world > in which I experience is partitioned, is pairs of > opposites, is > constantly changing and flowing. The train roars - I > look out the > window. Who's driving this thing? Enlightenment - > it's not a job, its > an adventure. > > Larry > > Nisargadatta , " Athanor " > <athanor@c...> wrote: > > dear Hur, > > > > since you're asking for a more serious response, > let's talk about > the > > question first. doesn't your question assume that > one has to claim > > one is enlightened already in order to answer this > question? on > > these lists this is a risky claim to make since > there'll always be > > someone who'll say, " no you are not! but i am. > you're doing it all > > wrong and this is how you do it... " > > > > ******** i am not claiming that i am enlightened; > i am too young > for that and i think i have a lot more to do before > that.. God help > me, i don't know even if i want to be!! there are > people who claim to > be and maybe they are, and there are people who > doesn't claim and > they are.. or maybe they are not in both cases.. i > asked the question > because i am curious about how does one enlightened > person should be > (and maybe here are some enlightened persons who > could give a steight > answer?).. i guess that the people on this list red > at least " I am > That " of Nisargadatta, so i guess that here should > be some more > answers.. > > > > > > i feel that enlightenment is a rare event...though > on these lists > > you'll meet many who truly have deep > understanding. are they > > enlightened? i have no idea and i never question > anyone's > > enlightenment...besides how could i possibly know? > > > > > ***** so, do you see my dificulty in > understanding? there are so > many words, and so many concepts that don't > corespond to the > reality.. those terms and those words that at the > first look seem to > make sense, after i look better, i realise that i > don't know what it > means.. i can't find an image to associate those > words with.. > > what is enlightenment anyway?? > > > > personally i don't feel enlightened and i'm not > bothered by that > > either but what bugs me is people who need > validation to the extent > > that they turn into advaita bullies. i have a > couple enlightened > > friends but they don't claim to be enlightened. > then why have they > > appeared enlightened...to me? because it is > always peaceful to be > in > > their presence. > > > > **** that's what i was saying a couple of days > ago.. i have some > friends too that are very close to my heart and i > feel very peacefull > when i am around them.. i can always talk with them > about absolutely > anything, and gather together, share experiences and > questions.. but, > as i came to know some Great people as Nisargadatta, > Krishnamurti and > other who are still living, i was wondering why are > they enlightened, > how can i recognise an enlightened person? > > > > of course the enlightened people come in all > shapes, sizes and > > personality types, not just the peaceful types. > some of them can > be > > fiery and can yell at you if you insist on not > getting it...and > > that's exactly what some people may need. > > > > **** i guess those guys are the funny ones.... > > mira > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Thanks for the motorcycle -> train. Mutually Grateful Club Nisargadatta , pete seesaw <seesaw1us> wrote: > > --- " trem23 <inmadison@h...> " > <inmadison@h...> wrote: > > Damn! That's a great paragraph. I wish I had said > that. Maybe i did. > > Pete > > > > " I Am " unbounded Silence on one > > hand but the world > > in which I experience is partitioned, is pairs of > > opposites, is > > constantly changing and flowing. The train roars - I > > look out the > > window. Who's driving this thing? Enlightenment - > > it's not a job, its > > an adventure. > > > > Larry > > > > Nisargadatta , " Athanor " > > <athanor@c...> wrote: > > > dear Hur, > > > > > > since you're asking for a more serious response, > > let's talk about > > the > > > question first. doesn't your question assume that > > one has to claim > > > one is enlightened already in order to answer this > > question? on > > > these lists this is a risky claim to make since > > there'll always be > > > someone who'll say, " no you are not! but i am. > > you're doing it all > > > wrong and this is how you do it... " > > > > > > ******** i am not claiming that i am enlightened; > > i am too young > > for that and i think i have a lot more to do before > > that.. God help > > me, i don't know even if i want to be!! there are > > people who claim to > > be and maybe they are, and there are people who > > doesn't claim and > > they are.. or maybe they are not in both cases.. i > > asked the question > > because i am curious about how does one enlightened > > person should be > > (and maybe here are some enlightened persons who > > could give a steight > > answer?).. i guess that the people on this list red > > at least " I am > > That " of Nisargadatta, so i guess that here should > > be some more > > answers.. > > > > > > > > > i feel that enlightenment is a rare event...though > > on these lists > > > you'll meet many who truly have deep > > understanding. are they > > > enlightened? i have no idea and i never question > > anyone's > > > enlightenment...besides how could i possibly know? > > > > > > > > ***** so, do you see my dificulty in > > understanding? there are so > > many words, and so many concepts that don't > > corespond to the > > reality.. those terms and those words that at the > > first look seem to > > make sense, after i look better, i realise that i > > don't know what it > > means.. i can't find an image to associate those > > words with.. > > > what is enlightenment anyway?? > > > > > > personally i don't feel enlightened and i'm not > > bothered by that > > > either but what bugs me is people who need > > validation to the extent > > > that they turn into advaita bullies. i have a > > couple enlightened > > > friends but they don't claim to be enlightened. > > then why have they > > > appeared enlightened...to me? because it is > > always peaceful to be > > in > > > their presence. > > > > > > **** that's what i was saying a couple of days > > ago.. i have some > > friends too that are very close to my heart and i > > feel very peacefull > > when i am around them.. i can always talk with them > > about absolutely > > anything, and gather together, share experiences and > > questions.. but, > > as i came to know some Great people as Nisargadatta, > > Krishnamurti and > > other who are still living, i was wondering why are > > they enlightened, > > how can i recognise an enlightened person? > > > > > > of course the enlightened people come in all > > shapes, sizes and > > > personality types, not just the peaceful types. > > some of them can > > be > > > fiery and can yell at you if you insist on not > > getting it...and > > > that's exactly what some people may need. > > > > > > **** i guess those guys are the funny ones.... > > > mira > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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