Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 I think you can tell when a person is enlightened or higher consciousness when they display no egoic hold to any subject. I believe that enlightenment is possible for anyone, and until now it has been a rare event; however, I believe that it will be more prevalent with the shifting planetary consciousness. copperbasil **** Maybe an enlightened person is the one who can give all the responses full of love, with patience, always the truth, with kindness.. the one who accepts the thing exacly how they are, and who can spread good mood around. mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 not necessarily. > > **** Maybe an enlightened person is the one who can give all the responses full of love, with patience, always the truth, with kindness.. the one who accepts the thing exacly how they are, and who can spread good mood around. > mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Well it depends on what you mean by pain? Do you mean strictly physical pain, like when you burn your hand? Or do you mean psychological, emotional pain & suffering? The second pain I've listed is purely a state of perception, which may be justified to the ego self, but has no validity outside the perception. copperbasil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 --- Jessica White <ellam-ondre wrote: > not necessarily. Were your parents kind when they disciplined you? Is the dentist kind when s/he hurts you? We didn't invent hurt, we only endure it. Some use it skillfully as a tool to help others , the majority use it to control, a few use it for fun. Why was it necessary in the first place? If you believe in God why did God invent it? And to what purpose does S/he/it use it? Pete > > > > > **** Maybe an enlightened person is the one who > can give all the responses > full of love, with patience, always the truth, with > kindness.. the one who > accepts the thing exacly how they are, and who can > spread good mood around. > > mira > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Athanor " <athanor@c...> wrote: > > I think you can tell when a person is enlightened or higher consciousness > when they display no egoic hold to any subject. I believe that enlightenment If an individual had a habit of holding on to a subject - they may continue to do so 'after' enlightenment. As I recall on some earlier posts, it was discussed how Nisargatta smoked till the day he died. > is possible for anyone, and until now it has been a rare event; however, I > believe that it will be more prevalent with the shifting planetary > consciousness. > I agree with this, and Pete's comments about this forum as perhaps the 'guru' of the future. The Internet is a living document available to all at any time. > copperbasil > > **** Maybe an enlightened person is the one who can give all the responses full of love, with patience, always the truth, with kindness.. the one who accepts the thing exacly how they are, and who can spread good mood around. > mira > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 on 1/25/03 10:26 AM, pete seesaw at seesaw1us wrote: > --- Jessica White <ellam-ondre wrote: >> not necessarily. > > Were your parents kind when they disciplined you? > Is the dentist kind when s/he hurts you? > We didn't invent hurt, we only endure it. Some use it > skillfully as a tool to help others , the majority use > it to control, a few use it for fun. > > Why was it necessary in the first place? If you > believe in God why did God invent it? > And to what purpose does S/he/it use it? > > Pete =========================== Q: If reality is bliss, then pleasure in some way must be related to it. M: Let us not proceed by verbal logic. The bliss of reality does not exclude suffering. Besides, you know only pleasure, not the bliss of pure being. So let us examine pleasure an its own level. If you look at your self in your moments of pleasure or pain, you will invariably find that it is not the thing in itself that is pleasant or painful, but the situation of which it is a part. Pleasure lies in the relationship between the enjoyer and the enjoyed. And the essence of it is acceptance. Whatever may be the situation, if it is acceptable, it is pleasant. If it is not acceptable, it is painful. What makes it acceptable is not important; the cause may be physical, or psychological. or untraceable; acceptance is the decisive factor. Obviously suffering is due to non-acceptance. Q: Pain is not acceptable. M: Why not? Did you ever try? Do try and you will find in pain a joy which pleasure cannot yield, for the simple reason that acceptance of pain take you much deeper than pleasure does. The personal self by its very nature is constantly pursuing pleasure and avoiding pain. The ending of this pattern is the ending of the self. The ending of the self with its desires and fears enables you to return to your real nature, the source of all happiness and peace. The perennial desire for pleasure is the reflection of the timeless harmony within. It is an observable fact that one becomes self-conscious only when caught in the conflict between pleasure and pain, which demand choice and decision. It is this clash between desire and fear that causes anger, which is the great destroyer of sanity in life. When pain is accepted for what it is a lesson and a warning, and deeply looked into and heeded, the separation between pain and pleasure breaks down, both become experience – painful when resisted, joyful when accepted. Q: Do you advise shunning pleasure and pursuing pain? M: No, nor pursuing pleasure and shunning pain. Accept both as they come, enjoy both while they last, let the go, as they must. Q: How can I possible enjoy pain? Physical pain calls for action. M: Of course. And so does mental. The bliss is in the awareness of it, in not shrinking, or in any way turning away from it. All happiness comes from awareness. The more we are conscious, the deeper the joy. Acceptance of pain, non-resistance, courage and endurance--these open deep and perennial sources of real happiness, true bliss. Q: Why should pain be more effective than pleasure? M: Pleasure is readily accepted, while all the powers of the self reject pain. As the acceptance of pain is the denial of the self, and the self stands in the way of true happiness, the whole-hearted acceptance of pain release the springs of happiness. Q: Does the acceptance of suffering act the same way? M: The fact of pain is easily brought within the focus of awareness. With suffering it is not that simple. To focus on suffering is not enough, for mental life, as we know it, is one continuous stream of suffering. To reach the deeper layers of suffering you must go to its roots and uncover their vast underground network, where fear and desire are closely interwoven and the currents of life's energy oppose, obstruct and destroy each other. Q: How can I set right a tangle which is entirely below the level of consciousness? M: By being with yourself, the " I Am " ; by watching yourself in your daily life with alert interest, with the intention to understand rather than to judge, in full acceptance of whatever may emerge. Because it is there, you encourage the deep to come to the surface and enrich your life and consciousness with its captive energies. That is the great work of awareness; it removes obstacles and releases energies by understanding the nature of life and mind. Intelligence is the door to freedom and alert attention is the mother of intelligence. Q: Why does pleasure end in pain? M: Everything has a beginning and an end and so does pleasure. Don't anticipate and don't regret, and there will be no pain. It is memory and imagination that cause suffering. Of course pain after pleasure may be due to the misuse of the body or the mind. The body knows its measure, but the mind does not. Its appetites are numberless and limitless. Watch you mind with great diligence, for there lies your bondage and also the key to freedom. When the mind takes over, remembers and anticipates, it exaggerates, it distorts, it over-looks. The past is projected into future and the future betrays the expectations. The organ of sensation and action are stimulated beyond capacity and they inevitably break down. The objects of pleasure cannot yield what is expected of them and get worn out or destroyed, by misuse. It results in excess of pain where pleasure was looked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 but even pleasure & pain are relative, dependent on the observer;) copper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Even though pleasure and pain both stand mute at the door of the Absolute, pleasure is preferred by most here in the relative. And even those who prefer suffering, do so because it pleases them. Larry Nisargadatta , topaz0012@a... wrote: > Well it depends on what you mean by pain? > Do you mean strictly physical pain, like when you burn your hand? > Or do you mean psychological, emotional pain & suffering? > > The second pain I've listed is purely a state of perception, which may be > justified to the ego self, but has no validity outside the perception. > > copperbasil > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.