Want a short-circuit...please.

[Guest guest]

Sitting on my bench under this century old oak tree--i wonder what is

there between the opposite components of my each thought--what is

there that fills up the space between these 2 opposites and keeps

them separate.

Each thought that comes to my mind(excuse me from

assuming that this is a universal phenomenon) has a *positive* and a

*negative* relative to its execution-(For instance--typing this post--

" YES " i might get some valuable inputs from someone who understands

better, " NO " i would look stupid and/or prententious).

Sitting under this ancient oak tree i studied all

thoughts coming to me----all--had 2 components a positive and a

negative. Wouldnt a positive cancel a negative and then wouldnt the

thought be nullified at source at its origin? Then there would be no

thought at all..but no...

There appears to be something in this space-time that

keeps these 2 fractions(/factions)separate allowing them to evolve.

What then is this " BUFFER " this " INSULATOR " and what is

the way to get rid of it..and in doing so would there be no thoughts?

If we bring about this " SHORT-CIRCUIT " how would the

release of the inherent energy manifest?

 

I wondered looking at this tall tree whether the tree is

above the roots or the roots above the tree and what is my relation

to it?

Please pardon my ignorance,

 

Jade.

[Guest guest]

Jade:

 

Love the name:) First of all, what anyone perceives about your intelligence

or

attitude is their perception, so be it! I'm glad you wrote this in. Trees

are living entities, and the fact that you were pondering this information

under a wise old oak was quite fascinating. You should talk to your tree

friend, he has some answers

that you have overlooked. I don't believe it was an accident that Buddha

achieved enlightenment sitting under a Bodhi tree!

 

Also, the space between thoughts is just that empty space. You cannot

understand

emptiness, so don't try to. The mind will twist it and contort it, but space

is nothingness and this isn't something that can be mentally discussed.

Nothingness

is best felt:) So go there and feel this nothingness, drop the mental

chatter, and know that the longer you abide in the nothingness the more

connected you become, and the less control the mind has over you.

 

Happy chatting to you and your tree:D

Copperbasil

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

on 2/15/03 8:47 AM, jade_matrix999 <intensivists at

intensivists wrote:

 

> Sitting on my bench under this century old oak tree--i wonder what is

> there between the opposite components of my each thought--what is

> there that fills up the space between these 2 opposites and keeps

> them separate.

> Each thought that comes to my mind(excuse me from

> assuming that this is a universal phenomenon) has a *positive* and a

> *negative* relative to its execution-(For instance--typing this post--

> " YES " i might get some valuable inputs from someone who understands

> better, " NO " i would look stupid and/or prententious).

> Sitting under this ancient oak tree i studied all

> thoughts coming to me----all--had 2 components a positive and a

> negative. Wouldnt a positive cancel a negative and then wouldnt the

> thought be nullified at source at its origin? Then there would be no

> thought at all..but no...

> There appears to be something in this space-time that

> keeps these 2 fractions(/factions)separate allowing them to evolve.

> What then is this " BUFFER " this " INSULATOR " and what is

> the way to get rid of it..and in doing so would there be no thoughts?

> If we bring about this " SHORT-CIRCUIT " how would the

> release of the inherent energy manifest?

>

> I wondered looking at this tall tree whether the tree is

> above the roots or the roots above the tree and what is my relation

> to it?

> Please pardon my ignorance,

>

> Jade.

 

 

Jade,

 

In the words of Sri Nisargadatta ( and pardon me for not looking them up

right now):

 

thoughts are like people on a crowded street, you don't bump into each one,

you weave your way through. You needn't avoid or repress just give back

attention to Who has the thought, Who looks at the thought.

 

and to also paraphrase Adi Da:

If you start out with zero information, how can you build upon that? You do

not know WHAT a single thing IS. How to build knowledge on such a

foundation? All you can know is " about stuff " and all that you can know

never touches or reduces the Mystery.

When you cease to be interested in the contents of the mind, then it will

get quiet.

 

))))))Shawn

 

****************

 

Nisargadatta:

 

You must unlearn everything. God is the end of all desire and knowledge.

(336)

 

Now I know nothing, for all knowledge is in dream only and not valid. I know

myself and I find no life nor death in me, only pure being, not being this

or that, but just being. (261)

 

At present your being is mixed up with experiencing. All you need is to

unravel being from the tangle of experiences. Once you have known pure

being, without being this or that, you will discern it among experiences and

you will no longer be misled by names and forms. Self-limitation is the very

essence of personality. (206)

 

Do not try to know the truth, for knowledge by the mind is not true

knowledge. But you can know what is not true, which is enough to liberate

you from the false. The idea that you know what is true is dangerous, for it

keeps you imprisoned in the mind. It is when you do not know that you are

free to investigate. And there can be no salvation without investigation,

because non-investigation is the main cause of bondage. (457-8)

 

What you take to be the " I " in the " I am " is not you. To know that you are

is natural, to know what you are is the result of much investigation. You

will have to explore the entire field of consciousness and go beyond. (312)

 

from _I Am That_

[Guest guest]

a suggestion...observe all thought without judgement or labeling.

u can't get rid of thoughts but u can observe them and in the observing,

something happens....

 

.... words of Sogeil Rinpoche in regard to this... " Allow the arising to be in

the arising " .

 

-

<intensivists

<Nisargadatta >

Saturday, February 15, 2003 10:47 AM

Want a short-circuit...please.

 

 

> Sitting on my bench under this century old oak tree--i wonder what is

> there between the opposite components of my each thought--what is

> there that fills up the space between these 2 opposites and keeps

> them separate.

> Each thought that comes to my mind(excuse me from

> assuming that this is a universal phenomenon) has a *positive* and a

> *negative* relative to its execution-(For instance--typing this post--

> " YES " i might get some valuable inputs from someone who understands

> better, " NO " i would look stupid and/or prententious).

> Sitting under this ancient oak tree i studied all

> thoughts coming to me----all--had 2 components a positive and a

> negative. Wouldnt a positive cancel a negative and then wouldnt the

> thought be nullified at source at its origin? Then there would be no

> thought at all..but no...

> There appears to be something in this space-time that

> keeps these 2 fractions(/factions)separate allowing them to evolve.

> What then is this " BUFFER " this " INSULATOR " and what is

> the way to get rid of it..and in doing so would there be no thoughts?

> If we bring about this " SHORT-CIRCUIT " how would the

> release of the inherent energy manifest?

>

> I wondered looking at this tall tree whether the tree is

> above the roots or the roots above the tree and what is my relation

> to it?

> Please pardon my ignorance,

>

> Jade.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear jade, some thing's that may relate.

 

))))))Shawn

 

===============

By itself nothing has existence. Everything needs its own absence. To be is

to be distinguishable, to be here and not there, to be now and not then, to

be thus and not otherwise. Like water is shaped by the container, so is

everything determined by conditions (gunas). (15)

 

Pure being, filling all and beyond all, is not existence, which is limited.

All limitation is imaginary, only the unlimited is real. (355)

-Nisargadatta

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is cool stuff from Emerson's Compensation:

 

 

I shall attempt in this and the following chapter to record some facts that

indicate the path of the law of Compensation; happy beyond my expectation,

if I shall truly draw the smallest arc of this circle.

 

POLARITY, or action and reaction, we meet in every part of nature; in

darkness and light; in heat and cold; in the ebb and flow of waters; in male

and female; in the inspiration and expiration of plants and animals; in the

equation of quantity and quality in the fluids of the animal body; in the

systole and diastole of the heart; in the undulations of fluids, and of

sound; in the centrifugal and centripetal gravity; in electricity,

galvanism, and chemical affinity. Superinduce magnetism at one end of a

needle; the opposite magnetism takes place at the other end. If the south

attracts, the north repels. To empty here, you must condense there. An

inevitable dualism bisects nature, so that each thing is a half, and

suggests another thing to make it whole; as, spirit, matter; man, woman;

odd, even; subjective, objective; in, out; upper, under; motion, rest; yea,

nay.

 

Whilst the world is thus dual, so is every one of its parts. The entire

system of things gets represented in every particle. There is somewhat that

resembles the ebb and flow of the sea, day and night, man and woman, in a

single needle of the pine, in a kernel of corn, in each individual of every

animal tribe. The reaction, so grand in the elements, is repeated within

these small boundaries. For example, in the animal kingdom the physiologist

has observed that no creatures are favorites, but a certain compensation

balances every gift and every defect. A surplusage given to one part is paid

out of a reduction from another part of the same creature. If the head and

neck are enlarged, the trunk and extremities are cut short.

 

The theory of the mechanic forces is another example. What we gain in power

is lost in time; and the converse. The periodic or compensating errors of

the planets is another instance. The influences of climate and soil in

political history are another. The cold climate invigorates. The barren soil

does not breed fevers, crocodiles, tigers, or scorpions.

 

The same dualism underlies the nature and condition of man. Every excess

causes a defect; every defect an excess. Every sweet hath its sour; every

evil its good. Every faculty which is a receiver of pleasure has an equal

penalty put on its abuse. It is to answer for its moderation with its life.

For every grain of wit there is a grain of folly. For every thing you have

missed, you have gained something else; and for every thing you gain, you

lose something. If riches increase, they are increased that use them. If the

gatherer gathers too much, nature takes out of the man what she puts into

his chest; swells the estate, but kills the owner. Nature hates monopolies

and exceptions. The waves of the sea do not more speedily seek a level from

their loftiest tossing, than the varieties of condition tend to equalize

themselves. There is always some levelling circumstance that puts down the

overbearing, the strong, the rich, the fortunate, substantially on the same

ground with all others. Is a man too strong and fierce for society, and by

temper and position a bad citizen, ‹ a morose ruffian, with a dash of the

pirate in him;‹‹ nature sends him a troop of pretty sons and daughters, who

are getting along in the dame's classes at the village school, and love and

fear for them smooths his grim scowl to courtesy. Thus she contrives to

intenerate the granite and felspar, takes the boar out and puts the lamb in,

and keeps her balance true.

 

These appearances indicate the fact that the universe is represented in

every one of its particles. Every thing in nature contains all the powers of

nature. Every thing is made of one hidden stuff; as the naturalist sees one

type under every metamorphosis, and regards a horse as a running man, a fish

as a swimming man, a bird as a flying man, a tree as a rooted man. Each new

form repeats not only the main character of the type, but part for part all

the details, all the aims, furtherances, hindrances, energies, and whole

system of every other. Every occupation, trade, art, transaction, is a

compend of the world, and a correlative of every other. Each one is an

entire emblem of human life; of its good and ill, its trials, its enemies,

its course and its end. And each one must somehow accommodate the whole man,

and recite all his destiny.

 

The world globes itself in a drop of dew.

 

The microscope cannot find the animalcule which is less perfect for being

little. Eyes, ears, taste, smell, motion, resistance, appetite, and organs

of reproduction that take hold on eternity, ‹ all find room to consist in

the small creature. So do we put our life into every act.

 

 

The true doctrine of omnipresence is, that God reappears with all his parts

in every moss and cobweb.

 

The value of the universe contrives to throw itself into every point. If

the good is there, so is the evil; if the affinity, so the repulsion; if the

force, so the limitation.

 

Thus is the universe alive. All things are moral. That soul, which within us

is a sentiment, outside of us is a law. We feel its inspiration; out there

in history we can see its fatal strength. " It is in the world, and the world

was made by it. " Justice is not postponed. A perfect equity adjusts its

balance in all parts of life. {Oi chusoi Dios aei enpiptousi}, ‹ The dice of

God are always loaded. The world looks like a multiplication-table, or a

mathematical equation, which, turn it how you will, balances itself. Take

what figure you will, its exact value, nor more nor less, still returns to

you. Every secret is told, every crime is punished, every virtue rewarded,

every wrong redressed, in silence and certainty. What we call retribution is

the universal necessity by which the whole appears wherever a part appears.

If you see smoke, there must be fire. If you see a hand or a limb, you know

that the trunk to which it belongs is there behind.

 

Every act rewards itself, or, in other words, integrates itself, in a

twofold manner; first, in the thing, or in real nature; and secondly, in the

circumstance, or in apparent nature. Men call the circumstance the

retribution. The causal retribution is in the thing, and is seen by the

soul. The retribution in the circumstance is seen by the understanding; it

is inseparable from the thing, but is often spread over a long time, and so

does not become distinct until after many years. The specific stripes may

follow late after the offence, but they follow because they accompany it.

Crime and punishment grow out of one stem. Punishment is a fruit that

unsuspected ripens within the flower of the pleasure which concealed it.

Cause and effect, means and ends, seed and fruit, cannot be severed; for the

effect already blooms in the cause, the end preexists in the means, the

fruit in the seed.

 

Whilst thus the world will be whole, and refuses to be disparted, we seek to

act partially, to sunder, to appropriate; for example, ‹ to gratify the

senses, we sever the pleasure of the senses from the needs of the character.

The ingenuity of man has always been dedicated to the solution of one

problem, ‹ how to detach the sensual sweet, the sensual strong, the sensual

bright, & c., from the moral sweet, the moral deep, the moral fair; that is,

again, to contrive to cut clean off this upper surface so thin as to leave

it bottomless; to get a _one end_, without an _other end_. The soul says,

Eat; the body would feast. The soul says, The man and woman shall be one

flesh and one soul; the body would join the flesh only. The soul says, Have

dominion over all things to the ends of virtue; the body would have the

power over things to its own ends.

 

The soul strives amain to live and work through all things. It would be the

only fact. All things shall be added unto it power, pleasure, knowledge,

beauty. The particular man aims to be somebody; to set up for himself; to

truck and higgle for a private good; and, in particulars, to ride, that he

may ride; to dress, that he may be dressed; to eat, that he may eat; and to

govern, that he may be seen. Men seek to be great; they would have offices,

wealth, power, and fame. They think that to be great is to possess one side

of nature, ‹ the sweet, without the other side, ‹ the bitter.

 

This dividing and detaching is steadily counteracted. Up to this day, it

must be owned, no projector has had the smallest success. The parted water

reunites behind our hand. Pleasure is taken out of pleasant things, profit

out of profitable things, power out of strong things, as soon as we seek to

separate them from the whole. We can no more halve things and get the

sensual good, by itself, than we can get an inside that shall have no

outside, or a light without a shadow. " Drive out nature with a fork, she

comes running back. "

 

 

 

 

on 2/15/03 8:47 AM, jade_matrix999 <intensivists at

intensivists wrote:

 

> Sitting on my bench under this century old oak tree--i wonder what is

> there between the opposite components of my each thought--what is

> there that fills up the space between these 2 opposites and keeps

> them separate.

> Each thought that comes to my mind(excuse me from

> assuming that this is a universal phenomenon) has a *positive* and a

> *negative* relative to its execution-(For instance--typing this post--

> " YES " i might get some valuable inputs from someone who understands

> better, " NO " i would look stupid and/or prententious).

> Sitting under this ancient oak tree i studied all

> thoughts coming to me----all--had 2 components a positive and a

> negative. Wouldnt a positive cancel a negative and then wouldnt the

> thought be nullified at source at its origin? Then there would be no

> thought at all..but no...

> There appears to be something in this space-time that

> keeps these 2 fractions(/factions)separate allowing them to evolve.

> What then is this " BUFFER " this " INSULATOR " and what is

> the way to get rid of it..and in doing so would there be no thoughts?

> If we bring about this " SHORT-CIRCUIT " how would the

> release of the inherent energy manifest?

>

> I wondered looking at this tall tree whether the tree is

> above the roots or the roots above the tree and what is my relation

> to it?

> Please pardon my ignorance,

>

> Jade.

[Guest guest]

NOW this IS A GREAT POST

SMILES TO YOU

>

> Love the name:) First of all, what anyone perceives about your

intelligence

> or

> attitude is their perception, so be it! I'm glad you wrote this

in. Trees

> are living entities, and the fact that you were pondering this

information

> under a wise old oak was quite fascinating. You should talk to

your tree

> friend, he has some answers

> that you have overlooked. I don't believe it was an accident that

Buddha

> achieved enlightenment sitting under a Bodhi tree!

>

> Also, the space between thoughts is just that empty space. You

cannot

> understand

> emptiness, so don't try to. The mind will twist it and contort it,

but space

> is nothingness and this isn't something that can be mentally

discussed.

> Nothingness

> is best felt:) So go there and feel this nothingness, drop the

mental

> chatter, and know that the longer you abide in the nothingness the

more

> connected you become, and the less control the mind has over you.

>

> Happy chatting to you and your tree:D

> Copperbasil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jade:

 

Everything on this planet is living, as Divine permeates every thing. When

we take

the time to communicate with all things living and *apparently* not living ,

we open to the beauty and inter-connection of the All. Trees that we feel

connected

to have opened themselves to us. They have touched us, in their own way,

just as

a human being saying " HI. "

 

We had a dear Pin Oak tree beside our trailer before we built our home. The

tree

was struck by lightening twice until it finally died. Oak trees attract

lightening to them and were used by Druids to deflect lightening from

structures. I loved that tree.

The day we had to cut it down because we didn't want it to fall on our new

home, I cried and cried. I had to come in the house and hide so the guy who

was sawing it

down would not see me. Now I have a new Pin Oak tree on our property. Well

he isn't new, but I am just now becoming aware of him. Years ago, when I was

totally caught up in my pain body, I'd sit under him and discuss my

depression.

Recently, I began to sit beside him again, musing his spirit, in joy.

 

You can sit with your tree. You can hug it. You can speak to it. I know

people

who hear words spoken back. I'm empathic, so I feel the words being

impressed.

And I'll tell you, when I started visiting this tree again, I knew it was

male and I knew

it was happy to see me:)

 

I like to think of the trees in Harry Potter's latest movie. This wasn't so

very far

from the Truth.

 

love,

copper

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , topaz0012@a... wrote:

 

 

Many thanks to the wonderful posts by Jessica,Shawn and Copperbasil.

I would definitely seek the help of my *oak* friend,yes he is quite

lively and compassionate.

Thanks,

Jade

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , topaz0012@a... wrote

 

 

Hi!Copperbasil,

 

Reading your post touched hidden sentiments.

In your post you had mentioned that trees are living entities but

what you actually meant was that they have feelings.

 

I had a garden in my back yard and there was this particularly

beautiful tree(botanical name not known to me) around 12feet tall for

which i had a great fascination,it was very pleasant to be in its

viccinity and lazing around with my back against it gave me a great

feeling,as if i was with a very close friend of mine. I never

mentioned this to any one with the risk of being labelled as a whacko

or an overtly sentimental individual.

 

I left home temporarily for my 3 year Residency at the medical

school and 6 months later when i returned home on vacation I found the

tree *dead*.

On enquiry from my father who looked after the garden it was learnt

that for unknown reasons this particular tree had just simply dried

up and he hadnt the time to remove it.

The same night when i was alone with this tree i couldnt help cry,as

though i had cried for a departed friend.I had felt alarmingly

ashamed at that time to have exhibited such emotions and this

incident stayed with me for 11 years until today.

I feel a little relieved today.

 

Yes, you may be right... trees do have feelings and it is quite

possible that they have a certain wisdom too.

 

 

Jade

 

you wrote this in. Trees

> are living entities, and the fact that you were pondering this

information

> under a wise old oak was quite fascinating. You should talk to

your tree

> friend, he has some answers

> that you have overlooked. I don't believe it was an accident that

Buddha

> achieved enlightenment sitting under a Bodhi tree!

>

> Also, the space between thoughts is just that empty space. You

cannot

> understand

> emptiness, so don't try to. The mind will twist it and contort it,

but space

> is nothingness and this isn't something that can be mentally

discussed.

> Nothingness

> is best felt:) So go there and feel this nothingness, drop the

mental

> chatter, and know that the longer you abide in the nothingness the

more

> connected you become, and the less control the mind has over you.

>

> Happy chatting to you and your tree:D

> Copperbasil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " jade_matrix999

<intensivists@h...> " <intensivists@h...> wrote:

> Sitting on my bench under this century old oak tree--i wonder what

is

 

Namaste,

 

Thought is the illusion. Between thought is truth. Everything in

illusion is but thought. The mind is thought.

We do not have thoughts we reach out and grab them, they would happen

anyway. There are huge thought forms we plug into.

 

Go inside to find the original sinner the 'I' thought, one will find

it doesn't exist. There is a bigger I which is everything and even

that is illusion.

 

Yes one can communicate with trees for all is one.......ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Tony,

This is not directed at you, or this post in particular, but (for

example) do you have direct knowledge/experience/cognition/insight or

whatever of each of the statements below; or are they the result of

some intellectual process, or something you read; or is it wishful

thinking; in other words, how did you come up with these?

 

For example: " Thought is the illusion " - - this is so hip to say, but

do we realize what it takes to utter such a statement with authority?

 

 

Larry

 

 

> Thought is the illusion. Between thought is truth. Everything in

> illusion is but thought. The mind is thought.

> We do not have thoughts we reach out and grab them, they would

happen

> anyway. There are huge thought forms we plug into.

>

> Go inside to find the original sinner the 'I' thought, one will

find

> it doesn't exist. There is a bigger I which is everything and even

> that is illusion.

>

> Yes one can communicate with trees for all is one.......ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Beautifully said to all Larry, including myself.

 

>

> trem23 <inmadison [sMTP:inmadison]

> Tuesday, 18 February 2003 8:49 am

> Nisargadatta

> Re: Want a short-circuit...please.

>

> Tony,

> This is not directed at you, or this post in particular, but (for

> example) do you have direct knowledge/experience/cognition/insight or

> whatever of each of the statements below; or are they the result of

> some intellectual process, or something you read; or is it wishful

> thinking; in other words, how did you come up with these?

>

> For example: " Thought is the illusion " - - this is so hip to say, but

> do we realize what it takes to utter such a statement with authority?

>

>

> Larry

>

>

> > Thought is the illusion. Between thought is truth. Everything in

> > illusion is but thought. The mind is thought.

> > We do not have thoughts we reach out and grab them, they would

> happen

> > anyway. There are huge thought forms we plug into.

> >

> > Go inside to find the original sinner the 'I' thought, one will

> find

> > it doesn't exist. There is a bigger I which is everything and even

> > that is illusion.

> >

> > Yes one can communicate with trees for all is one.......ONS...Tony.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " trem23 <inmadison@h...> "

<inmadison@h...> wrote:

> Tony,

> This is not directed at you, or this post in particular, but (for

> example) do you have direct knowledge/experience/cognition/insight

or

> whatever of each of the statements below; or are they the result of

> some intellectual process, or something you read; or is it wishful

> thinking; in other words, how did you come up with these?

>

> For example: " Thought is the illusion " - - this is so hip to say,

but

> do we realize what it takes to utter such a statement with

authority?

>

>

> Larry

 

Namaste Larry,

 

My conclusions came as a process of study combined with meditation

and observation, plus some 'Experience'........ONS....Tony.