Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Nisargadatta , " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: > " dan330033 <dan330033> " <dan330033> wrote: > If you can feel yourself as nothing, then > you are not at the origin point. > You are in a feeling experience, without > thinking about it. > > At the origin point, there are no > feelings, nor thoughts, nor space. > The origin generates space, time, > " I " , and eventually feelings and > thoughts. > > Don't settle for a feeling. > > > > hi Dan, I want to ask you how do you > pinpoint, that you are *not feeling* > but really FOUND: the notion of WHO > " I " is? > > --karta Yes, Karta! That's the question that won't settle for an answer. It's not just who " I " is, but how anything is experienced as anything, anywhere ... The problem is, as long as " I " am there to find the answer, the question yet remains. And if " I " am not there, nor anything else is there, and there is still some sense of nothing -- whether you call that a feeling, or Consciousness, or Being -- -- that sense of being nothing or being Consciousness means the question is still asked (albeit nonverbally) ... The resolution of the question can't possibly be from any verbal formula or feeling state whatsoever -- whether that formula says, " You are That, " or " All is Self, " or " from the very first not a single thing is " or " neither this nor that " -- None of those apply, nor a feeling, thought, experience ... It is a breaking away from everything known, everything of time, and even any sense of breaking away from anything -- There is no movement ... It is not a movement from one state to another state ... " This " has never not been the case ... The ignorance of " this, " the sense that something needed to be found, or known, or some obstacle removed -- was only a belief being maintained as a false security, a false self ... One way to question is like this: " In what way is anything lacking -- in what way is what is here, now, as is, not " this " -- That kind of questioning must be very honest -- because otherwise the person will say, " Oh, I get it -- it's always the case, this is it, just like this " -- and that's just another verbal formula or temporary feeling state being taken as a permanent knowing ... So, one must be uncompromisingly honest in looking at any sense of lack, or not having, or missing out, or anger or fear because things should be some other way ... and one looks into it ... what is that sense of something missing based on? what is the truth of that thought or feeling ... For example, I may feel that because there is violence, or I have experienced violence, the world has not been fair, or that I have been damaged, and so on ... I must then look into what experientially have I taken as true, and how true is that? How do I know for sure -- It is a very demanding inquiry -- it can't rest until everything has been thrown into question, everything looked into as fully as possible ... And yet, the end of the inquiry is never any other time than now, any other place than here... -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 > > > > hi Dan, I want to ask you how do you > > pinpoint, that you are *not feeling* > > but really FOUND: the notion of WHO > > " I " is? > > > > --karta > > Yes, Karta! > > That's the question that won't settle > for an answer. > > It's not just who " I " is, but how anything > is experienced as anything, anywhere ... > > The problem is, as long as " I " am there > to find the answer, the question yet > remains. > > And if " I " am not there, nor anything else > is there, and there is still some sense of > nothing -- whether you call that a feeling, > or Consciousness, or Being -- > > -- that sense of being nothing or being > Consciousness means the question > is still asked (albeit nonverbally) ... > > The resolution of the question can't possibly > be from any verbal formula or feeling > state whatsoever -- > whether that formula says, " You are That, " > or " All is Self, " or " from the very first > not a single thing is " or " neither this nor > that " -- > > None of those apply, nor a feeling, thought, > experience ... > > It is a breaking away from everything known, > everything of time, and even any sense of > breaking away from anything -- > > There is no movement ... > > It is not a movement from one state to another > state ... > > " This " has never not been the case ... > > The ignorance of " this, " the sense that something > needed to be found, or known, or some obstacle > removed -- was only a belief being maintained > as a false security, a false self ... > > One way to question is like this: " In what > way is anything lacking -- in what way is > what is here, now, as is, not " this " -- > > That kind of questioning must be very honest -- > because otherwise the person will say, > " Oh, I get it -- it's always the case, this > is it, just like this " -- > and that's just another verbal formula > or temporary feeling state being taken > as a permanent knowing ... > > So, one must be uncompromisingly honest in looking > at any sense of lack, or not having, or missing out, > or anger or fear because things should be some other way ... > and one looks into it ... what is that sense of something > missing based on? what is the truth of that thought > or feeling ... > > For example, I may feel that because there is violence, > or I have experienced violence, the world has not > been fair, or that I have been damaged, and so on ... > > I must then look into what experientially have I taken > as true, and how true is that? How do I know for > sure -- > > It is a very demanding inquiry -- it can't rest until > everything has been thrown into question, everything > looked into as fully as possible ... > > And yet, the end of the inquiry is never any other time > than now, any other place than here... > > -- Dan yes, you quote " You are That, " or " All is Self " similar: i had an acid trip were i realized as Timothy Leary said " what is IS " ad everything is OK the way it is. and really it is the way it is.. when later i read Ramana the neti neti was too tedious for me but with Nisargaddata's idea 'awareness kept aware on Awareness' sounded natural and i said to my self this is the same as my cosmic acid trip all i have to do is recalled that state.. a state of pristine non-moving NOW-AWARENESS but since it is [for better word] a state it is close to a *feeling* for me Dan, what confuses me is our mutual friend the reverend stubbornly preaching, that the AWAKENESS can be ONLY reached after a rock-bottom state where you undermine all of the entity-selves one operates with. -i don't think, that that is the ONLY rout, since my experience was through an other side: the cosmic, which leads to an AWARE state what do you think? karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 > yes, you quote " You are That, " or > " All is Self " similar: i had an acid > trip were i realized as Timothy Leary > said " what is IS " ad everything is OK > the way it is. and really it is the > way it is.. when later i read Ramana > the neti neti was too tedious for > me but with Nisargaddata's idea > 'awareness kept aware on Awareness' > sounded natural and i said to my self > this is the same as my cosmic acid > trip all i have to do is recalled that > state.. a state of pristine non-moving > NOW-AWARENESS > > but since it is [for better word] a > state it is close to a *feeling* for me > > Dan, what confuses me is our mutual > friend the reverend stubbornly > preaching, that the AWAKENESS can > be ONLY reached after a rock-bottom > state where you undermine all of the entity-selves one operates with. > > -i don't think, that that is the ONLY > rout, since my experience was through > an other side: the cosmic, which > leads to an AWARE state > > what do you think? > > karta Hi Karta -- I think that LSD can open a window, but it can't walk through it. What you are sharing is an experience of opening, yet still an experience. All experiences, even the most wonderful, peaceful no-thing awareness experiences, dissolve -- they are temporary manifestations ... Any LSD experience is chemically dependent. The chemical can open neurons in unexpected ways, but doesn't give the original being you are. The fundamental illusion in any substance-induced experience of truth is that a substance could be necessary, and that a change from one experience to another reveals the truth that is, that a particular experience is more the truth than another. The truth that *is* isn't in any particular experience, so it is equally in all experience. The truth that *is* isn't in any experience, so it is equally in the space between experiences. Truth *is* not in any particular body, so it is equally as every body. It is not any particular body, so it is equally the space between bodies. The Judi body is of no particular importance. It is just another body. There is no particular status to it that requires a fight against what it says, or to endorse that what it says is true. Truth is not any particular body, nor does it depend on a body's experience, nor is it located somewhere else other than bodily experiences. It is right here, right now, as is, bodily, and empty. Judi's teaching about suffering is simple: if you are doing anything to avoid your suffering, that very movement is a self-constructed obstacle to what is, as is. Truth is *is*, as is. Judi has her way of expressing this truth -- if you like the way it is expressed by a different body -- fine, look there instead. But at some point, it won't matter what any body says pro or con to affirm or negate. It is not a matter of which body expresses it, or how -- it is you being it. And in being it, there is no body that is outside of who you are ... not the Judi body or the Dan body or the Karta body or the body of the hobo looking through the garbage or the body of the child dumped in the dumpster as well as the body of beautiful couples making love as well as the body of a dog a caterpillar a cloud a bird dropping a flower -- truth doesn't pick and choose who or what to be or not to be ... Thus, truth *is* ... Peace, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 > > for me but with Nisargaddata's idea > > 'awareness kept aware on Awareness' > > sounded natural and i said to my self > > this is the same as my cosmic acid > > trip all i have to do is recalled that > > state.. a state of pristine non-moving > > NOW-AWARENESS > > Dan, what confuses me is our mutual > > friend the reverend stubbornly > > preaching, that the AWAKENESS can > > be ONLY reached after a rock-bottom > > state where you undermine all of the entity-selves one operates > with. > > > > -i don't think, that that is the ONLY > > rout, since my experience was through > > an other side: the cosmic, which > > leads to an AWARE state > > > > what do you think? > > > > karta OK Dan, I liked your answer; mow please answer: yes, or no --Karta <rock-bottom¿> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Nisargadatta , " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: > > > for me but with Nisargaddata's idea > > > 'awareness kept aware on Awareness' > > > sounded natural and i said to my self > > > this is the same as my cosmic acid > > > trip all i have to do is recalled that > > > state.. a state of pristine non-moving > > > NOW-AWARENESS > > > Dan, what confuses me is our mutual > > > friend the reverend stubbornly > > > preaching, that the AWAKENESS can > > > be ONLY reached after a rock-bottom > > > state where you undermine all of the entity-selves one operates > > with. > > > > > > -i don't think, that that is the ONLY > > > rout, since my experience was through > > > an other side: the cosmic, which > > > leads to an AWARE state > > > > > > what do you think? > > > > > > karta > > > OK Dan, I liked your answer; > mow please answer: yes, or no > > --Karta > > <rock-bottom¿> There is no route. You are the route. There is no Judi's route or Karta's route. There is only the walk you are walking ... which is walking you ... If you are asking whether anyone else can provide for you the route you are already walking - which is already walking you ... the answer is NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 to an AWARE state or <rock-bottom¿> > > There is no route. > > You are the route. > > There is no Judi's route or Karta's route. > > There is only the walk you are walking ... > which is walking you ... > > If you are asking whether anyone else can > provide for you the route you are already > walking - which is already walking you ... > the answer is NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! > > -- Dan good answers! <thanks> I wanted to ask you why do you promote j*di? ----love, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 >>There is no route.Do you see contradictions in your life? THAT Catch all the cricket action. Download Score tracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Nisargadatta , Consciousness Noumenon <sloshednstoned> wrote: > > >>There is no route. > > Do you see contradictions in your life? > > THAT > I know, that is why the bullies trolling the clubs and trying sell their 'formula' annoy me ;-) ----love, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Nisargadatta , " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: > to an AWARE state > or <rock-bottom¿> > > > > > There is no route. > > > > You are the route. > > > > There is no Judi's route or Karta's route. > > > > There is only the walk you are walking ... > > which is walking you ... > > > > If you are asking whether anyone else can > > provide for you the route you are already > > walking - which is already walking you ... > > the answer is NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! > > > > -- Dan > > > good answers! <thanks> > > I wanted to ask you why do you > promote j*di? > > ----love, Karta I don't, Karta. I just have a natural response of humor to her humor, and enjoy her way of expressing insights. In no way is my natural response a promotion -- because I totally get that not everyone's response is the same -- not by a longshot, and it doesn't need to be. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 on 2/20/03 10:05 AM, dan330033 <dan330033 at dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta , " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " > <mi_nok> wrote: >> to an AWARE state >> or <rock-bottom¿> >> >>> >>> There is no route. >>> >>> You are the route. >>> >>> There is no Judi's route or Karta's route. >>> >>> There is only the walk you are walking ... >>> which is walking you ... >>> >>> If you are asking whether anyone else can >>> provide for you the route you are already >>> walking - which is already walking you ... >>> the answer is NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! >>> >>> -- Dan >> >> >> good answers! <thanks> >> >> I wanted to ask you why do you >> promote j*di? >> >> ----love, Karta > > I don't, Karta. > > I just have a natural response of humor > to her humor, and enjoy her way > of expressing insights. > > In no way is my natural response a promotion -- > because I totally get that not everyone's > response is the same -- not by a longshot, > and it doesn't need to be. > > -- Dan Dan, Who *is* this Judi? And that is not meant as an ultimate question. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 > Dan, > Who *is* this Judi? And that is not meant as an ultimate question. > > Shawn Shawn, Aside from being Karta's good friend, she is someone who posts on a lot of nondual lists, and has her own list TheEndOfTheRopeRanch, as well as a web site. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 on 2/20/03 11:17 AM, dan330033 <dan330033 at dan330033 wrote: >> Dan, >> Who *is* this Judi? And that is not meant as an ultimate question. >> >> Shawn > > Shawn, > > Aside from being Karta's good friend, > she is someone who posts on a lot > of nondual lists, and has her own > list TheEndOfTheRopeRanch, as well > as a web site. > > -- Dan Ah, I've heard of this list, of saniel bonder fame? She has her own website? If so, could you post her url? Thanks, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 2/20/03 11:17 AM, dan330033 <dan330033> at dan330033 > wrote: > > >> Dan, > >> Who *is* this Judi? And that is not meant as an ultimate question. > >> > >> Shawn > > > > Shawn, > > > > Aside from being Karta's good friend, > > she is someone who posts on a lot > > of nondual lists, and has her own > > list TheEndOfTheRopeRanch, as well > > as a web site. > > > > -- Dan > > Ah, I've heard of this list, of saniel bonder fame? She has her own website? > If so, could you post her url? > > > Thanks, > Shawn Shawn -- Doing a search on Google for Judi Rhodes home page, I got this: http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/judi-1.htm What did you hear about her connection with Saniel? It's been ages since I checked out her site, probably different now. Enjoy, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 on 2/20/03 12:31 PM, dan330033 <dan330033 at dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: >> on 2/20/03 11:17 AM, dan330033 <dan330033> at dan330033 >> wrote: >> >>>> Dan, >>>> Who *is* this Judi? And that is not meant as an ultimate > question. >>>> >>>> Shawn >>> >>> Shawn, >>> >>> Aside from being Karta's good friend, >>> she is someone who posts on a lot >>> of nondual lists, and has her own >>> list TheEndOfTheRopeRanch, as well >>> as a web site. >>> >>> -- Dan >> >> Ah, I've heard of this list, of saniel bonder fame? She has her own > website? >> If so, could you post her url? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Shawn > > Shawn -- > > Doing a search on Google for Judi Rhodes home page, > I got this: http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/judi-1.htm > > What did you hear about her connection with Saniel? > > It's been ages since I checked out her site, probably > different now. > > Enjoy, > Dan Thanks Dan Somebody told me that's what this Endoftherope list was : people connected with the Waking Down teaching. I really haven't got a clue if it's true. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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