Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Ramana Maharshi Self is only Being - not being this or that. It is Simple Being. BE, and There is the end of ignorance. --- If one can only realize at heart what one's true nature is, one then will f= ind that it is infinite wisdom, truth, and bliss, without beginning and with= out end. ------- Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free from ideation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure consciousness and is followed by the innumerable sensations and perceptions feeling and ideas which in their tot= ality constitute God and His world. The *I Am* remains as the witness, but it is by the will of God that everything happens... Question: Why not by my will? Nisargadatta: Again you have spit yourself-into God and witness. Both are one... -----Karta forget focusing on the the rock-bottom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: forget focusing on the the rock-bottom Wakedown states; leave those to the mentalwards and funny-ranches ----K > Ramana Maharshi > > Self is only Being - > not being this or that. > It is Simple Being. > BE, and > There is the end of ignorance. > --- > If one can only realize at heart what one's true nature is, one then will= f= > ind that it is infinite wisdom, truth, and bliss, without beginning and w= ith= > out end. > > ------- > Nisargadatta: Everything is a play > of ideas. In the state free from > ideation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing > is perceived. The root idea is > *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > consciousness and is followed by the > innumerable sensations and perceptions feeling and ideas which in their t= ot= > ality constitute God and His world. > The *I Am* remains as the witness, but > it is by the will of God that > everything happens... > Question: Why not by my will? > Nisargadatta: Again you have spit yourself-into God and witness. Both > are one... > > -----Karta > forget focusing on the the rock-bottom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 on 2/25/03 3:08 PM, satkartar7 <mi_nok at mi_nok wrote: > " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: > > forget focusing on the the rock-bottom > Wakedown states; leave those to the > mentalwards and funny-ranches > > ----K > Hi K, Seems you have funnybone to pick! Up and Down are in duality. Don't pit one against the other, it's unnecesary. The trouble is in preferring. It's only words. All roads lead to here, Always, Already and Prior to thinking. _Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 2/25/03 3:08 PM, satkartar7 <mi_nok> at mi_nok wrote: > > > " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: > > > > forget focusing on the the rock-bottom > > Wakedown states; leave those to the > > mentalwards and funny-ranches > > > > ----K > > > > > Hi K, > Seems you have funnybone to pick! > > Up and Down are in duality. Don't pit one against the other, it's > unnecesary. The trouble is in preferring. It's only words. All roads lead to > here, Always, Already and Prior to thinking. > > _Shawn yes, i should stop goofing around Shawn, iam still riding the Wakingdowners downers <grin> i thought *Waking up* means = TO STAY AWARE and of course in the HERE & NOW; what ever 'state' one is in: rock-bottom or blissed out oh! ---Karta ps; i think iam inflicted with the 'cyber-obsession' bug and should go hicking instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Nisargadatta , " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > > on 2/25/03 3:08 PM, satkartar7 <mi_nok> at mi_nok wrote: > > > > > " satkartar7 <mi_nok> " <mi_nok> wrote: > > > > > > forget focusing on the the rock-bottom > > > Wakedown states; leave those to the > > > mentalwards and funny-ranches > > > > > > ----K > > > > > > > > > Hi K, > > Seems you have funnybone to pick! > > > > Up and Down are in duality. Don't pit one against the other, it's > > unnecesary. The trouble is in preferring. It's only words. All roads lead to > > here, Always, Already and Prior to thinking. > > > > _Shawn > > yes, i should stop goofing around > Shawn, > > iam still riding the Wakingdowners > downers <grin> > > i thought *Waking up* means = > > TO STAY AWARE and of course in the > HERE & NOW; what ever 'state' one > is in: rock-bottom or blissed out > > oh! > > ---Karta > ps; i think iam inflicted with the 'cyber-obsession' bug and should go > hicking instead besides iam not the one stuck in the DOWN ward down rout.. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 > The *I Am* remains as the witness, but > it is by the will of God that > everything happens... > Question: Why not by my will? > Nisargadatta: Again you have spit yourself-into God and witness. Both > are one... > > -----Karta > forget focusing on the the rock-bottom Questioner: Well there is a certain thing that develops. With meditation you become the watcher. It's more self-focussed in a sense. John de Ruiter: The watcher is much more of a sophisticated, practiced " somebody " . The watcher will not surrender to what it actually knows is true, because then it will disappear inside of what it knows is true, and then there will be no more watcher. The watcher keeps itself safe. Questioner: How does one give up the watcher? John: By surrendering to what one honestly knows is true. When you as consciousness let honesty in, then immediately you begin to see everything - everything that you are holding onto, everything you are wanting. The moment you see what it is that you want, there will be a knowing that you do not need that. There will be an inner surrender to letting it go. One of the things you will be surrendering is being the watcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 on 2/26/03 1:47 AM, toby20042004 <toby.wilson at toby.wilson wrote: >> The *I Am* remains as the witness, but >> it is by the will of God that >> everything happens... >> Question: Why not by my will? >> Nisargadatta: Again you have spit yourself-into God and witness. > Both >> are one... >> >> -----Karta >> forget focusing on the the rock-bottom > > Questioner: Well there is a certain thing that develops. With > meditation you become the watcher. It's more self-focussed in a > sense. > > John de Ruiter: The watcher is much more of a sophisticated, > practiced " somebody " . The watcher will not surrender to what it > actually knows is true, because then it will disappear inside of what > it knows is true, and then there will be no more watcher. The > watcher keeps itself safe. > > Questioner: How does one give up the watcher? > > John: By surrendering to what one honestly knows is true. When you > as consciousness let honesty in, then immediately you begin to see > everything - everything that you are holding onto, everything you are > wanting. The moment you see what it is that you want, there will be > a knowing that you do not need that. There will be an inner > surrender to letting it go. One of the things you will be > surrendering is being the watcher. Thanks toby, I don't look at this as being contradicting. The " watcher " as de Ruiter is describing is a motivated inner self and not at all the same as witnessing. This " watcher " is the ego sneaking in the back door. Witnessing is awareness prior to identification, so there is no motivation, no judgements, nothing to attain. That This never changes, that core. There is a quality to everymoment that is always the same. It is Being without being this or that. We are that Always Already,...some might say we surrender to That, but we are that Already, so how can we surrender to ourself. We let go of what is untrue, by simply seeing that it is so. When one gets tired of one's own game, the struggle, the seeking, then one stops ( this is the " bottom " )because that is all that one can do. You never 'concentrate there as technique, you get there by being sensitive to your own suffering and finding no escape. Awareness then becomes interested in itself. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 I agree Shawn, it is far from contradicting. Witnessing and becoming the watcher are two different things. >>We are that Always Already,...some might say we surrender to That, >>but we are that Already, so how can we surrender to ourself. Very true, the English language is such a dynamic communucation medium. Resistance is an act of creation. It creates a truth, a personal truth, a truth we can hold onto and live by when it suits us. It is a protective mehanism and one that saves us from having to let in The Truth. It is this illusion we create of personal or relative truths that we surrender. And it is The Truth that we surrender to, which is our true self, yes, that which we are already. We now give it right of way. >>We let go of what is untrue, by simply seeing that it is so. This is internally honesty. We drop our allegiance to our issues, to our self created untrue truths. Instead of being loyal to our illusion, we become loyal to Truth, to reality itself. >>you get there by being sensitive to your own suffering and finding >>no escape. The attempted escape is formed by the issues we create through our resistance to what is real. This is the illusion we try to hide behind. I heard John de Ruiter once say, " It is like an angry bull in a china shop. " The bull being life's circumstances and all the shelving, full of delicate, fragile pieces of china are our insides. The bull has absolutely no awareness of our current situation, of the damage he can create. What to do? How to hold all this shelving in place? When the bull begins to move through the shop we go into damage control, stacking away our delicate pieces of china, reshuffling them so as to keep them safe. Naturally, John's advice is to let that bull run anywhere he likes, without any restriction whatsoever. Let him smash every last piece of china and just be in it, without resistance. And even when he heads for that prime, most expensive, most treasured piece, hidden right at the back of the store, softly and warmly let him through. Toby > Thanks toby, > I don't look at this as being contradicting. The " watcher " as de Ruiter is > describing is a motivated inner self and not at all the same as witnessing. > This " watcher " is the ego sneaking in the back door. > > Witnessing is awareness prior to identification, so there is no motivation, > no judgements, nothing to attain. > > That This never changes, that core. There is a quality to everymoment that > is always the same. It is Being without being this or that. > > We are that Always Already,...some might say we surrender to That, but we > are that Already, so how can we surrender to ourself. We let go of what is > untrue, by simply seeing that it is so. When one gets tired of one's own > game, the struggle, the seeking, then one stops > ( this is the " bottom " )because that is all that one can do. You never > 'concentrate there as technique, you get there by being sensitive to your > own suffering and finding no escape. Awareness then becomes interested in > itself. > > Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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