Guest guest Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 for all the talk? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 For security Shawn. To confirm or validate we are on the right path, heading in the right direction, that we are moving along safely. If I think it, then you say it, then I can feel better as it has a higher chance of being true. It is a lack of trust in oneself. This is the need for all the talk. Toby Nisargadatta , " Shawn <shawnregan> " <shawnregan> wrote: > for all the talk? > > Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Shawn <shawnregan> " <shawnregan> wrote: > for all the talk? > > Shawn Dear Shawn, You are mistaken....there is much need. You see I have taken enough efforts throught my life to ensure that I have food,shelter and clothes for the rest of my life even if i don`t work...other bodily desires are also fulfilled. Most of my mental desires of owning this and that have also been fullfilled...but there is this one problem..my mind keeps on desiring...and now I have a grand desire...a spiritual desire...to become enlightened..to stand apart from the rest....to experience the unexperienced and then to " show-off " to the rest of the world the level of my understanding.....and that`s why...I need " all the talk " . I would write in this column as if I have experience of the 1st hand nature..I would advise the other members with my understanding...and i would thereby begin slowly to realise my own intrisic nature.I would thereafter answer all queries appearing in this post with my newly found experience....later on as things improve others may also be in a position to use my quotes as references. Slowly I would also begin to get enlightened and as I do so I would also illuminate others in this forum and aid them in their pursuit. Thats why....I need " all the talk " . How very unintelligent of you to ask such a question? Jade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 > You are mistaken....there is much need. Jade, I asked " why the need " . I didn't say there wasn't any. > is this one problem..my mind keeps on desiring...and now I have a > grand desire...a spiritual desire...to become enlightened..to stand > apart from the rest....to experience the unexperienced and then > to " show-off " to the rest of the world the level of my > understanding.....and that`s why...I need " all the talk " . SNM: " The supreme is the easiest to reach for it is your very being. It is enough to stop thinking and desiring anything, but the Supreme. " > Slowly I would also begin to get enlightened and as I do so I would > also illuminate others in this forum and aid them in their pursuit. > > Thats why....I need " all the talk " . > > How very unintelligent of you to ask such a question? Thank you. SNM: " Words and questions come from the mind and hold you there. To go beyond the mind, you must be silent and quiet. Peace and silence, silence and peace - this is the way beyond. Stop asking questions. " I see plenty of talk on all the boards. What do we really know? Are we pushing away what we believe we want by trying to conceptualize and understand it with the intelligence, with the mind? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 Toby, I agree with what you have written. We need reassurance and direction. But I'm torn as to what/who is getting or in need of this reassurance. Is my ego, knowing I'm hell-bent on unseating it, grasping at what it can, making me think it's part of what I will call enlightened. Is it sitting next to me, in bugs bunny fashion, saying come on Doc lets get enlightened? SNM wrote: " First be free from fear. See that there is nothing to be afraid of. Fearlessness is the door to the Supreme. " Easier said than done, or perhaps not if one can just do? I don't pretend to have any answers, just trying to figure myself out. Shawn Nisargadatta , " toby20042004 <toby.wilson@t...> " <toby.wilson@t...> wrote: > For security Shawn. To confirm or validate we are on the right path, > heading in the right direction, that we are moving along safely. If > I think it, then you say it, then I can feel better as it has a > higher chance of being true. It is a lack of trust in oneself. This > is the need for all the talk. > > Toby > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn <shawnregan> " > <shawnregan> wrote: > > for all the talk? > > > > Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 We humans are so ironic, that hearing dozens upon dozens of accounts, phrases and words re 'enlightenment', we glob onto those that please us, that flatter us, that promise our survival and continued amusement. We have become addicted to being seekers, even afraid to give that up. Being ripe and ready to burst with self-realization, we ignore the Obvious, running around with so much baggage and ticket in hand. Self-Realization: identity jolt from changing manifest field of thought to calmness stability of absolute. That's it, that's all there is to it. Keep your personality, preferences, good and bad habits - all that stuff stays where it is - all that stuff has nothing to do with 'it'. Even the 'that's it' above is saying way too much because you do not realize the Self, only the Self can realize the Self - you stay right where you are. You do not get enlightened because you can't get there from here. Why is it said to be a pathless path? Not because there is no place to go, not because you are already there - - but because of its naturalness. One does not have to continuously go out on the front porch to check the address to see if we are home. Friends, Larry Nisargadatta , " jade_matrix999 <intensivists@h...> " <intensivists@h...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Shawn <shawnregan> " > <shawnregan> wrote: > > for all the talk? > > > > Shawn > > > Dear Shawn, > > You are mistaken....there is much need. > > You see I have taken enough efforts throught my life to ensure that I > have food,shelter and clothes for the rest of my life even if i don`t > work...other bodily desires are also fulfilled. Most of my mental > desires of owning this and that have also been fullfilled...but there > is this one problem..my mind keeps on desiring...and now I have a > grand desire...a spiritual desire...to become enlightened..to stand > apart from the rest....to experience the unexperienced and then > to " show-off " to the rest of the world the level of my > understanding.....and that`s why...I need " all the talk " . > > I would write in this column as if I have experience of the 1st hand > nature..I would advise the other members with my understanding...and > i would thereby begin slowly to realise my own intrisic nature.I > would thereafter answer all queries appearing in this post with my > newly found experience....later on as things improve others may also > be in a position to use my quotes as references. > > Slowly I would also begin to get enlightened and as I do so I would > also illuminate others in this forum and aid them in their pursuit. > > Thats why....I need " all the talk " . > > How very unintelligent of you to ask such a question? > > Jade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Shawn <shawnregan> " <shawnregan> wrote: > > You are mistaken....there is much need. > > Jade, I asked " why the need " . I didn't say there wasn't any. > > > is this one problem..my mind keeps on desiring...and now I have a > > grand desire...a spiritual desire...to become enlightened..to stand > > apart from the rest....to experience the unexperienced and then > > to " show-off " to the rest of the world the level of my > > understanding.....and that`s why...I need " all the talk " . > > SNM: " The supreme is the easiest to reach for it is your very being. > It is enough to stop thinking and desiring anything, but the Supreme. " > > > Slowly I would also begin to get enlightened and as I do so I would > > also illuminate others in this forum and aid them in their pursuit. > > > > Thats why....I need " all the talk " . > > > > How very unintelligent of you to ask such a question? > > Thank you. > > SNM: " Words and questions come from the mind and hold you there. To > go beyond the mind, you must be silent and quiet. Peace and silence, > silence and peace - this is the way beyond. Stop asking questions. " > > I see plenty of talk on all the boards. What do we really know? Are THATS THE WHOLE POINT SHAWN...I DONT REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ..ALL I KNOW WITH CERTAINITY IS THAT I DONT KNOW ANYTHING....I HAVE READ SO MANY BOOKS ,ATTENDED SO MANY TALKS,PARTICIPATED IN SO MANY PROGRAMMES AND NOW WHEN I READ MAHARAJ`S BOOK IT DAWNED UPON ME THAT I KNOW NOTHING..... JADE > Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Jade, Obviously you have some skills and knowledge, typing for one, or else you wouldn't have gotten this far. Don't feed us this " don't know anything " BS - and that is what it is - - plain ol' BS. Stop indulging. Larry > > > THATS THE WHOLE POINT SHAWN...I DONT REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ..ALL I > KNOW WITH CERTAINITY IS THAT I DONT KNOW ANYTHING....I HAVE READ SO > MANY BOOKS ,ATTENDED SO MANY TALKS,PARTICIPATED IN SO MANY PROGRAMMES > AND NOW WHEN I READ MAHARAJ`S BOOK IT DAWNED UPON ME THAT I KNOW > NOTHING..... > > JADE > > > Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 on 3/4/03 7:46 AM, jade_matrix999 <intensivists at intensivists wrote: > > THATS THE WHOLE POINT SHAWN...I DONT REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ..ALL I > KNOW WITH CERTAINITY IS THAT I DONT KNOW ANYTHING....I HAVE READ SO > MANY BOOKS ,ATTENDED SO MANY TALKS,PARTICIPATED IN SO MANY PROGRAMMES > AND NOW WHEN I READ MAHARAJ`S BOOK IT DAWNED UPON ME THAT I KNOW > NOTHING..... > > JADE This is the " other shawn " : I know what you mean, Jade. *Who* is it that know nothing? ;-) *Hawaii Shawn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Hawaii Shawn? Man, why couldn't I be a Hawaii Shawn??? *Atlanta Shawn* > This is the " other shawn " : > > I know what you mean, Jade. *Who* is it that know nothing? ;-) > > *Hawaii Shawn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Well Shawn, what I wrote I don't totally agree with, for I was referring to a want or a desire to talk, rather than a need. The question you posed is one I have asked myself at times. Why the need for all the talk? When being still, soft and gentle within, when collapsing into your innermost, when it feels like liquid gold is flowing right through you, do you have any need for movement of conciousness, any need to talk at all? Often times such a beautiful and delicate state of being can be knocked off track simply by the breath, and even breath itself at times can seem an unnecessary labor. A pertinent question - why the need for all the talk? Toby Nisargadatta , " Shawn <shawnregan> " <shawnregan> wrote: > Toby, > > I agree with what you have written. We need reassurance and > direction. But I'm torn as to what/who is getting or in need of this > reassurance. Is my ego, knowing I'm hell-bent on unseating it, > grasping at what it can, making me think it's part of what I will > call enlightened. Is it sitting next to me, in bugs bunny fashion, > saying come on Doc lets get enlightened? > > SNM wrote: " First be free from fear. See that there is nothing to be > afraid of. Fearlessness is the door to the Supreme. " > > Easier said than done, or perhaps not if one can just do? > > I don't pretend to have any answers, just trying to figure myself out. > > Shawn > > > Nisargadatta , " toby20042004 > <toby.wilson@t...> " <toby.wilson@t...> wrote: > > For security Shawn. To confirm or validate we are on the right > path, > > heading in the right direction, that we are moving along safely. > If > > I think it, then you say it, then I can feel better as it has a > > higher chance of being true. It is a lack of trust in oneself. > This > > is the need for all the talk. > > > > Toby > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn <shawnregan> " > > <shawnregan> wrote: > > > for all the talk? > > > > > > Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Nisargadatta , " trem23 <inmadison@h...> " <inmadison@h...> wrote: > Jade, > Obviously you have some skills and knowledge, typing for one, or else > you wouldn't have gotten this far. Don't feed us this " don't know > anything " BS - and that is what it is - - plain ol' BS. > > Stop indulging. > > Larry > > > Larry, You have got me wrong. My knowing or not knowing is relative to the topic in discussion. The topic(s) of discussion in this forum is/are understanding the " self " . It is to this field of " self knowledge " I confess to know nothing in particular. Yes I can type this post and yes I can even perform the most intricate surgeries in the OT and oh yes i can also understand what BS stands for .I know all these and more....but what I am really after...I havent understood at all. Jade. P.S-thanks for your BS anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 .... et al. The difference between the subtlest thing physics has discovered and a thought, is like the difference between a brick and a thought. Dismissing the world as illusion is fruitless - since the thought or feeling of " world is illusion " (re)establishes the world as real. The intellect is in no position to make such a delineation, since the intellect itself is in the 'illusion'. So where does the notion 'world as illusion' come from? Shankara (aka Mr. Advaita) uses the term 'superimposition', that is, the world of appearances is superimposed upon Brahman. Brahman remains unchanged. (As images are reflected off the surface of a soap bubble, not changing the interior of the bubble. - Sir James Jeans) According to Shankara, the world is neither real, nor unreal, but disappears in the Light of Knowledge. 'Illusion' then is really a case of mistaken identity. We superimpose the ego upon the Ego, then moving outward, we impose the world upon Brahman...and end up with " this house is mine " . Which gets back to Jade's comments about not knowing anything - when in fact we do. I am not talking about skills and talents BUT the very simple abstract honest undeniable apparent Existence. Existence. And through it all, our true nature, the detached inner Self, lends consciousness to the mind and makes this whole show possible...and according to Nisargatta, this is all as close as your next breath. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 Dear trem, I think that the " illusion " bit is being misunderstood. The great sages say it is not as it seems, hence illusion....this is not to say it is unreal, but that it is known falsely, it is believed in falsely. It is mistaken as and for what is permanent and eternal. Phylosophy cannot explain the simplest of things, and so Ramana and Sri Nisargadatta avoided it and always pointed us back to our experience. The rock is there only because we are conscious of it. (Personal experience, not scientific fact, fot the time being) I find jades comment perfectly acceptable, as in we don't know What a single thing IS...(examine word symbols vs objects) Nobody knows what a tree IS for example. Shawn <g> on 3/7/03 10:07 AM, trem23 at inmadison wrote: > ... et al. > > The difference between the subtlest thing physics has discovered and > a thought, is like the difference between a brick and a thought. > Dismissing the world as illusion is fruitless - since the thought or > feeling of " world is illusion " (re)establishes the world as real. > The intellect is in no position to make such a delineation, since > the intellect itself is in the 'illusion'. > > So where does the notion 'world as illusion' come from? > > Shankara (aka Mr. Advaita) uses the term 'superimposition', that is, > the world of appearances is superimposed upon Brahman. Brahman > remains unchanged. (As images are reflected off the surface of a > soap bubble, not changing the interior of the bubble. - Sir James > Jeans) According to Shankara, the world is neither real, nor > unreal, but disappears in the Light of Knowledge. > > 'Illusion' then is really a case of mistaken identity. We > superimpose the ego upon the Ego, then moving outward, we impose the > world upon Brahman...and end up with " this house is mine " . > > Which gets back to Jade's comments about not knowing anything - when > in fact we do. I am not talking about skills and talents BUT the > very simple abstract honest undeniable apparent Existence. > Existence. And through it all, our true nature, the detached inner > Self, lends consciousness to the mind and makes this whole show > possible...and according to Nisargatta, this is all as close as your > next breath. > > Larry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 >>The difference between the subtlest thing physics has discovered and a thought, is like the difference between a brick and a thought. I agree Larry. >>Dismissing the world as illusion is fruitless... Who is dismissing the world as illusion? The world just is what it is. It is our internal resistance to what is that creates the illusion, it is our ego that fuels it. If we have many bills to pay, a family and not enough money to meet these commitments, we are about to be kicked out of our home and left on the street with our children, with no where to live... what is this pressure that we feel? Is this pressure real or illusory? Where does it exist? Where does it stem from? Is there actually pressure being placed on us, or is it an illusory product of the mind, of the ego, brought about by our resistance to what is real or what is actual? >> - since the thought or feeling of " world is illusion " (re)establishes the world as real. To quote Nisargadatta: " One thing is certain: the real is not imaginary, it is not a product of the mind. " >>The intellect is in no position to make such a delineation, since the intellect itself is in the 'illusion'. This is exactly why softly and gently letting go internally may be the only thing some individuals know to be totally true. The intellect can be in such a mess, can be so confused and so full of striving and trying to fix itself, so blinded by its own illusion, that it seems like nothing is known for sure. Just a mix up of uncertainty and confusion. The beautiful thing though, the most wonderful realization, is that nothing needs to be fixed, nothing in our intellect needs to change. We can warmly be in it, as is. And just perpetually and gently let go of our attachment to it, without ever wanting any of it to change. Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Nisargadatta , " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote: > ... et al. > > The difference between the subtlest thing physics has discovered and > a thought, is like the difference between a brick and a thought. > Dismissing the world as illusion is fruitless - since the thought or > feeling of " world is illusion " (re)establishes the world as real. > The intellect is in no position to make such a delineation, since > the intellect itself is in the 'illusion'. > > So where does the notion 'world as illusion' come from? > > Shankara (aka Mr. Advaita) uses the term 'superimposition', that is, > the world of appearances is superimposed upon Brahman. Brahman > remains unchanged. (As images are reflected off the surface of a > soap bubble, not changing the interior of the bubble. - Sir James > Jeans) According to Shankara, the world is neither real, nor > unreal, but disappears in the Light of Knowledge. > > 'Illusion' then is really a case of mistaken identity. We > superimpose the ego upon the Ego, then moving outward, we impose the > world upon Brahman...and end up with " this house is mine " . > > Which gets back to Jade's comments about not knowing anything - when > in fact we do. I am not talking about skills and talents BUT the > very simple abstract honest undeniable apparent Existence. > Existence. And through it all, our true nature, the detached inner > Self, lends consciousness to the mind and makes this whole show > possible...and according to Nisargatta, this is all as close as your > next breath. > > Larry Yes I understand all these . Caught in the cyclone of confusion I dwell at the periphery,which is knowledge based. From knowledge I appear to know a possibility of what could be at the calm and still centre or at the eye of the cyclone. Yes I can visualise and appear to have a very good idea what would happen if I move to the " CENTRE " . " Being " in the centre and visualising it is poles apart or really a dimensional shift all together. What we usually do is visualise about this and that ,talk in details about Quantum mechanics ,advaita,yoga and Brahman but *being* at the centre is a totally different proposition and this I call as *Knowing*.To know is to *be*. If you are not yourself at the centre free from the peripheral activities of associations,images and self-clinging ,you, I am sure wont claim to *know* . For instance what do you *know* about Nisargadatta`s world,the world which is impersonal and which contains us and everything. The world which Nisargadatta Maharaj says is the real world and is right in front of us waiting for us to arrive ... I confess i dont even know an infinitesmal fraction of his world ..and do you? What good is it to describe to me in details the nature of the colour *blue* without showing this colour to me and if I say I really dont know this colour unless I see it, would I be wrong?? Calling someone`s ignorance bull-shit may only mean 2 things...that " I " have " arrived " and " i " find your ignorance illusory and that it needs to be shed off.. or I am so engrossed with my knowledge gathered from literature,my fragmentary experiences,pseudo-realisations,someone else's true experiences,my own conditioning etc. that i claim to " know " and to be a possessor and the source of this " knowledge " . Which one could you be??? ( I am sure you would say I am niether...i am that which is witnessed and also the witness)..... :-) Jade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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