Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 On the eve of great Mahabharata battle, Arjuna asked his charioteer to drive their chariot out to the front line so he could look over the opposition he must face the next day. As he looked at his foes, he recognized his favorite teacher, Drona, and his beloved grand uncle, Bhishma, and many other relatives and friends. Horrified to realize that he must kill the very people he loved, he threw down his bow and arrow and told Krishna he would not fight. Krishna gave Arjuna numerous reasons to fight. You must fight, he told Arjuna, or it will look like you are a coward, and the people will say you were afraid to fight. You are a prince, and you must set a good example for other people in the kingdom. If the prince refuses to fight, who else can be counted on to enter the battle? Remember, he said, it is your dharma. You are a warrior, and a warrior must fight. You'll build up good karma if you fight, because there is nothing better for a warrior than a just cause for which to fight. He reminded Arjuna of samsara. A person who is born must die, and a person who dies will be rebom; the wise do not grieve over that, he said. Dying is like leaving aside wom-out garments, only instead, one is leaving aside a wom-out body. He instructed Arjuna that the only true essence is Brahman, and that Brahman cannot be killed. What dies is not essential. Further, he said, if you kill Drona, Bhishma and your cousins in battle, you enable them to build good karma, so you are really helping them. Krishna then discussed moksha, the ultimate aim of life. If one experiences moksha, Krishna reminded Arjuna, he breaks the chains of samsara and rejoins Brahman and is not rebom. Krishna explained four yogas or methods to achieve moksha. One method is the yoga of meditation. Another is the yoga of knowledge. These were the methods that traditionally only Brahmins followed. But Krishna assured Arjuna that there were two other methods for achieving moksha that anyone might follow: the yoga of holy indifference and the yoga of devotion. The yoga of holy indifference is called karma yoga. " You must be indifferent to the fruits of your actions, " he told Arjuna. " You have a right to the deeds, never to the fruits. If you can perform your deeds but are holy indifferent to the results of your actions, you will not build up any karma and you will not be rebom. Fight because you are a warrior, but don't mind what happens or who wins. On action alone be thy interest, never on its fruits. " A fourth method for reaching moksha was the yoga of devotion or bhakti yoga. " Be devoted to me, " Krishna said. " If you perform each act with your mind on the me alone, " Krishna promised, " you will experience moksha. " Devotion alone holds the key. Arjuna was not convinced, so Krishna finally revealed his true identity to the warrior. Krishna was really divinity who had taken the form of a charioteer to help the Pandavas re-establish righteousness. His revelation was like the light of a thousand suns in the sky. As Arjuna looked at him, he saw all the world, all the gods, the universe, the One. Filled with awe, Arjuna agreed to fight. <http://www.askasia.org/frclasrm/lessplan/l000059.htm> -------PEACE will come! Karta Ps: i hope, sorry for the timing and the apropos yes, Mike Bebe, God WILL save all those inoscent who where put in under fire by an INSANE TRYRON SADAM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 Karta, It is true that Krishna used many a trick to get Arjuna to fight, but there is one important difference. The Kurus (those he fought against) were lined up in battle gear and eager to fight (verse 1) Then in verse 12 & 13, the Kurus blew their conchs, then, Lord Krishna and Arjuna and their side blew their conchs in response. The 'righteous' are never aggressive - and they do not give the first signal for war. So now the discussion comes down to this - could this war have been averted, and, who started it and when? The Christians and Muslims have had many a war in the past - and this could be unstoppable uncompleted karma coming back. Peace, Larry Nisargadatta , " satkartar7 " <mi_nok> wrote: > On the eve of great Mahabharata > battle, Arjuna asked his charioteer > to drive their chariot out to the > front line so he could look over > the opposition he must face the > next day. > > As he looked at his foes, he > recognized his favorite teacher, > Drona, and his beloved grand uncle, > Bhishma, and many other relatives > and friends. Horrified to realize > that he must kill the very people > he loved, he threw down his bow > and arrow and told Krishna he would not fight. > > Krishna gave Arjuna numerous reasons > to fight. You must fight, he told > Arjuna, or it will look like you > are a coward, and the people will > say you were afraid to fight. > You are a prince, and you must > set a good example for other people > in the kingdom. If the prince > refuses to fight, who else can be > counted on to enter the battle? > > Remember, he said, it is your > dharma. You are a warrior, and a > warrior must fight. You'll build > up good karma if you fight, because > there is nothing better for a > warrior than a just cause for which > to fight. He reminded Arjuna of > samsara. A person who is born must > die, and a person who dies will > be rebom; the wise do not grieve > over that, he said. Dying is like > leaving aside wom-out garments, > only instead, one is leaving aside > a wom-out body. He instructed > Arjuna that the only true essence > is Brahman, and that Brahman > cannot be killed. > > What dies is not essential. Further, > he said, if you kill Drona, > Bhishma and your cousins in battle, > you enable them to build good > karma, so you are really helping them. > Krishna then discussed moksha, the > ultimate aim of life. If one > experiences moksha, Krishna > reminded Arjuna, he breaks the > chains of samsara and rejoins > Brahman and is not rebom. Krishna > explained four yogas or methods > to achieve moksha. One method is > the yoga of meditation. Another is > the yoga of knowledge. > > These were the methods that > traditionally only Brahmins > followed. But Krishna assured > Arjuna that there were two other > methods for achieving moksha that > anyone might follow: the yoga of > holy indifference and the yoga of > devotion. > > The yoga of holy indifference is > called karma yoga. " You must be > indifferent to the fruits of your > actions, " he told Arjuna. " You have > a right to the deeds, never to > the fruits. If you can perform > your deeds but are holy indifferent > to the results of your actions, > you will not build up any karma > and you will not be rebom. > > Fight because you are a warrior, > but don't mind what happens or > who wins. On action alone be thy > interest, never on its fruits. " > A fourth method for reaching > moksha was the yoga of devotion > or bhakti yoga. " Be devoted to > me, " Krishna said. " If you perform > each act with your mind on the > me alone, " Krishna promised, > " you will experience moksha. " > > Devotion alone holds the key. > Arjuna was not convinced, so > Krishna finally revealed his true > identity to the warrior. Krishna > was really divinity who had taken > the form of a charioteer to help > the Pandavas re-establish > righteousness. > > His revelation was like the light > of a thousand suns in the sky. > As Arjuna looked at him, he saw > all the world, all the gods, the > universe, the One. Filled with > awe, Arjuna agreed to fight. > > <http://www.askasia.org/frclasrm/lessplan/l000059.htm> > > -------PEACE will come! > Karta > > > > Ps: i hope, sorry for the timing and > the apropos > > yes, Mike Bebe, God WILL save all > those inoscent who where put in > under fire by an INSANE TRYRON SADAM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 Nisargadatta , " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote: > Karta, > It is true that Krishna used many a trick to get Arjuna to fight, > but there is one important difference. The Kurus (those he fought > against) were lined up in battle gear and eager to fight (verse 1) > Then in verse 12 & 13, the Kurus blew their conchs, then, Lord > Krishna and Arjuna and their side blew their conchs in response. > The 'righteous' are never aggressive - and they do not give the > first signal for war. So now the discussion comes down to this - > could this war have been averted, and, who started it and when? > > The Christians and Muslims have had many a war in the past - and > this could be unstoppable uncompleted karma coming back. > > Peace, > Larry > thanks for that larry, i know when i think of war my stance is that of a pacifest, total non-violence but then i am reminded that Krishna encouraged arjuna to fight, so i get a little baffled,,,now i hear that actually arjuna was really defending himself, so that makes it easier to understand do yu really think of the war in terms of muslims verses christians only..i'm sure they think of it in terms of muslims against non- muslim, they fight with the jews, the christais, the hindues and amongst themselvees....a very strange bunch, anyway, lets pray that this is over very fast...i feel so bad for the mothers and children over there, it must be HORRIBLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 I would not say this war is only the result of a strong influence of past karma between Christians and Muslims - I am recognizing that it could be a strong force. I would also add that if 50 men, men like Bush and his cronies, Hussein and his cronies, etc - - if one could hand pick about 50 men and put them on the moon, the remaining 6 billion of us would soon be standing around wondering what was all that stuff about? Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> wrote: > > Karta, > > It is true that Krishna used many a trick to get Arjuna to fight, > > but there is one important difference. The Kurus (those he fought > > against) were lined up in battle gear and eager to fight (verse 1) > > Then in verse 12 & 13, the Kurus blew their conchs, then, Lord > > Krishna and Arjuna and their side blew their conchs in response. > > The 'righteous' are never aggressive - and they do not give the > > first signal for war. So now the discussion comes down to this - > > could this war have been averted, and, who started it and when? > > > > The Christians and Muslims have had many a war in the past - and > > this could be unstoppable uncompleted karma coming back. > > > > Peace, > > Larry > > > thanks for that larry, i know when i think of war my stance is that > of a pacifest, total non-violence but then i am reminded that Krishna > encouraged arjuna to fight, so i get a little baffled,,,now i hear > that actually arjuna was really defending himself, so that makes it > easier to understand > do yu really think of the war in terms of muslims verses christians > only..i'm sure they think of it in terms of muslims against non- > muslim, they fight with the jews, the christais, the hindues and > amongst themselvees....a very strange bunch, > anyway, lets pray that this is over very fast...i feel so bad for the > mothers and children over there, it must be HORRIBLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 " trem23 " wrote: > I would not say this war is only the result of a strong influence of > past karma between Christians and Muslims - I am recognizing that it > could be a strong force. I would also add that if 50 men, men like > Bush and his cronies, Hussein and his cronies, etc - - if one could > hand pick about 50 men and put them on the moon, the remaining 6 > billion of us would soon be standing around wondering what was all > that stuff about? > > " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: " trem23 " <inmadison@h...> > wrote: Karta, It is true that Krishna used many a trick to get Arjuna to fight, but there is one important difference. The Kurus (those he fought against) were lined up in battle gear and eager to fight (verse 1) Then in verse 12 & 13, the Kurus blew their conchs, then, Lord Krishna and Arjuna and their side blew their conchs in response. The 'righteous' are never aggressive - and they do not give the first signal for war. So now the discussion comes down to this - could this war have been averted, Karta: NO > and, who started it and when? The Christians and Muslims have had many a war in the past - and this could be unstoppable uncompleted karma coming back. > Peace, > Larry Karta: i dunno Trem, but wasn't Mohamed the Profet; who went with a sword against the infidels? PEACE!! love, Karta > > thanks for that larry, i know when i think of war my stance is > that > > of a pacifest, total non-violence but then i am reminded that > Krishna > > encouraged arjuna to fight, so i get a little baffled,,,now i hear > > that actually arjuna was really defending himself, so that makes > it > > easier to understand > > do yu really think of the war in terms of muslims verses > christians > > only..i'm sure they think of it in terms of muslims against non- > > muslim, they fight with the jews, the christais, the hindues and > > amongst themselvees....a very strange bunch, > > anyway, lets pray that this is over very fast...i feel so bad for > the > > mothers and children over there, it must be HORRIBLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 on 3/22/03 3:34 PM, satkartar7 at mi_nok wrote: > Karta: i dunno Trem, but wasn't > Mohamed the Profet; who went with > a sword against the infidels? > > PEACE!! > love, Karta > > Karta, By taking sides, you perpetuate the karma. Who care what Karma, or whos? It is the result of not seeing God in All. It is the direct evidence of not being the Self, but pretending to be the individual. All must come to respect and understand " Namaste. " Namaste, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 3/22/03 3:34 PM, satkartar7 at mi_nok wrote: > > > Karta: i dunno Trem, but wasn't > > Mohamed the Profet; who went with > > a sword against the infidels? > > > > PEACE!! > > love, Karta > > > > > > Karta, > > By taking sides, you perpetuate the karma. Who care what Karma, or whos? It > is the result of not seeing God in All. It is the direct evidence of not > being the Self, but pretending to be the individual. All must come to > respect and understand " Namaste. " > > Namaste, > > Shawn yes, Shawn, but my post was rather about the FREEDOM to " act " what at times needs " individuals " PEACE! and love and a wish for a fast ending, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 In the South Asian history, the Bhagavad-Gita myth is the crucial dividing line that took a turning point from the mostly nondual Upanishads to the zealous, dualistic, highly popular devotional theistic sects. The evolution of the organized religions is not always in linear fashion but sometimes it is a case of reversal of fortunes. From the fortune of the highly advanced nondual (non)thinking mind to the more primitive, dualistic manipulation of evolution. No doubt nonduality of the Upanishads were highly advanced for that time...even advanced for our age that most of the West (and the Middle-East where the organized forms of the semitic monethistic dualism originated) still has no concept of what nonduality is. Perhaps at this stage of evolution, most people in the world have the need to worship and need to have a relationship with a personal god. This " normal " paranoid mind of " me " and " You " still have some mileage left. Krisha tells Arjuna to fight. When we look at Krishna as the voice of totality, the evolution, how we are supposed to be manipulated in a tribal warfare, it's no secret that Krisha is also whispering the same inspiring wisdom (???) to the ears of human apes on the other side...so they can kill each other. Have we really advanced that far from the days of tribal apes fighthing over territory and power? Other animals have no such conflict. A lion eats a man and that's the end of it. The human predator, after killing his victim in battlefield, will sit the wife and the child of his victim on his lap and cry with them over the memory of the slain. Such is the fate of morally conflicted ape who cannot give up the taste of blood and at the same time, have to invent " divine " myths to justify his irrational tendencies. Nonduality takes no position. Not even the position that " we have no position. " Human apes kill others mainly because they identify with the personal, tribal and the personal/tribal god. Are they really choosing or simply being manipulated by the ancient programs running in the mind, played like puppets? Once you're awake you simply watch others kill each other in a dream-like world where they as act if they're hypnotized, not knowing who they are. As Ramesh Balsekar says, " the core of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's teaching is the knowledge of one's own true identity. This knowledge is indeed the pivotal point around which moves everything. " Hur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 3/22/03 3:34 PM, satkartar7 at mi_nok wrote: > > > Karta: i dunno Trem, but wasn't > > Mohamed the Profet; who went with > > a sword against the infidels? > > > > PEACE!! > > love, Karta > > > > > > Karta, > > By taking sides, you perpetuate the karma. Who care what Karma, or whos? It > is the result of not seeing God in All. It is the direct evidence of not > being the Self, but pretending to be the individual. All must come to > respect and understand " Namaste. " > > Namaste, > > Shawn devi: they are all murderers over there, anyone killing, trying to kill, or supporting to kill, all murderers,,but hey, it's just the cosmic dance right? but your absolutley right, if more people heard the *good word* about self-realization, things may be different...sometimes i wonder and laugh, all these newly realized being sit around accumultating money, enough to travel to third world countries, why do they bother giving darshan to the ones who already have a clue? afraid of getting their hands dirty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 > > Nonduality takes no position> > Hur devi: where did you get that from...wayne liquorman? look, war is a terrible thing, you know it, hell is an awefull place to go to, tell me, you take no position when you see a child being raped,,you just stand there and say, i take no position, please, get real here...it's not true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 on 3/29/03 2:17 PM, devianandi at devi wrote: > devi: they are all murderers over there, anyone killing, trying to > kill, or supporting to kill, all murderers,,but hey, it's just the > cosmic dance right? > > but your absolutley right, if more people heard the *good word* about > self-realization, things may be different...sometimes i wonder and > laugh, all these newly realized being sit around accumultating money, > enough to travel to third world countries, why do they bother giving > darshan to the ones who already have a clue? afraid of getting their > hands dirty? Karta, Do you know how many buddhas there are in the peace marches? Have you heard anything that these wise ones say? Have you heard how their vision of life is one without other, how you are Already That? What are the ramifications of nonduality? Nisargadatta and Maharshi didn't go on any preaching or darshan tours. People came to them. Even so, who would listen to their talk. People who are having fun in life, whether they are dictators or those being oppressed, are too busy doing what they are doing, to derive any benefit from listening to Advaita Vedanta, or perhaps they do Already get beenfit that you can't see... Perhaps you should work harder to awaken so that *you* can then go give darshan to those intent on killing eachother? I tend to think if you ACTUALY SEE that ALL is ONE and we are NOT REALLY bodies, then the motivation for saving the world goes the way of the dinosaur. Om Shanti, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Devi, Hur is correct when he says NonDuality not not take a position, because by definition NonDuality only concerns itself with The One Reality - NonDuality only allows for and accepts only the Absolute. However, NonDuality is not a complete 'view' of Life - it (Vedanta) is only one of six sysytems of Indian Philosophy. Vedanta is the 6th System - it offers Ultimate Realization for any individual. In other words - Vedanta speaks of a highest platform of consciousness - and before one can 'earn' such a status - one has fulfilled the other 5 systems - one of which is Karma Minansa - which concerns itself with action. I can not speak for Nisargatta and his personnal Dharma - but for us householders, it is most natural to express our morality in speech and action. Peace, Larry Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: > > > > > Nonduality takes no position> > > > Hur > > devi: where did you get that from...wayne liquorman? look, war is a > terrible thing, you know it, hell is an awefull place to go to, tell > me, you take no position when you see a child being raped,,you just > stand there and say, i take no position, please, get real here...it's > not true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 devi: they are all murderers over there, anyone killing, trying to > > kill, or supporting to kill, all murderers,,but hey, it's just the > > cosmic dance right? > > > > but your absolutley right, if more people heard the *good word* about > > self-realization, things may be different...sometimes i wonder and > > laugh, all these newly realized being sit around accumultating money, > > enough to travel to third world countries, why do they bother giving > > darshan to the ones who already have a clue? afraid of getting their > > hands dirty? > > > Karta, devi: your confused, i'm devi who made those statement shawn: Do you know how many buddhas there are in the peace marches? devi: not at the moment, but if you want me to i could look into my crystal mind and find out.. shawn:Have you heard anything that these wise ones say? devi: i have heard what hundreds of wise ones say shawn :Have you heard how their vision of life is one without other, how you are Already That? devi: i have heard alot of different things relating to Enlightenment before and after shawn: What are the ramifications of nonduality? devi: i hardly remember what duality is, can you remind me? shawn: Nisargadatta and Maharshi didn't go on any preaching or darshan tours.People came to them. devi: and yogananada came to us and baba hari das came to us and shivananda came to us and vivekananda and shiva baba and this baba and that baba and the list goes on and on and on, wake up dear, you seem to have a limited view shawn: Even so, who would listen to their talk. devi: people who are ready to hear it shawn:People who are having fun in life,whether they are dictators or those being oppressed, are too busy doing what they are doing, to derive any benefit from listening to Advaita Vedanta devi: when i felt oppressed by my limited life i was open to hearig about anything that would liberate me from suffering,,,haloooooooo shawn:or perhaps they do Already get beenfit that you can't see... devi: this sentence is incomprehensible to me, what does it have to do with your previous sentence? shawn: Perhaps you should work harder to awaken so that *you* devi: oh, i thought i already alerted you to the fact that i am quiet awake to my real nature...to *THAT* shawn:to can then go give darshan to those intent on killing each other? devi: sounds like a plan shawn:I tend to think if you ACTUALY SEE that ALL is ONE and we are NOT REALLY bodies, then the motivation for saving the world goes the way of the dinosaur. devi: it's possible your right, that the motivation isn't there, but still that form might just surprise you and appear to try and save the world..learn yourself about God, then you'll know > Om Shanti, > > Shawn hari om devi how old are you shawn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 on 3/30/03 4:36 PM, devianandi at devi wrote: > > devi: your confused, i'm devi who made those statement No offense, right? ************** > shawn: Do you know how many buddhas there are in the peace marches? > devi: not at the moment, but if you want me to i could look into my > crystal mind and find out.. .......or perhaps your magic eightball? ********************* > shawn:Have you heard anything that these wise ones say? > devi: i have heard what hundreds of wise ones say ....so you you understand that the vision is one of wholeness, and that all is well, despite appearances? ********************* > shawn :Have you heard how their vision of life > is one without other, how you are Already That? > devi: i have heard alot of different things relating to > Enlightenment before and after Before and after what? ********************** > shawn: What are the ramifications of nonduality? > devi: i hardly remember what duality is, can you remind me? Duality for one thing causes you to butt up against my remarks, to take offense, no matter how subtle. ******************** > shawn: Nisargadatta and Maharshi didn't go on any preaching or > darshan tours.People came to them. > devi: and yogananada came to us and baba hari das came to us and > shivananda came to us and vivekananda and shiva baba and this baba > and that baba and the list goes on and on and on, wake up dear, you > seem to have a limited view I was reponding to your " getting their hands dirty " remark. You seem to take offense with some of these that parade about and I pointed to those that do not. *************** > shawn: Even so, who would listen to their talk. > devi: people who are ready to hear it Generally speaking, the 'taking it to them' stuff doesn't fly. The ones who are ready, start the Great Search. ***************** > shawn:People who are having fun in life,whether they are dictators or > those being oppressed, are too busy doing what they are doing, to > derive any benefit from listening to Advaita Vedanta > devi: when i felt oppressed by my limited life i was open to hearig > about anything that would liberate me from suffering,,,haloooooooo Was that a 'hello?' My........we are full of it, yes, too much Oprah? **************** > shawn:or perhaps they do Already get beenfit that you can't see... > devi: this sentence is incomprehensible to me, what does it have to > do with your previous sentence? It was part of it. Maharshi and others have said many times how their quiet transmission or blessing or whatever you wish to call it, does much for the peace of the world, although it cannot be seen or understood by most. Perhaps in the hundreds of ones you heard, one spoke of it? ****************** > shawn: Perhaps you should work harder to awaken so that *you* > devi: oh, i thought i already alerted you to the fact that i am quiet > awake to my real nature...to *THAT* > shawn:to can then go give darshan to those intent on killing each > other? > devi: sounds like a plan Excellent! Go for it! **************** > shawn:I tend to think if you ACTUALY SEE that ALL is ONE and we are > NOT REALLY bodies, then the motivation for saving the world goes the > way of the dinosaur. > devi: it's possible your right, that the motivation isn't there, but > still that form might just surprise you and appear to try and save > the world..learn yourself about God, then you'll know But I'm not the one complaining! ************************ >> Om Shanti, >> >> Shawn > > > hari om > devi > > how old are you shawn? ****************************** I'm married, so I can't go out with you....48....you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 3/30/03 4:36 PM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: > > > > > devi: your confused, i'm devi who made those statement > >shawn: No offense, right? devi: no, no offence but i was surprised that you made such a mistake shawn: Do you know how many buddhas there are in the peace marches? devi: not at the moment, but if you want me to i could look into my crystal mind and find out.. shawn:......or perhaps your magic eightball? devi: no majic eightballs, sometimes my spiritual powers kick in shawn:Have you heard anything that these wise ones say? devi: i have heard what hundreds of wise ones say shawn:so you you understand that the vision is one of wholeness, and that all is well, despite appearances? devi: yes, of course (except yesterday when my car broke down, and now i'm without it for God knows how long) shawn :Have you heard how their vision of life is one without other, how you are Already That? devi: i have heard alot of different things relating to Enlightenment before and after shawn: Before and after what? devi: before and after *enlightenement* shawn: What are the ramifications of nonduality? devi: i hardly remember what duality is, can you remind me? shawn:Duality for one thing causes you to butt up against my remarks, to take offense, no matter how subtle. devi: are you self-realized? shawn: Nisargadatta and Maharshi didn't go on any preaching or darshan tours.People came to them. devi: and yogananada came to us and baba hari das came to us and shivananda came to us and vivekananda and shiva baba and this baba and that baba and the list goes on and on and on, wake up dear, you seem to have a limited view shawna:I was reponding to your " getting their hands dirty " remark. You seem to take offense with some of these that parade about and I pointed to those that do not. devi:oh shawn: Even so, who would listen to their talk. devi: people who are ready to hear it shawna:Generally speaking, the 'taking it to them' stuff doesn't fly. The ones who are ready, start the Great Search. devi: hmmm shawn:People who are having fun in life,whether they are dictators or those being oppressed, are too busy doing what they are doing, to derive any benefit from listening to Advaita Vedanta devi: when i felt oppressed by my limited life i was open to hearig about anything that would liberate me from suffering,,,haloooooooo shawn:Was that a 'hello?' My........we are full of it, yes, too much Oprah? devi: i can't remember the last time i watched oprha for more then 3 minutes...but, i am a californian, and helllooooooo, is a popular way of saying *get real*. " those being oppressed, are too busy doing what they are doing, to derive any benefit from listening to Advaita Vedanta " i thought that statement wasn't very good. shawn:or perhaps they do Already get beenfit that you can't see... devi: this sentence is incomprehensible to me, what does it have to do with your previous sentence? shawn:It was part of it. Maharshi and others have said many times how their quiet transmission or blessing or whatever you wish to call it, does much for the peace of the world, although it cannot be seen or understood by most. Perhaps in the hundreds of ones you heard, one spoke of it? devi: oh, now i see what you meant. yes i have heard that many times shawn: Perhaps you should work harder to awaken so that *you* devi: oh, i thought i already alerted you to the fact that i am quiet awake to my real nature...to *THAT* shawn:to can then go give darshan to those intent on killing each other? devi: sounds like a plan shawn: Excellent! Go for it! devi " i have your permission and blessing? shawn:I tend to think if you ACTUALY SEE that ALL is ONE and we are NOT REALLY bodies, then the motivation for saving the world goes the way of the dinosaur. devi: it's possible your right, that the motivation isn't there, but still that form might just surprise you and appear to try and save the world..learn yourself about God, then you'll know shawn: But I'm not the one complaining! devi: we were talking about whether or not the motivation for saving the world goes the way of the dinosaur..i said that the motivation might not be there, but that you won't know for sure unless you get enlightened yourself and see what or if you are motivated towards anythng..with me, i get motivated quiet often, but i lose it very very quickly.. how old are you shawn? shawn: I'm married, so I can't go out with you....48....you? devi: huh, i am a female, couldn't you tell? i'm married too, 51, 5 children thanks for the nice morning chat are you enlightened, like nisargadatta, or ramana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 on 3/31/03 6:36 AM, devianandi at devi wrote: > devi: huh, i am a female, couldn't you tell? i'm married too, 51, 5 > children This body is male...... > thanks for the nice morning chat you're welcome. > are you enlightened, like nisargadatta, or ramana? Who's asking? Do you want something else to believe or disbelieve? ))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 devi: huh, i am a female, couldn't you tell? i'm married too, 51, 5 children shawn:This body is male...... devi: you spell your name like a girl thanks for the nice morning chat shawn:you're welcome. devi:are you enlightened, like nisargadatta, or ramana? shawn:Who's asking? devi: the great *beyond* shawn:Do you want something else to believe or disbelieve? devi: the great beyond has no wants or believes or disbeliefs, now please answer my question.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 on 3/31/03 4:14 PM, devianandi at devi wrote: > devi:are you enlightened, like nisargadatta, or ramana? > shawn:Who's asking? > devi: the great *beyond* > shawn:Do you want something else to believe or disbelieve? > devi: the great beyond has no wants or believes or disbeliefs, now > please answer my question.. Ahahahahahahahahahahah...now *that's* funny! The " great beyond " has some need to know? Describe to me what you think an enlightened being *is*. ))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 3/31/03 4:14 PM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: > > > devi:are you enlightened, like nisargadatta, or ramana? > > shawn:Who's asking? > > devi: the great *beyond* > > shawn:Do you want something else to believe or disbelieve? > > devi: the great beyond has no wants or believes or disbeliefs, now > > please answer my question.. > > > Ahahahahahahahahahahah...now *that's* funny! " great beyond " : takes a bow > " great beyond " has some need to know? the great beyond: no Describe to me what you think an enlightened being *is*. devi: it appears that an enlightened being is a body/mind complex that has one more added feature, the *knowledge* of its Real Being...and the ability to live from that...an enlightened being can say that it has nothing of its own or it can say that every is it's own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 on 4/1/03 6:50 AM, devianandi at devi wrote: >Shawn: Describe to me what you think an enlightened being *is*. > > devi: it appears that an enlightened being is a body/mind complex > that has one more added feature, the *knowledge* of its Real > Being...and the ability to live from that...an enlightened being can > say that it has nothing of its own or it can say that every is it's > own... **************** You appear to be guessing....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 4/1/03 6:50 AM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: > > >Shawn: Describe to me what you think an enlightened being *is*. > > > > devi: it appears that an enlightened being is a body/mind complex > > that has one more added feature, the *knowledge* of its Real > > Being...and the ability to live from that...an enlightened being can > > say that it has nothing of its own or it can say that every is it's > > own... > > **************** > > You appear to be guessing....... devi: well, does it sound right to you or not...what's does your thnking mind come up with for a descrition of an enlightened being...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Sorry to butt in but there are at least two problems with answering 'what is enlightenment?' Firstly, there are thousands of possible answers, all of which are correct, assuming no one is speaking. Secondly, enlightenment does not exist, just as the horizon doesn't exist. L<grin> Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > > on 4/1/03 6:50 AM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: > > > > >Shawn: Describe to me what you think an enlightened being *is*. > > > > > > devi: it appears that an enlightened being is a body/mind complex > > > that has one more added feature, the *knowledge* of its Real > > > Being...and the ability to live from that...an enlightened being > can > > > say that it has nothing of its own or it can say that every is > it's > > > own... > > > > **************** > > > > You appear to be guessing....... > > devi: well, does it sound right to you or not...what's does your > thnking mind come up with for a descrition of an enlightened > being...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 on 4/1/03 11:19 AM, trem23 at inmadison wrote: > Sorry to butt in but there are at least two problems with > answering 'what is enlightenment?' > > Firstly, there are thousands of possible answers, all of which are > correct, assuming no one is speaking. > Secondly, enlightenment does not exist, just as the horizon doesn't > exist. > > L<grin> Excellent Larry, you win.....uh....jeez, Johny what can we give to the guy who has everything and nothing? ;-) let's see what Johnny's bringing down the isle....it's....it's...ohhhhh, it's only a Mobius strip! A small token of our beginningless-endless nature. Thanks for playing! ))))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 > Sorry to butt in but there are at least two problems with > answering 'what is enlightenment?' > > Firstly, there are thousands of possible answers, all of which are > correct, assuming no one is speaking. > Secondly, enlightenment does not exist, just as the horizon doesn't > exist. > > L<grin> hi, the question was not *What is enlightenement*, skippy over there asked me what i think an enlightened being *IS* and i agree, there are alot of different descriptions...theres is even a magazine called *What Is Enlightenement* and to your secondly, how can you say *enlightenement doesn't exist, it exists as much as Love does...just take a look at all the *gurus* pointing to *IT* have you seen sarlos guru ratings...? there are over a thousand teacher and gurus listed there? > > > > > > > >Shawn: Describe to me what you think an enlightened being *is*. > > > > > > > > devi: it appears that an enlightened being is a body/mind > complex > > > > that has one more added feature, the *knowledge* of its Real > > > > Being...and the ability to live from that...an enlightened > being > > can > > > > say that it has nothing of its own or it can say that every is > > it's > > > > own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 on 4/1/03 2:22 PM, devianandi at devi wrote: > >> Sorry to butt in but there are at least two problems with >> answering 'what is enlightenment?' >> >> Firstly, there are thousands of possible answers, all of which are >> correct, assuming no one is speaking. >> Secondly, enlightenment does not exist, just as the horizon doesn't >> exist. >> >> L<grin> > hi, the question was not *What is enlightenement*, skippy over there > asked me what i think an enlightened being *IS* > and i agree, there are alot of different descriptions...theres is > even a magazine called *What Is Enlightenement* and to your secondly, > how can you say *enlightenement doesn't exist, it exists as much as > Love does...just take a look at all the *gurus* pointing to *IT* > > have you seen sarlos guru ratings...? there are over a thousand > teacher and gurus listed there? devi, I think you might try TA, but first you must confess that you have a problem, that's step 1. ....and don't just substitute coffee, that only aggrivates the brain. )))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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