Guest guest Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 > > I am sorry, Devi, no problem, your extremely nice compared to most of the other men on other lists.. I didn't mean to sggest You were arrogant, only that some things typed > appeared that way. You are right, it is my interpretation. If one is having > a delusion now, how can one admit to it? devi: no, i'm not having a delusion now, i used to have delusions, thinking i was a famous personality from previous lives.i've thought that i was an alien. or that realizaiton was had by one out of a million and i was lucky enought to be one of those one out of a million...would you like to meet some other realizers,,,theres jeff, gangak, judi, greg, geene jody? i've been talking with them since the summer..? We all know we exist. What is this knowledge you speak about? devi: we all may know that we exist but there are different levels of > > knowing this,,,enlightenment is the deepest level.. > > It is always perfectly obvious on every level, yes? It is the noticing that > makes the difference, and the disposition affects the abilty to notice. devi: i don't know if its perfectly obvious,,,if you've realized it on all the levels then why are you still confused? > > > It can be said to be extemely deep as at the Heart or Ground of Being, and > yet it is Nowhere in particular, so it must be locatable Everywhere, even > the shallowest level. this is the best description of realization that i'v seen: it was written by meher baba NIRVANA is that state where apparently " God Is Not " This is the only state where " God Is Not " and " Consciousness Is " this experience of the first stage of Fana is what Buddha emphasized but later on it was misinterpreted as Buddha having emphasized that there was no God the reality, however is that God Is; but in the absolute vacuum state of the first stage of Fana only consciousness remains experiencing " Absolute Vacuum " as it can never happen for God not to exist in the state of Nirvana God plays the part of consciousness itself which consciousness is sometimes termed super-consciousness or " Maha- Chaitanya " the second stage of Fana must immediately and invariable follow this Nirvan state and the " I Am God " state is experienced consciously the first stage of Fana is thus immediately followed by the second state of Fana called " Fana-Fillah " where the annihilated false and limited ego or " I " is replaced by the real and infinite, unlimited " I " on which the super-consciousness now becomes automatically focused simultaneously the " Absolute Vacuum " is automatically filled by the experience of the Infinite. the super-consciousness of God in the man state, as man now fixed and focused on the unlimited " I " spontaneously identifies man with God the Infinite. Simultaneously with the identification, the super-consciousness of God the Infinite experiences the " I Am God " state. This is the GOAL. attainment of the Goal is to attain the " Nirvikalpa-Samadhi " > > Is realisation dependent on anything? > One the one hand one could say it depends upon the disposition, the point of > view, the asana...but on the other hand, what can one say except that it > depends on Grace. What *is* Grace? devi: grace is something good that happends to you when you don't except it? > > > All the sages I have heard agree that NOTHING is added in > >> realisation. > > > > devi: i think its just *thought* semantics, i can say nothing is > > added but everything is removed..everything including body/mind > > complex...nirvana is NOTHING, maybe thats what they mean by NOTHING > > is added... > > > The one who is, is present now. > > > > devi: yes, but do you know that one at the deepest level of your being > > > I know Him at the shallowest level. > > <snip> > > my kids are pestering me so i can't look over what i said,maybe some > > of it is inacurate.. > > > don't sweat it...You're kids still at home with you? I thought they'd be all > grown by now, being you're so old an' all. ;-) very funny: my youngest is 14, my oldest is 27,,, > > That was to make up for the 'you spell your name like a girl' > nonsense!Hahahahahah devi:really, i've been watching you for some months now and i thought you were a very agressive woman...now that i see your a man, i understand and think that your aggressivness is low compared to some of the other baracuda on the internet... > > here's some love for you)))))))))))))) devi: oh, thank you, hugs to you > > BTW who's your Guru? > > )))))))))Skippy i say that Baba Hari Dass is my Guru, but i've had alot of help from other sourses...i actually didn't accept Him as my Guru till after realization..i think upon just seeing Him a few times pushed me over the edge..is your wife into nisargaddataa? where do you live? i'm in california and let me know if you want to meet some other realizers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Karta: wow Shawn! I never saw Grace described like this smiles: " > Yes, and more...it is the the power of Love freely flowing from us all and > everywhere available. It is Shakti, herself. It is the transforming Power of > what IS. > " > We're on the Big Island of > Hawaii. Karta: my Hungarian sufi poet friend Imre lives there <http://santmat-meditation.net/imresimon/> and do you know Jay Ludvick who has a wood factory: both live in Honaunau? he is a Quan Yin devotee we went to Washington DC to see Ching Hai together. I looove that Buddhist place there the Paleaku Garden and their yoga classes too. WHAT SMALL WORLD smies in Hilo I have an other famous Hungarian friend for 25 years Damascus http://members.tripod.com/thou-art Awareness-Love, Karta > > ))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 would you like to meet some other realizers,,,theres jeff, > > gangak, judi, greg, geene jody? i've been talking with them since the > > summer..? > > No,non ,no keep them away! lol devi: haha, i wish i hadn't have met them, some of them can be down right nasty...mean...haven't changed at all from the unenlighted beings they were.. shawn: We all know we exist. What is this knowledge you speak about? devi: we all may know that we exist but there are different levels of knowing this,,,enlightenment is the deepest level.. shawn: There are no levels ultimately. devi: i can see levels and i can see that there are no level ultimately devi: i don't know if its perfectly obvious,,,if you've realized it on all the levels then why are you still confused? shawn: Everytime i think I am this body-mind and I am a doer, there is confusion. devi: oh, well you just have to change the angle of your mind...think God does everything, it's true too, you have no choices in this life, everything is just happening. nisargaddatta says that he is just the looker...everything just happens..thats your whole problem, you still think you do something,,,just stop... shawn: Enlightenment to me, means this doesn't happen anymore at all. The ego is seen thru so completely that the natural state of Being Only is Ever-apparent and natural....this to me represents what I call enlightenment. But then again, I turn to Sri Ramana Maharshi and Mr. Natural for my inspiration. devi: oh i see, i understand what your saying..i think this has something to do with that adyashanti quote i pasted,,a few posts back,,about how there are alot of beings who have had an experience of the Self but the beauty of sri ramana was that He embodied It. well, i consider just having that nirvan/nirvikalp the goal, if someone didn't come back to the body after that expereince they would be considered muktied, liberated... that's enlightenement, but still, after enlightenement, and this is my undersatnding, and coming back into creation ,there for some of us are still residual karmas working themselves out. and those karmas are not selfish karmas, there special yoga yoga sanskaras...liberated sanskaras....you know i can't imagine you reaching that goal to be like ramana or nisargadatta until you retire from the world,,,so you better hope that what happens is that you make alot of money fast so you can retire and just sit and be that SELF.. > <snip> > > > > this is the best description of realization that i'v seen: it was > > written by meher baba > > > > > > >shawn: I don't agree with this at all. Sahaj is the highest and natural state > according to all the big guys I've read. Nirvikalpa denies the natural > perception of objects. devi: i think meher baba was a bigger guy then ramana or nisargaddats, no offence...and yes nirvana/nirvikalp is a formless place and like i said above, the ones who don't come back from that state are considered muktied....i don't have what meher baba says about shaja samadhi, but he does talk about it as being after the nirvan, nirvikalp,,if i have the time i'll look for it... > > > > >> Is realisation dependent on anything? > >> One the one hand one could say it depends upon the disposition, the > > point of > >> view, the asana...but on the other hand, what can one say except > > that it > >> depends on Grace. What *is* Grace? > > > > > > devi: grace is something good that happends to you when you don't > > except it? > > Yes, and more...it is the the power of Love freely flowing from us all and > everywhere available. It is Shakti, herself. It is the transforming Power of > what IS. devi: yes, that nice description > I really don't like fighting, and I realise that Any ideas I may have that > are so strong as to cause an emotional flustering when contradicted by > another is a sign of attatchment and identification that needs to be looked > at more closely by myself. devi: why do you have to look at it.? just stop thinking > > That being said, I do think it serves a pupose to argue nicely without > getting personal and without malice. And if all this spiritual stuff does > not end up in love, then it is really worthless from the get-go, hmmm? > )))))))))))) devi: i totally agree, i'm sad that those other realizers are the way they are, they make it difficult for me to love them, but sometimes i tell myself that i'm not supposed to love people, i'm supposed to love God, supposed to just be love without necessarily seeking iton the outside..> > > i say that Baba Hari Dass is my Guru, but i've had alot of help from > > other sourses...i actually didn't accept Him as my Guru till after > > realization..i think upon just seeing Him a few times pushed me over > > the edge..is your wife into nisargaddataa? where do you live? i'm in > > california > > and let me know if you want to meet some other realizers, > > > My wife is not much interested in this stuff. We're on the Big Island of > Hawaii. > > ))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 4/2/03 9:39 AM, shawn at shawn@w... wrote: > > > > >> i say that Baba Hari Dass is my Guru, but i've had alot of help from > >> other sourses...i actually didn't accept Him as my Guru till after > >> realization..i think upon just seeing Him a few times pushed me over > >> the edge..is your wife into nisargaddataa? where do you live? i'm in > >> california > >> and let me know if you want to meet some other realizers, > > > I'm confused again. ;-) > > You say you didn't accept him till *after* realisation and yet then you say > seeing him pushed you over. > > )))Shawn it makes sense..i went to see Him a few times, three, maybe four..i didn't think of Him as my guru yet....then i had my *experience* (it's possible that he thought of me and that's what pushed me over) and then after that, was when i need HIm because i was pretty disorientated..i realized him to be my Guru.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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