Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Ramesh frequently talks about the mind becoming involved with thoughts in a way that reinforces and perpetuates them and thereby causes suffering. He terms this the " horizontal " involvement of the mind with the thoughts, horizontal referring to occurring within time. (He refers to the spontaneous appearance of a thought from outside of time as a " vertical " appearance.) For example, a common experience is one in which the memory of an unpleasant situation spontaneously (vertically) appears in the mind, triggering the same emotions also to reappear. The mind becomes (horizontally) involved with the experience, which is replayed over and over with the purpose of validating one¹s own actions and, if there is another person, invalidating the other person¹s actions. This involvement is equivalent to what we called identification at the third level in Section 11.2. The mind takes possession of (identifies with) the victim image and all of its attributes of innocence, helplessness, and self-righteousness. Ramesh and Nisargadatta Maharaj also call this " taking delivery " of a thought. Ramesh teaches that this horizontal involvement, or identification, stops when some form of understanding of the teaching subsequently arises spontaneously (vertically) and cuts it off. The understanding can take the form of a concept or feeling or simply the sudden awareness that the mind has become involved and is causing suffering. As the seeker matures, the involvement becomes cut off earlier and earlier, until it arises only momentarily and then is cut off. This is the stage just prior to awakening and is described by Ramesh as the " who cares? " state (see p. 132 of Ramesh's book, Who Cares?). from: http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/ chapter20.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 i have no idea about horozontal or vertical thought, just meditate yourself into oblivion smiles i would like to just stick with nisargaddat, nisargadatta: " if you have a body, you must have a soul, here your simile of a nest of boxes applies...But here and now, through all your bodies and souls shines awareness, the pure light of chit. Hold on to it unswervingly. Without awareness, the body would not last a second. There is in the body a current of energy, affection and intelligence, which guids, maintains and energizes the body. Discover that current and stay with it. Of course, all these are manners of speaking. Words are as much a barrier, as a bridge. Find the spark of life that weaves the tissues ofyou body and be with it. It is the only reality the body has... Q. What happens to that spark of life after death? nisargadatta: It is beyond time. Birth and death are but points in tmie. Life weaves eternally its many webs...The weaving is in time, but life itself is timeless. Whatever name and shape you give to its expressions, it is like the ocean - never changing, ever changing > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 thanks for this, Shawn awareness-in the-now, Karta <shawn@w...> wrote: > > Ramesh frequently talks about the mind becoming involved with thoughts in= a > way that reinforces and perpetuates them and thereby causes suffering. He= > terms this the " horizontal " involvement of the mind with the thoughts, > horizontal referring to occurring within time. (He refers to the spontane= ous > appearance of a thought from outside of time as a " vertical " appearance.)= > For example, a common experience is one in which the memory of an unpleas= ant > situation spontaneously (vertically) appears in the mind, triggering the > same emotions also to reappear. The mind becomes (horizontally) involved > with the experience, which is replayed over and over with the purpose of > validating one¹s own actions and, if there is another person, invalidatin= g > the other person¹s actions. This involvement is equivalent to what we cal= led > identification at the third level in Section 11.2. The mind takes possess= ion > of (identifies with) the victim image and all of its attributes of > innocence, helplessness, and self-righteousness. Ramesh and Nisargadatta > Maharaj also call this " taking delivery " of a thought. > > Ramesh teaches that this horizontal involvement, or identification, stops= > when some form of understanding of the teaching subsequently arises > spontaneously (vertically) and cuts it off. The understanding can take th= e > form of a concept or feeling or simply the sudden awareness that the mind= > has become involved and is causing suffering. As the seeker matures, the > involvement becomes cut off earlier and earlier, until it arises only > momentarily and then is cut off. This is the stage just prior to awakenin= g > and is described by Ramesh as the " who cares? " state (see p. 132 of Rames= h's > book, Who Cares?). > > from: > http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/ > > chapter20.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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