On change...

[Guest guest]

Interesting Pete.

 

Tell me, do you think there is such a thing as change? Does anything

in this world even change? If we take away memory, how can change

exist? Change, by it's very nature, must take into account what is

not now. Change can not exist in the present moment alone. It must

include what is not with what is. Change is reality blurred into a

comparison with what is not real. Take out what is not real and you

take out change.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Toby

 

 

>

> Hi Shawn,

>

> Good point. Since you compared life to a movie, let's compare

the 'I'

> with a re-run. When something intense is happening there is no ' I

feeling'

> but the moment it is over, or becomes less intense the mind starts

rerunning

> the incident. If the incident has been pleasurable, to enjoy it

again through

> knowing; if it has been bad with the purpose to exorcise it, to

prevent

> its repetition. This process is the past assimilating the new,

turning it

> into a manageable memory. That is the 'I' building process at its

minimum.

> If, the intense experience has been of a spiritual nature, the 'I'

might be

> tented to say " I'm enlightened " which in reality amount to

saying ' I don't

> exist' which, of course ,is an absurd phrase. If that were true,

nothing would have

> been said because there would have been no 'I' to say it. So anyone

saying

> I'm enlightened is either mistaken, or giving the word a meaning

other than complete

> unity.

>

> Pete

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >

> > Hi Shawn,

> >

> > Good point. Since you compared life to a movie, let's compare

> the 'I'

> > with a re-run. When something intense is happening there is no '

I

> feeling'

> > but the moment it is over, or becomes less intense the mind

starts

> rerunning

> > the incident. If the incident has been pleasurable, to enjoy it

> again through

> > knowing; if it has been bad with the purpose to exorcise it, to

> prevent

> > its repetition. This process is the past assimilating the new,

> turning it

> > into a manageable memory. That is the 'I' building process at its

> minimum.

> > If, the intense experience has been of a spiritual nature,

the 'I'

> might be

> > tented to say " I'm enlightened " which in reality amount to

> saying ' I don't

> > exist' which, of course ,is an absurd phrase. If that were true,

> nothing would have

> > been said because there would have been no 'I' to say it. So

anyone

> saying

> > I'm enlightened is either mistaken, or giving the word a meaning

> other than complete

> > unity.

> >

> > Pete

 

pge.223

 

question: was your realiztion sudden or gradual?

nisargadatta: Neither. One is what one is timeleslessly. It is the

mind that realizes as and when it get cleared of desires and fears...

 

any realized being can say i eat, i sleep, i am a blond, i am

realized.

 

in the past, spiritual experiences remained a private affair, thats

not the case today..after you leave creation in nirvakalpa samadhi

and after you come back to creation from nirvikalpa samadhi, there is

a very small ego left. that very small ego can say i am enlightenend

and it would be the truth

 

have you actually read nissargadatta....on every page he say I I I,

 

here is another example:

question: At this very moment who talks, if not the mind?

nisargadatta: that which hears the question answers it.

qustion: But who is it?

Nisargadatta: Not who, but what. I am not a person in your sences of

the word, thought i may appear a person to you..I am that infinite

ocean of consciuosness in which all happens. I am also beyond all

existence and cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing i

feel separate from, hence i am all. No this is me, so i am nothing.

The same powr that makes the fire burn and the water folw, the seeds

sprout and the trees grow, makes me answer your qustions. There is

nothing personal about me, thought the language and style may appear

personal about me. A person is a set pattern of desires and thoughts

and resulting actions: there is no such pattern in my case. There is

nothing i desire or fear- how can there be a pattern?

pg 222...i am that