Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 Hi Devi, >devi: who do you think is enlightened,? P: No one is, and everybody is. See, everybody experiences these moments of no self-consciousness, and open center-less awareness. Certain organisms recognize those moments as that which they are seeking and clear the obstructions to their recurrence, so that the obstructing periods become less and less. >D: is adyashanti enlightened, according to you no,,,because after his enlightenement he went back and remembered his childhood growing up and things his teacher said to HIm. and put it in a written form...even nisargadatta always remembered what His Guru said to HIm..it seems to me that you think enlightenement is amnesia? when i went to see my Guru after many >years of not seeing Him, He remembered me from the past... P: I know nothing of adyashanti so I couldn’t say. But you are right, memory doesn’t vanish, and I didn’t say it did. It is the sense of ownership, which vanishes. What we remember about our life becomes just as unimportant as what we remember about a novel we once read. So, it is this lack of a belief in a center, which could own enlightenment, delusion, insults, praise, or any other mental stuff that makes room for luminous unlimited space. To claim that space for a particular body is as futile as a monkey peeing on a tree where a leopard sleeps. Thanks for your thoughts, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 > Hi Devi, hi pete, devi: who do you think is enlightened,? P: No one is, and everybody is. See, everybody experiences these moments of no self-consciousness, and open center-less awareness. Certain organisms recognize those moments as that which they are seeking and clear the obstructions to their recurrence, so that the obstructing periods become less and less. devi: you didn't understand my question..smiles..i was wondering which *realized beings* that we can read about or talk about such as nisargadatta, or ramana or meher baba..do you consider enlightenend..also, please see below my criteria to decide whether someone has reached liberation (which is full and total enlightenement)...you see that description of " everybody experiences these moments of no self-consciousness, and open center-less awareness " seems to be not even close to *enlightenement* > > > > >D: is adyashanti enlightened, > according to you no,,,because after his enlightenement he went back > and remembered his childhood growing up and things his teacher said > to HIm. and put it in a written form...even nisargadatta always > remembered what His Guru said to HIm..it seems to me that you think enlightenement is amnesia? when i went to see my Guru after many years of not seeing Him, He remembered me from the past... > P: I know nothing of adyashanti so I couldn't say. devi: well, i asked so i could have a reference point when communicating with you..who do you know about? P. But you are right, memory doesn't vanish, and I didn't say it did. It is the sense of ownership, which vanishes. devi: how do you know that,,,your speaking as if you are *full and totally enlightenend* are you? p.What we remember about our life becomes just as unimportant as what we remember about a novel we once read. devi: ok, i agree, but do you know why that is? p. So, it is this lack of a belief in a center, which could own enlightenment, delusion, insults, praise, or any other mental stuff that makes room for luminous unlimited space. To claim that space for a particular body is as futile as a monkey peeing on a tree where a leopard sleeps. devi: i don't understand this *claiming space* idea..what do you mean? and do me a favor,,talking about monkey pee is offencsive to me, keep the topic to human beings and leave out bodily functions.. NIRVANA is that state where apparently " God Is Not " This is the only state where " God Is Not " and " Consciousness Is " this experience of the first stage of Fana is what Buddha emphasized but later on it was misinterpreted as Buddha having emphasized that there was no God the reality, however is that God Is; but in the absolute vacuum state of the first stage of Fana only consciousness remains experiencing " Absolute Vacuum " as it can never happen for God not to exist in the state of Nirvana God plays the part of consciousness itself which consciousness is sometimes termed super-consciousness or " Maha- Chaitanya " the second stage of Fana must immediately and invariable follow this Nirvan state and the " I Am God " state is experienced consciously the first stage of Fana is thus immediately followed by the second state of Fana called " Fana-Fillah " where the annihilated false and limited ego or " I " is replaced by the real and infinite, unlimited " I " on which the super-consciousness now becomes automatically focused simultaneously the " Absolute Vacuum " is automatically filled by the experience of the Infinite. the super-consciousness of God in the man state, as man now fixed and focused on the unlimited " I " spontaneously identifies man with God the Infinite. Simultaneously with the identification, the super-consciousness of God the Infinite experiences the " I Am God " state. This is the GOAL. attainment of the Goal is to attain the " Nirvikalpa-Samadhi " i probably should reword this leaving out the sufi terms such as fanah filla..by the way, i had this exact experience and i do belive that anyone claiming enlightenement would be able to agree that this is the best description of what to expect to happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 on 4/17/03 6:45 AM, devianandi at devi wrote: > devi: i don't understand this *claiming space* idea..what do you > mean? and do me a favor,,talking about monkey pee is offencsive to > me, keep the topic to human beings and leave out bodily functions.. How can the Self be offended? I found the monkey peeing scenario funny as can be! )))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 4/17/03 6:45 AM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: > > > devi: i don't understand this *claiming space* idea..what do you > > mean? and do me a favor,,talking about monkey pee is offencsive to > > me, keep the topic to human beings and leave out bodily functions.. > > > How can the Self be offended? devi: when you get realized you'll know the answer to that I found the monkey peeing scenario funny as > can be! devi: it figures that you would find it funny,,that's becuase you haven't realized the Self yet.. smiles > > > )))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 on 4/17/03 2:35 PM, devianandi at devi wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: >> on 4/17/03 6:45 AM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: >> >>> devi: i don't understand this *claiming space* idea..what do you >>> mean? and do me a favor,,talking about monkey pee is offencsive to >>> me, keep the topic to human beings and leave out bodily > functions.. >> >> >> How can the Self be offended? > > devi: when you get realized you'll know the answer to that > > > > I found the monkey peeing scenario funny as >> can be! > > devi: it figures that you would find it funny,,that's becuase you > haven't realized the Self yet.. > > smiles arrogant too? Figures! )))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 on 4/17/03 2:35 PM, devianandi at devi wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: >> on 4/17/03 6:45 AM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: >> >>> devi: i don't understand this *claiming space* idea..what do you >>> mean? and do me a favor,,talking about monkey pee is offencsive to >>> me, keep the topic to human beings and leave out bodily > functions.. >> >> >> How can the Self be offended? > > devi: when you get realized you'll know the answer to that > > > > I found the monkey peeing scenario funny as >> can be! > > devi: it figures that you would find it funny,,that's becuase you > haven't realized the Self yet.. > > smiles >> >> >> )))))))))Shawn Please explain, oh enlightened one! I understand the Self to be untouchable, changeless, etc, who is it that gets offended? Could it be perhaps your GIGANTIC ego? ))))Shawn PS Monkey piss ;-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 > ))))Shawn > > PS Monkey piss ;-0 Bawhahahaha! Thanks Shawn, that really made my morning! Devi, have you had any contact with Tony Parsons? I'd really recommend it. Out of all the enlightened teachers out there, he is my favourite to date. He his very direct, and comes across as " normal " . Listening to some of his cassette tapes, he even enjoys offencive jokes! (can you imagine that Devi?!) There is a sample called " no guru " on his web site which is kind of relevant to you. http://www.theopensecret.com/audio1.htm Stuart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 Thanks Stuart. I had a good look at the site. Great read. Have you got his book? Ever met him? Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 On Fri, 2003-04-18 at 12:31, toby20042004 wrote: > Thanks Stuart. > > I had a good look at the site. Great read. Have you got his book? > Ever met him? > > Toby Never met Tony Parsons, but I read his book " As it Is " which I stumbled across on Amazon.com. Tony is very direct, and down to earth, and never holds back unlike say Eckhart Tolle. His tapes are recordings of question & answer sessions, which are very interesting. You are left feeling that there is nothing you can do, which as he says is his objective. His clarity on " what is " is very apparent, it's like there is no escape for the ego. Misguided questions, are quickly dissected and shown to be as such. Unfortunately you can't always hear the questions without cranking up the volume, but I'd recommended anyone interested should as least listen to the samples on his site. Above all, Tony shows us he is nothing special. He watches TV, and enjoys a good joke like everyone else. Stuart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 hey, would you guys like to look at some men fucking each other? i'll go find you some really disgusting picture for you to look at..ok ok > > > Bawhahahaha! Thanks Shawn, that really made my morning! > > Devi, have you had any contact with Tony Parsons? I'd really recommend > it. devi: well as you can see from my previous post i was not at all impressed with tony parsons..he falls short of enlightenement...let's put it this way,,western men don't usually appeal or impress me Out of all the enlightened teachers out there, he is my favourite > to date. He his very direct, and comes across as " normal " . devi: you should go on a retreat with him.. Listening to some of his cassette tapes, he even enjoys offencive jokes! (can you > imagine that Devi?!) devi: you are such a moron, you simply have no idea about women, are you a homosexual? There is a sample called " no guru " on his web site > which is kind of relevant to you. > > http://www.theopensecret.com/audio1.htm > > > Stuart. devi: again moron: the teachings your attracted to are not the teachings i am attracted to,,,stop trying to advise me about anything,,i am way beyond anything you can even imagine yet..no less not imagine yet oh, and i'm calling you a moron, more as a term of endearment,,,i really don't think your a moron.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 Nisargadatta , Stuart Johnson <stuart@s...> wrote: > On Fri, 2003-04-18 at 12:31, toby20042004 wrote: > > Thanks Stuart. > > > > I had a good look at the site. Great read. Have you got his book? > > Ever met him? > > > > Toby > > > Never met Tony Parsons, but I read his book " As it Is " which I stumbled > across on Amazon.com. Tony is very direct, and down to earth, and never > holds back unlike say Eckhart Tolle. His tapes are recordings of > question & answer sessions, which are very interesting. You are left > feeling that there is nothing you can do, which as he says is his > objective. His clarity on " what is " is very apparent, it's like there > is no escape for the ego. Misguided questions, are quickly dissected > and shown to be as such. Unfortunately you can't always hear the > questions without cranking up the volume, but I'd recommended anyone > interested should as least listen to the samples on his site. > > Above all, Tony shows us he is nothing special. He watches TV, and > enjoys a good joke like everyone else. > > Stuart. devi: there is no such thing as a misguided question...usually, the person being asked the question just simply doesn't know the answer..and won't admit to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 > devi: well as you can see from my previous post i was not at all > impressed with tony parsons..he falls short of enlightenement...let's > put it this way,,western men don't usually appeal or impress me The reason why I suggested Tony Parsons to you, was because he doesn't impress. He speaks with clarity about " what is " , and turns your attention to that, and not the " Tony Parsons/mind body " . If his teaching doesn't " click " with you, then thats fine. He is, as you point out a Western, and thus probably better for the western mind. Another fine teacher is Ken Wilber. He tries to marry both easten and western thinking in a very clear and seemingly logical way. His book No Boundary " is remarkable. In the last two chapters he talks about " wave jumping " . We are all (consciously or unconsciously) seeking the next big wave... the wettest wave....the wave that will finally consume us.... except it never ends, and as soon as we give up, we fall in to the water and drown into nothingness (enlightenment). > Out of all the enlightened teachers out there, he is my favourite > > to date. He his very direct, and comes across as " normal " . > > devi: you should go on a retreat with him.. Mmmm, i'll think I will stick to armchair enlightenment thanks. > > Listening to some of his cassette tapes, he even enjoys offencive > jokes! (can you > > imagine that Devi?!) > > devi: you are such a moron, you simply have no idea about women, are > you a homosexual? Ha ha.... no your right, I don't understand women! Always moaning they are.... " have you put my shelves up yet " , " have you put the dustbin (trash) out " , " you left the toilet seat up again " .... > devi: again moron: the teachings your attracted to are not the > teachings i am attracted to,,,stop trying to advise me about > anything,,i am way beyond anything you can even imagine yet..no less > not imagine yet Ignore me then....or maybe your ego won't let you. > oh, and i'm calling you a moron, more as a term of endearment,,,i > really don't think your a moron.. Thank you. Isn't consciousness wonderful? Stuart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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