Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Toby, Regarding the question of free will, this came up on the NDS Highlights recently: However, for what it's worth, here is a quote from The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words about the question of predestination. " It is as though a group of people who had never heard of radio were to stand around one, arguing whether the man in it has to sing what the transmitting station tells him to or whether he can change parts of the songs. The answer is that there is no man in the equipment, and therefore the question does not arise. " Thanks to AdvaitGirl on NDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > Toby, > > Regarding the question of free will, this came up on the NDS Highlights > recently: > > > > However, for what it's worth, here is a quote from The Teachings of > Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words about the question of > predestination. > > " It is as though a group of people who had never heard of radio were > to stand around one, arguing whether the man in it has to sing what > the transmitting station tells him to or whether he can change parts > of the songs. The answer is that there is no man in the equipment, > and therefore the question does not arise. " > > Thanks to AdvaitGirl on NDS thanks for this Shawn, you should invite the AdvaitaGirl here; maybe than Nisargadatta and Hur will come back too <grin> I think they fled from this club Karta :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 on 4/19/03 9:48 AM, satkartar7 at mi_nok wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: >> Toby, >> >> Regarding the question of free will, this came up on the NDS Highlights >> recently: >> >> >> >> However, for what it's worth, here is a quote from The Teachings of >> Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words about the question of >> predestination. >> >> " It is as though a group of people who had never heard of radio were >> to stand around one, arguing whether the man in it has to sing what >> the transmitting station tells him to or whether he can change parts >> of the songs. The answer is that there is no man in the equipment, >> and therefore the question does not arise. " >> >> Thanks to AdvaitGirl on NDS > > > thanks for this Shawn, you should > invite the AdvaitaGirl here; maybe > than Nisargadatta and Hur will come > back too <grin> > > I think they fled from this club > > Karta :-) Why? You're enough girl for me. ;-) ))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Thanks Shawn. An interesting analogy, but an analogy just the same. Comparing a human with a radio is like comparing water with petrol. Put a flame to each and you will notice a small difference. The more we discuss, the more I feel it is illustrated that words are simply not enough to communicate with acurately. Let's say someone stands in a fruit shop, trying to decide whether to buy a banana or a peach to eat. Whether the outcome of this activity is the result of a human choice or God's will, what is the difference? The activity is the same and the outcome is the same, so what difference does it make if it was predestined or not? Why even spend time entertaining such a concept, other than simply for intellectual stimulation? These are just concepts emposed on reality. The reality itself does not change either way. It reminds me of when a friend of mine once said, " Every word ever written is a lie. " From an " absolute " perspective, the statement is correct, because how can any words fully capture, embrace and explain " absolute Truth " ? And anything less than absolute Truth must to some extent be a lie. From a relative perspective, the above statement is false, as I can write, " I own a computer " and I am not lying. This statement is true. It seems to be similar to us discussing predestination. The reality stays the same, but we are just playing with concepts and perspectives. What are your thoughts on this? Toby > > shawn [sMTP:shawn] > Saturday, April 19, 2003 7:21 PM > Nisargadatta > Radical Ramana strikes again-regarding free will > > Toby, > > Regarding the question of free will, this came up on the NDS Highlights > recently: > > > > However, for what it's worth, here is a quote from The Teachings of > Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words about the question of > predestination. > > " It is as though a group of people who had never heard of radio were > to stand around one, arguing whether the man in it has to sing what > the transmitting station tells him to or whether he can change parts > of the songs. The answer is that there is no man in the equipment, > and therefore the question does not arise. " > > Thanks to AdvaitGirl on NDS > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Toby, I thought it is interesting that the *whole perspetive* of Ramana is different. People are an illusion. To atually see the truth of this beyond a shadow of a doubt is radial! He is saying that when the Truth is seen or Reality is seen, then the whole question of free will is undermined. There is in reality no one there to have free will or not! )))))))Shawn on 4/21/03 6:53 PM, Wilson, Toby at toby.wilson wrote: > > Thanks Shawn. An interesting analogy, but an analogy just the same. > Comparing a human with a radio is like comparing water with petrol. Put a > flame to each and you will notice a small difference. > > The more we discuss, the more I feel it is illustrated that words are simply > not enough to communicate with acurately. > > Let's say someone stands in a fruit shop, trying to decide whether to buy a > banana or a peach to eat. Whether the outcome of this activity is the result > of a human choice or God's will, what is the difference? The activity is the > same and the outcome is the same, so what difference does it make if it was > predestined or not? Why even spend time entertaining such a concept, other > than simply for intellectual stimulation? These are just concepts emposed on > reality. The reality itself does not change either way. > > It reminds me of when a friend of mine once said, " Every word ever written is > a lie. " > >> From an " absolute " perspective, the statement is correct, because how can any >> words fully capture, embrace and explain " absolute Truth " ? And anything less >> than absolute Truth must to some extent be a lie. > >> From a relative perspective, the above statement is false, as I can write, " I >> own a computer " and I am not lying. This statement is true. > > It seems to be similar to us discussing predestination. The reality stays the > same, but we are just playing with concepts and perspectives. > > What are your thoughts on this? > > Toby > > > > >> >> shawn [sMTP:shawn] >> Saturday, April 19, 2003 7:21 PM >> Nisargadatta >> Radical Ramana strikes again-regarding free will >> >> Toby, >> >> Regarding the question of free will, this came up on the NDS Highlights >> recently: >> >> >> >> However, for what it's worth, here is a quote from The Teachings of >> Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words about the question of >> predestination. >> >> " It is as though a group of people who had never heard of radio were >> to stand around one, arguing whether the man in it has to sing what >> the transmitting station tells him to or whether he can change parts >> of the songs. The answer is that there is no man in the equipment, >> and therefore the question does not arise. " >> >> Thanks to AdvaitGirl on NDS >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > Toby, > > I thought it is interesting that the *whole perspetive* of Ramana is > different. People are an illusion. To atually see the truth of this beyond a > shadow of a doubt is radial! He is saying that when the Truth is seen or > Reality is seen, then the whole question of free will is undermined. There > is in reality no one there to have free will or not! > > )))))))Shawn devi: the word illusion is misleading, dream or magic show is really more appropriate. and to say that there is no one there to have free will or not, doesn't sound right to me either, there is a SElf there, a God there, and it functions, only it functions differnet from what an unenlightened being knows and it can't be described... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 on 4/23/03 8:22 AM, devianandi at devi wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: >> Toby, >> >> I thought it is interesting that the *whole perspetive* of Ramana is >> different. People are an illusion. To atually see the truth of this > beyond a >> shadow of a doubt is radial! He is saying that when the Truth is > seen or >> Reality is seen, then the whole question of free will is > undermined. There >> is in reality no one there to have free will or not! >> >> )))))))Shawn > > devi: the word illusion is misleading, dream or magic show is really > more appropriate. > and to say that there is no one there to have free will or not, > doesn't sound right to me either, > there is a SElf there, a God there, and it functions, only it > functions differnet from what an unenlightened being knows and it > can't be described... Your great wisdom is only apparently non-existent. ))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 4/23/03 8:22 AM, devianandi at devi@p... wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > >> Toby, > >> > >> I thought it is interesting that the *whole perspetive* of Ramana is > >> different. People are an illusion. To atually see the truth of this > > beyond a > >> shadow of a doubt is radial! He is saying that when the Truth is > > seen or > >> Reality is seen, then the whole question of free will is > > undermined. There > >> is in reality no one there to have free will or not! > >> > >> )))))))Shawn > > > > devi: the word illusion is misleading, dream or magic show is really > > more appropriate. > > and to say that there is no one there to have free will or not, > > doesn't sound right to me either, > > there is a SElf there, a God there, and it functions, only it > > functions differnet from what an unenlightened being knows and it > > can't be described... > > > Your great wisdom is only apparently non-existent. > > ))))Shawn i'm sorry, i don't understand, are you making fun of me again? can you elaborate? devi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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