Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 I've been wondering for a while about the following: Is having a job that requires continuous and intensive use of the rational mind, an obstacle on the path toward insight/enlightenment/realization/whatever-you-wanna-call-it? Personally, I'm a little worried that it is. I'm a programmer by profession, and basically programming comes down to (ab)using the rational mind to translate lots and lots of input (design documents) into lots and lots of output (code). On the surface, this feels like an enjoyable and intellectual process, but closer scrutiny has given me the impression that it is in fact extremely mechanical. Also, it appears to me that it is very hard to combine this kind of work with the build-up of awareness/insight. When I flash awareness into my being, the endless runaway-train of thoughts that is necessary for me to do my work (coz in fact it *is* my work to keep that runaway train going and going...)--when I flash awareness into my being, the runaway train slowly but surely comes to a halt. It sort of fizzles out, like a fire in the rain. This fizzling out always gives me the feeling of being freed. In other words, I feel that it's a positive step toward awareness/insight. However, it means my work grinds to a halt. I seem unable to combine the two. I can turn off awareness and do my job, or I can abide in awareness--and my work stops. I believe the problem is with the nature of the work. By comparison, tasks such as interaction with others (meetings etc.), and also household chores, *can* be performed while awareness is present. I was wondering if I am making a mistake in thinking that a job such as mine, which relies so heavily on the mind-machine, is in fact a real obstacle. I would appreciate your (anybody's) thoughts on this. Thank you, Caspar De Groot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Dear Caspar, It occurs to me that what is really at work here - and also at odds with your idea of 'less than ideal' work - is a strong feeling of doership, which is a product and tendency of a conditioned mind. A couple of things: 1) You said: " When I flash awareness into my being . . . " Just how do " you do " that? " I flash awareness. " This is a problematic statement in that both the " I " and the sense of any personal agency, implied by the notion " I flash, " are contained WITHIN awareness. But awareness is not encompassed within the " I " -sense, nor directed by its self-presumptions. " I flash awareness into my being " sounds like a ray of sunlight claiming to be capable of lighting up the sun. 2) The sense of personal accountability, the " I " -sense charged with having to " hold it all together, " can seem to colonize and oppress awareness. Personal-awareness gets preoccupied by seemingly " unspiritual " pursuits, thus tension arises in one who perceives himself to be a " spiritual seeker. " Some ideal " spiritual state of mind " appears to be painfully far off, held at bay by the colonizing occupation, in this case, programming. But what is the real difference, if any, between less mentally engaging occupations like washing dishes or sweeping the floor, and more mentally-engaging tasks like programming? Isn't it really what's at stake? And what IS at stake if not the ego's safety and comfort zone? What's at stake when washing dishes? Not much. What's at stake when programming? Reputation, integrity and livelihood. That means several levels of security are at stake. The ego is keenly attached to its security. But pure awareness is independant of the limited ego's " I " -sense. And it is also inclusive of the " I " -sense. Is it possible to watch the programming happen without attachment? Is it possible to watch the " I " -sense and the sense of doership also? Pure awareness is at the center of the unseen. Your job is not an obstacle. Take a leaf that floats on the surface of a stream. Sometimes the leaf flows smoothly with the current, and at other times it gets caught up in the whorl of whitewater. Accountability? Imagine awareness to be a stream bed. Imagine all of life's circumstances to be the water flowing through it, sometimes clear and at other times cloudy. Where is the attention - caught up in the variable conditions of the water flowing by (events in time and space), or is the attention grounded in an unshakeable, unchanging foundation, the stream bed? Even the tension of the job is part of the Happening, the flow of the stream. Try not to judge how it happens. Navigate wherever you can, but try not to cultivate the ego-stress. Your own, Adan --- caspardegroot <caspardegroot wrote: > I've been wondering for a while about the following: > > Is having a job that requires continuous and > intensive use of the > rational mind, an obstacle on the path toward > insight/enlightenment/realization/whatever-you-wanna-call-it? > > Personally, I'm a little worried that it is. I'm a > programmer by > profession, and basically programming comes down to > (ab)using the > rational mind to translate lots and lots of input > (design documents) > into lots and lots of output (code). On the surface, > this feels like > an enjoyable and intellectual process, but closer > scrutiny has given > me the impression that it is in fact extremely > mechanical. Also, it > appears to me that it is very hard to combine this > kind of work with > the build-up of awareness/insight. When I flash > awareness into my > being, the endless runaway-train of thoughts that is > necessary for me > to do my work (coz in fact it *is* my work to keep > that runaway train > going and going...)--when I flash awareness into my > being, the > runaway train slowly but surely comes to a halt. It > sort of fizzles > out, like a fire in the rain. This fizzling out > always gives me the > feeling of being freed. In other words, I feel that > it's a positive > step toward awareness/insight. However, it means my > work grinds to a > halt. > > I seem unable to combine the two. I can turn off > awareness and do my > job, or I can abide in awareness--and my work stops. > I believe the > problem is with the nature of the work. By > comparison, tasks such as > interaction with others (meetings etc.), and also > household chores, > *can* be performed while awareness is present. > > I was wondering if I am making a mistake in thinking > that a job such > as mine, which relies so heavily on the > mind-machine, is in fact a > real obstacle. > > I would appreciate your (anybody's) thoughts on > this. > > Thank you, > > Caspar De Groot > > ===== The most meaningful gift we will ever receive is the one we open from the inside out. A wise man has said: " The very best kept secrets are those we keep from ourselves. " Look within your heart. Find yourself out. Wake up from your dream and come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Very interesting question Caspar. It seems realization entails letting go of the old and existing in a state of perpetual newness. This constant newness, this perpetual surrendering, it seems cannot co-exist with constant intentful, mental holding, with you as consciousness willfully and mentally hanging on. This is not because one cannot surrender with a busy mind, indeed one can. A busy mind that is constantly grasping and holding in no way a hinderance. This type of mind can simply be observed. But the work you talk of is not freely being performed by the mind alone. It is you a consciousness going into the mental vehicle and using it in a specific way to achieve your own desired outcome. Nisargadatta talks of his thinking as being largely unconscious, it just happens of its own accord, similar to digestion. Similar to mathematics, it seems your work entials mentally holding onto strains of logic, while at the same time, forcefully using the mind to build further strains of logic upon this. I'm not sure this type of activity can occur in a state of gentle letting-go-ness. By the very nature of your work, you are attached to the outcome, and to surrender that attachment would be to surrender the role of employment itself. How can one surrender the mind to Truth, while at the same time control its function and freedom? Toby Nisargadatta , " caspardegroot " <caspardegroot> wrote: > I've been wondering for a while about the following: > > Is having a job that requires continuous and intensive use of the > rational mind, an obstacle on the path toward > insight/enlightenment/realization/whatever-you-wanna-call-it? > > Personally, I'm a little worried that it is. I'm a programmer by > profession, and basically programming comes down to (ab)using the > rational mind to translate lots and lots of input (design documents) > into lots and lots of output (code). On the surface, this feels like > an enjoyable and intellectual process, but closer scrutiny has given > me the impression that it is in fact extremely mechanical. Also, it > appears to me that it is very hard to combine this kind of work with > the build-up of awareness/insight. When I flash awareness into my > being, the endless runaway-train of thoughts that is necessary for me > to do my work (coz in fact it *is* my work to keep that runaway train > going and going...)--when I flash awareness into my being, the > runaway train slowly but surely comes to a halt. It sort of fizzles > out, like a fire in the rain. This fizzling out always gives me the > feeling of being freed. In other words, I feel that it's a positive > step toward awareness/insight. However, it means my work grinds to a > halt. > > I seem unable to combine the two. I can turn off awareness and do my > job, or I can abide in awareness--and my work stops. I believe the > problem is with the nature of the work. By comparison, tasks such as > interaction with others (meetings etc.), and also household chores, > *can* be performed while awareness is present. > > I was wondering if I am making a mistake in thinking that a job such > as mine, which relies so heavily on the mind-machine, is in fact a > real obstacle. > > I would appreciate your (anybody's) thoughts on this. > > Thank you, > > Caspar De Groot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Nisargadatta , " caspardegroot " <caspardegroot> wrote: > I've been wondering for a while about the following: > > Is having a job that requires continuous and intensive use of the > rational mind, an obstacle on the path toward > insight/enlightenment/realization/whatever-you-wanna-call-it? > > Personally, I'm a little worried that it is. I'm a programmer by > profession, and basically programming comes down to (ab)using the > rational mind to translate lots and lots of input (design documents) > into lots and lots of output (code). On the surface, this feels like > an enjoyable and intellectual process, but closer scrutiny has given > me the impression that it is in fact extremely mechanical. Also, it > appears to me that it is very hard to combine this kind of work with > the build-up of awareness/insight. When I flash awareness into my > being, the endless runaway-train of thoughts that is necessary for me > to do my work (coz in fact it *is* my work to keep that runaway train > going and going...)--when I flash awareness into my being, the > runaway train slowly but surely comes to a halt. It sort of fizzles > out, like a fire in the rain. This fizzling out always gives me the > feeling of being freed. In other words, I feel that it's a positive > step toward awareness/insight. However, it means my work grinds to a > halt. > > I seem unable to combine the two. I can turn off awareness and do my > job, or I can abide in awareness--and my work stops. I believe the > problem is with the nature of the work. > By comparison, tasks such as > interaction with others (meetings etc.), and also household chores, > *can* be performed while awareness is present. not for me; people always pul me out of 'awareness' karta > > I was wondering if I am making a mistake in thinking that a job such > as mine, which relies so heavily on the mind-machine, is in fact a > real obstacle. > > I would appreciate your (anybody's) thoughts on this. > > Thank you, > > Caspar De Groot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Maybe the most practical thing here is to situate oneself not in the work, the outcomes, the stress, etc, involved in programming, but in observation of the total functioning. Being " in awareness " does not necessarily mean we evolve out of situations like the one Caspar finds himself in, but that the emphasis should perhaps shift to impartial witnessing of both the work and the sense of responsibility, rather than feeling that awareness is somehow imposed upon by the work and the responsibility. Someone used the word " surrender, " and I think that is the key. However, surrender is not letting go of responsibility, but letting go of attachment to outcomes. Surrender is, most importantly, trust in the efficacy of the total functioning, of which the mind, the " I " -sense and the job are integral parts. --- caspardegroot <caspardegroot wrote: > I've been wondering for a while about the following: > > Is having a job that requires continuous and > intensive use of the > rational mind, an obstacle on the path toward > insight/enlightenment/realization/whatever-you-wanna-call-it? > > Personally, I'm a little worried that it is. I'm a > programmer by > profession, and basically programming comes down to > (ab)using the > rational mind to translate lots and lots of input > (design documents) > into lots and lots of output (code). On the surface, > this feels like > an enjoyable and intellectual process, but closer > scrutiny has given > me the impression that it is in fact extremely > mechanical. Also, it > appears to me that it is very hard to combine this > kind of work with > the build-up of awareness/insight. When I flash > awareness into my > being, the endless runaway-train of thoughts that is > necessary for me > to do my work (coz in fact it *is* my work to keep > that runaway train > going and going...)--when I flash awareness into my > being, the > runaway train slowly but surely comes to a halt. It > sort of fizzles > out, like a fire in the rain. This fizzling out > always gives me the > feeling of being freed. In other words, I feel that > it's a positive > step toward awareness/insight. However, it means my > work grinds to a > halt. > > I seem unable to combine the two. I can turn off > awareness and do my > job, or I can abide in awareness--and my work stops. > I believe the > problem is with the nature of the work. By > comparison, tasks such as > interaction with others (meetings etc.), and also > household chores, > *can* be performed while awareness is present. > > I was wondering if I am making a mistake in thinking > that a job such > as mine, which relies so heavily on the > mind-machine, is in fact a > real obstacle. > > I would appreciate your (anybody's) thoughts on > this. > > Thank you, > > Caspar De Groot > > ===== The most meaningful gift we will ever receive is the one we open from the inside out. A wise man has said: " The very best kept secrets are those we keep from ourselves. " Look within your heart. Find yourself out. Wake up from your dream and come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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