Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 on 5/31/03 9:19 AM, Adan Williams at adanwill wrote: > Desire, strong or otherwise, is a movement in > consciosness, a wave or an upheaval of sorts, > however gross or subtle, that, when satisfied, > comes to rest in its own extinction. Our sexual > desire leads to courtship; successful courtship > leads to sex; sex consummated leads to orgasmic > bliss; and bliss is desire extinguished. Or, if > you're into chocolate cake, it's even simpler. > > Desire satisfied is desire extinguished. > > Adan > I always heard that desire satisfied breeds more desire, more money, better sex, etc. Also, I believe that " bliss " in traditional Eastern thought is *beyond* a " you " having it....so that would seemt to occlude the orgasm and other momentary experiences. Bliss is our very Self. All desire includes an identification to a " one " who would desire. To indulge in desires or " satisfy them is a vicious circle perpetuating the myth of " me " . )))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Momentary bliss is a reflection, a touch of true bliss. Its enjoyment is the underlying motive of desire. --- shawn <shawn wrote: > on 5/31/03 9:19 AM, Adan Williams at > adanwill wrote: > > > Desire, strong or otherwise, is a movement in > > consciosness, a wave or an upheaval of sorts, > > however gross or subtle, that, when satisfied, > > comes to rest in its own extinction. Our sexual > > desire leads to courtship; successful courtship > > leads to sex; sex consummated leads to orgasmic > > bliss; and bliss is desire extinguished. Or, if > > you're into chocolate cake, it's even simpler. > > > > Desire satisfied is desire extinguished. > > > > Adan > > > > > I always heard that desire satisfied breeds more > desire, more money, better > sex, etc. > > Also, I believe that " bliss " in traditional Eastern > thought is *beyond* a > " you " having it....so that would seemt to occlude > the orgasm and other > momentary experiences. Bliss is our very Self. All > desire includes an > identification to a " one " who would desire. To > indulge in desires or > " satisfy them is a vicious circle perpetuating the > myth of " me " . > > )))))Shawn > > ===== The most meaningful gift we will ever receive is the one we open from the inside out. A wise man has said: " The very best kept secrets are those we keep from ourselves. " Look within your heart. Find yourself out. Wake up from your dream and come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 5/31/03 9:19 AM, Adan Williams at adanwill wrote: > > > Desire, strong or otherwise, is a movement in > > consciosness, a wave or an upheaval of sorts, > > however gross or subtle, that, when satisfied, > > comes to rest in its own extinction. Our sexual > > desire leads to courtship; successful courtship > > leads to sex; sex consummated leads to orgasmic > > bliss; and bliss is desire extinguished. Or, if > > you're into chocolate cake, it's even simpler. > > > > Desire satisfied is desire extinguished. > > > > Adan ------- > I always heard that desire satisfied breeds more desire, more money, better > sex, etc. > > Also, I believe that " bliss " in traditional Eastern thought is *beyond* a > " you " having it....so that would seemt to occlude the orgasm and other > momentary experiences. Bliss is our very Self. All desire includes an > identification to a " one " who would desire. To indulge in desires or > " satisfy them is a vicious circle perpetuating the myth of " me " . > > )))))Shawn --------------------------- There is just the natural urge of the organism to continue. So animals kill and eat other forms of life. Nest. And reproduce themselves. Everything else is edifice of civilization's inherited belief systems superimposed on this simple organic urge to continue. This superimposition is constanting wanting what the universe does not have to give. So the more it gets the more it wants. Until finally it wants to go beyond, the big bliss, which is also part of that edifice of civilization's inherited belief systems... ...little knowing that beyond is not beyond, but rather the collapse of it's whole edifice of civilizations' inherited belief system which is the evaporation of " it. " .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 on 5/31/03 2:30 PM, elwells_2003 at elizabethwells8 wrote: > Nisargadatta , shawn <shawn@w...> > wrote: >> on 5/31/03 11:58 AM, elwells_2003 at elizabethwells8@e... > wrote: >> >>> --------------------------- >>> There is just the natural urge of the organism to continue. >>> >>> So animals kill and eat other forms of life. >>> Nest. >>> And reproduce themselves. >> >> Animal urges are different from a humans's desires? There is > no " instinct " >> to have a better car than your neighbors. Before we identify, is > there a >> desire to continue? >> >> >> ))))Shawn > > ------------------ > The " urge to continue " is common to all. > > The desire " to be " . > > But the human animal isn't satisfied with simply " being " , > he is handed down from his culture all these word pictures, > and thing he has to be, not be, do/not do, have/not have........ The urge to continue arises only after a percieved or conceived threat, no? In Being, before identification, there is no threat, no fear, nor desire. Cultural pressure is after the original identification with the body-mind. It is the feeling-belief that conscious-awareness is limited to the body-mind that is the sorce of all the problems. Our culture are extensions of this delusion. )))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 Nisargadatta , " elwells_2003 " <elizabethwells8@e...> wrote: > > > The urge to continue arises only after a percieved or conceived > threat, no? > > > )))Shawn > > ---------------------- > > The " urge to continue " is always present. > It is inherent in the interplay of opposites in the biological > organism. > Even when a particular organism is no longer viable > and is absorbed into another organism. > > El ------------------------- The surperimposed cultural belief systems aka the mind of man aka the me has it's own urge to continue, and it's own triggers for flight or fight... which most often conflict and/or interfere with the harmonious functioning of the biological organism. i.e. mother (culture) says zip it up. mother nature says, go to it boy. El Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 amritanubhavana --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > A glimmer of Nectar... > > -Bill > > > > shawn [shawn] > Saturday, May 31, 2003 3:19 PM > Nisargadatta > Re: desire > > > on 5/31/03 10:48 AM, Adan Williams at > adanwill wrote: > > > Momentary bliss is a reflection, a touch of true > > bliss. Its enjoyment is the underlying motive of > > desire. > > > > Yes, I agree. A taste of what we already have inside > us? > > )))Shawn > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to > Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 Aren't y'all forgetting something? " Continuation " is in time. Therefore continuation only exists per a perceptual frame. Are you talking science or Truth here? -Bill elwells_2003 [elizabethwells8] Saturday, May 31, 2003 6:48 PM Nisargadatta Re: desire > The urge to continue arises only after a percieved or conceived threat, no? > )))Shawn ---------------------- The " urge to continue " is always present. It is inherent in the interplay of opposites in the biological organism. Even when a particular organism is no longer viable and is absorbed into another organism. .. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 Who but " you " said anything about " you " ? .. counter . --- elwells_2003 <elizabethwells8 wrote: > > " Even when a particular organism is no longer viable > > and is absorbed into another organism. " > > > > This takes manifest destiny to a whole new level! > > > > Adan > > ---------------------- > > haaaaaaaaaaa > > Manifest destiny for who? > > Your own body doesn't even know " you " . > What you call your own body isn't even " yours " . > It belongs to All. > It is part and parcel of total functioning > manifestation. > > . > > ===== The most meaningful gift we will ever receive is the one we open from the inside out. A wise man has said: " The very best kept secrets are those we keep from ourselves. " Look within your heart. Find yourself out. Wake up from your dream and come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 Bill, obviously if as stated " the urge to continue is always present " it is timeless. So nothing was said. And that is the Truth. El Nisargadatta , Adan Williams <adanwill> wrote: > Wei Wu Wei is in the house.... > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > Aren't y'all forgetting something? > > > > " Continuation " is in time. > > Therefore continuation only exists per a perceptual > > frame. > > > > Are you talking science or Truth here? > > > > -Bill > > > > > > > > elwells_2003 > > [elizabethwells8@e...] > > Saturday, May 31, 2003 6:48 PM > > Nisargadatta > > Re: desire > > > > > > > > > The urge to continue arises only after a percieved > > or conceived > > threat, no? > > > > > )))Shawn > > > > ---------------------- > > > > The " urge to continue " is always present. > > It is inherent in the interplay of opposites in the > > biological > > organism. > > Even when a particular organism is no longer viable > > and is absorbed into another organism. > > > > . > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > > change your > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to > > Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > > for the Nisargadatta > > group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 " Always " present is, after all, " never " ending. --- Adan Williams <adanwill wrote: > Except that " to continue " implies a continuum, and a > continuum - even if imagined never to end - implies > its extension in time, requiring " space " in which to > do so. > > Adan > > --- elwells_2003 <elizabethwells8 > wrote: > > Bill, obviously if as stated " the urge to continue > > is always > > present " it is timeless. So nothing was said. > > And that is the Truth. El > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Adan Williams > > > <adanwill> wrote: > > > Wei Wu Wei is in the house.... > > > > > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > > > Aren't y'all forgetting something? > > > > > > > > " Continuation " is in time. > > > > Therefore continuation only exists per a > > perceptual > > > > frame. > > > > > > > > Are you talking science or Truth here? > > > > > > > > -Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > elwells_2003 > > > > [elizabethwells8@e...] > > > > Saturday, May 31, 2003 6:48 PM > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Re: desire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The urge to continue arises only after a > > percieved > > > > or conceived > > > > threat, no? > > > > > > > > > )))Shawn > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > The " urge to continue " is always present. > > > > It is inherent in the interplay of opposites > in > > the > > > > biological > > > > organism. > > > > Even when a particular organism is no longer > > viable > > > > and is absorbed into another organism. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual > emails, > > to > > > > change your > > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and > go > > to > > > > Edit My Groups: > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No > > Email " > > > > for the Nisargadatta > > > > group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 You know about Wei Wu Wei? Wow! Almost nobody does... Here's a great link to his stuff online: http://www.weiwuwei.8k.com I got some of his books over 30 years ago. Not easy reading... Talks a lot about noumenon and phenomenon. -Bill Adan Williams [adanwill] Saturday, May 31, 2003 9:42 PM Nisargadatta RE: Re: desire Wei Wu Wei is in the house.... --- Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > Aren't y'all forgetting something? > > " Continuation " is in time. > Therefore continuation only exists per a perceptual > frame. > > Are you talking science or Truth here? > > -Bill > > > > elwells_2003 > [elizabethwells8] > Saturday, May 31, 2003 6:48 PM > Nisargadatta > Re: desire > > > > > The urge to continue arises only after a percieved > or conceived > threat, no? > > > )))Shawn > > ---------------------- > > The " urge to continue " is always present. > It is inherent in the interplay of opposites in the > biological > organism. > Even when a particular organism is no longer viable > and is absorbed into another organism. > > . > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to > Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 And if *not* as stated: " the urge to continue is always present " ... It was that premise I was calling into question. -Bill elwells_2003 [elizabethwells8] Saturday, May 31, 2003 10:00 PM Nisargadatta Re: desire Bill, obviously if as stated " the urge to continue is always present " it is timeless. So nothing was said. And that is the Truth. El Nisargadatta , Adan Williams <adanwill> wrote: > Wei Wu Wei is in the house.... > > --- Bill Rishel <plexus@x...> wrote: > > Aren't y'all forgetting something? > > > > " Continuation " is in time. > > Therefore continuation only exists per a perceptual > > frame. > > > > Are you talking science or Truth here? > > > > -Bill > > > > > > > > elwells_2003 > > [elizabethwells8@e...] > > Saturday, May 31, 2003 6:48 PM > > Nisargadatta > > Re: desire > > > > > > > > > The urge to continue arises only after a percieved > > or conceived > > threat, no? > > > > > )))Shawn > > > > ---------------------- > > > > The " urge to continue " is always present. > > It is inherent in the interplay of opposites in the > > biological > > organism. > > Even when a particular organism is no longer viable > > and is absorbed into another organism. > > > > . > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > > change your > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to > > Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > > for the Nisargadatta > > group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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