Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hi Bill -- > OK. Your term " story " throws me a bit, because it seems to lead somewhere. Only in a dream. > A dream, to me, just unfolds. Good point. " Seems " to unfold, actually. > And a dream needn't have " characters " as such. > It can just be very 'dreamy', like melting clouds. Sure. But there's a perspective and experience, and that is the character of the subject of the dream. Just that a dream is being experienced involves the character which is that experiencing. > A dream can leave no trace. Exactly. Well-said. Not " can " .. doesn't. A dream leaves no trace. Traces are always within the dream -- traces of dream characters, dream experiences, dream histories and stories. > But a story -- as I think of it -- has a 'path' through it. > You can look back and see the tracks in the sand. Only when you have a position in the dream, from which to view the story. > That is just how I relate to the word 'story'. Okay. And this is how I relate to the word 'story.' > Indeed, it is all dream. Yes, even the statement that it is a dream, is the dream. And even the statement that there is non-dream truth, is the dream. > Dreaming these words as they come through my fingers. Yes. > It is trance. Compared with what? Being awake? Being awake is nothing other than knowing the dream as dream. Which it already is. Trance, being the dream, doesn't interfere with being awake to the dream as dream. > And within the trance a deeper Trance. Nah, there is no deeper, that's an illusion within the dream. > And another deeper still. It only seems like that. > Who is to say what is real.... Reality -- so it never has been spoken. > Perhaps it is just this " ever-deeping " , > this ever unfolding > of yet another deeper Trance. Nah -- just be awake. That's all. Love, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > << > But all the above statements are concepts in consiousness by the > Absolute(I). > All these communication and discussion is a dream play. > >> > > If all communication is " dream play " then is there any meaning to > communication? Is it all just " castles in the air " ? > Or is some communication deeper and more real in some sense? > > For example, is there any significant distinction between the book > " I Am That " and some romantic novel? > > If I understand you aright, there should be none, since they are all > just " dream play " . > > What say you then? Great question, Bill. Any answer is itself in the dream. Communication, always involving dream characters, can only be deeper or more meaningful from a dream perspective, or not deep or meaningless also from a dream perspective. -- Dan > > > kim ja nyun [kjn@h...] > Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:57 PM > Nisargadatta > Re: Re: Karma and consciousness (Pete) > > > You(I) can not be aware of yourself because you(I) are the source. > When you say 'I know myself', you are in the ignorance state (consciousness > state). > Whenf you(I) say 'I don't know myself', you(I) are in the knowledge > state(awareness state). > You(I) are the knowlede(the pure and perfect knowledge) itself. > > But all the above statements are concepts in consiousness by the > Absolute(I). > All these communication and discussion is a dream play. > ha ha ha ............ > > - > Bill Rishel > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 19, 2003 5:28 AM > RE: Re: Karma and consciousness (Pete) > > > OK. Your term " story " throws me a bit, because it seems to lead > somewhere. > A dream, to me, just unfolds. > And a dream needn't have " characters " as such. > It can just be very 'dreamy', like melting clouds. > > A dream can leave no trace. > But a story -- as I think of it -- has a 'path' through it. > You can look back and see the tracks in the sand. > > That is just how I relate to the word 'story'. > > Indeed, it is all dream. > Dreaming these words as they come through my fingers. > > It is trance. > > And within the trance a deeper Trance. > > And another deeper still. > > Who is to say what is real.... > > Perhaps it is just this " ever-deeping " , > this ever unfolding > of yet another deeper Trance. > > -Bill > > kim ja nyun [kjn@h...] > Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:14 AM > Nisargadatta > Re: Re: Karma and consciousness (Pete) > > > Exactly say, > the story is contents of a dream. > - > Bill Rishel > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:38 PM > RE: Re: Karma and consciousness (Pete) > > > First you say story, now you say dream. > Make up your mind! > > You say " It (story) is a dream " . > You still haven't answered my question: > " What story? " > > > -Bill > > kim ja nyun [kjn@h...] > Tuesday, June 17, 2003 8:47 PM > Nisargadatta > Re: Re: Karma and consciousness (Pete) > > > It(story) is a dream. > Why do you(I) dream? > I don't know, but I dream a waking dream and a sleeping dream, > without cause and reason. > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hi Bill -- > Nah -- just be awake. > > That's all. > >> > Awake with respect to what? Nah, awake like Rodney Dangerfield, with no respect at all! > How is " awake " not dream? Speaking it, thinking it, feeling it -- makes it dream. The truth of it isn't the speaking of it, nor the appearance of it. > Is there a distinction here? Yes, utterly. > What is change? Movement. > What is no-change? Nonmovement. > And what is no sense of either... Not of the dream, neither moving nor still, neither changing nor remaining the same. Not describable within the dream's parameters, which include language, perception, thought. > When the moments are not on a thread... No thread, no moments -- is-moment: unreadable, unthinkable, nonexperiential. > When each bead is whirling on its own The whirling is the space within which is whirling which is the space. > Words float in, but nothing comes out Words don't touch, nothing touches, nothing enters, nothing has ever left. Is as is -- consisting of no is. > Words die here. There is no death here. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Enjoyed the notion of " dreams' parameters " ... : ) Deep bow for this Dan. My words are not going to touch it. -Bill dan330033 [dan330033] Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:39 PM Nisargadatta Re: Karma and consciousness (Bill) Hi Bill -- > Nah -- just be awake. > > That's all. > >> > Awake with respect to what? Nah, awake like Rodney Dangerfield, with no respect at all! > How is " awake " not dream? Speaking it, thinking it, feeling it -- makes it dream. The truth of it isn't the speaking of it, nor the appearance of it. > Is there a distinction here? Yes, utterly. > What is change? Movement. > What is no-change? Nonmovement. > And what is no sense of either... Not of the dream, neither moving nor still, neither changing nor remaining the same. Not describable within the dream's parameters, which include language, perception, thought. > When the moments are not on a thread... No thread, no moments -- is-moment: unreadable, unthinkable, nonexperiential. > When each bead is whirling on its own The whirling is the space within which is whirling which is the space. > Words float in, but nothing comes out Words don't touch, nothing touches, nothing enters, nothing has ever left. Is as is -- consisting of no is. > Words die here. There is no death here. -- Dan ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > Enjoyed the notion of " dreams' parameters " ... : ) > > Deep bow for this Dan. > > My words are not going to touch it. > > -Bill Nor mine. Bowing back, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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