Guest guest Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > Maybe some juicy quotes from him will " kindle > my interest " . > Dear Bill here is some juicy quote from U.G.: " Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your separate self is 'you' " . Who is that 'you' ? It is you, dear Bill ! When you have been a baby you were just the Self (you). Later you startet to slip into roles of the adult's world and more more forgot your origin. It was you who did that, it was you who identified with all those roles and games, those games played with mind and body. It is you who has to realize that it is you playing the game and it is your responsilbilty to return to your former wholeness and your purity and realize it again. You, you, you is it, what else ? YOU ARE THAT ! YOU ... Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Thank you Werner for this UG quote: " Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your separate self is 'you' " . I saw this one recently. Any " separate you " is obviously a " false self " , a " pseudo-entity " . Put in these terms, the statement simply says: " The constant utilization of thought to give continuity to the false-self is the false-self. " In short, I find this statement of his to be awkward and unclear, at best, and essentially not really saying anything. Presumably we understand that the utilization of thought to give continuity to a separate self is the mind-ego. I looked UG up on the web and found this: The search ends with the realization that there is no such thing as enlightenment. By searching, you want to be free from the self, but whatever you are doing to free yourself from the self is the self. How can I make you understand this simple thing? There is no 'how'. If I tell you that, it will only add more momentum to that.... --U.G. I like this quote. Another: UG: Put it simply. I can't follow a very complex structure -- I have that difficulty, you see. Probably I'm a low-grade moron or something, I don't know -- I can't follow conceptual thinking. You can put it in very simple words. What exactly is the question? Because the answer is there; I don't have to give the answer. What I usually do is restructure the question, rephrase it in such a way that the question appears senseless to you. That last line: " What I usually do is restructure the question, rephrase it in such a way that the question appears senseless to you. " Yeah, now dat is coool. Still no spark, that I see, but I feel more inclined go look into UG a bit now. Thanks, Bill wwoehr [wwoehr] Wednesday, June 25, 2003 8:11 AM Nisargadatta Re: UG (Karta) forwarded (UG - no spark?) Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > Maybe some juicy quotes from him will " kindle > my interest " . > Dear Bill here is some juicy quote from U.G.: " Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your separate self is 'you' " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Dear Bill, U.G is fun, you never know if he is a fraud or a clown or an enlightened biting onion. Here is the main link: http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org Have fun ! Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 Hi Bill, My comments in no way related to UG himself, or an opinion of his " authenticity " . From a relative perspective, I tend to agree that he has no warmth in his words. But to feel warmth where there is none, is to see with absolute honesty. It appeared that commenting on having no spark and leaving one cold, may have been an intricate, extremely subtle form of unnoticed judgement. I was simply aiming back at dead center, at zero judgement. Truth is what is, as is. UG is Truth just as much as Hitler was, and Nisargadatta was, and you are, and I am. He can only be what is real. What else is there? Similar to Saddam Hussein and John de Ruiter. What separates them other than judgement, a conceptual definition of something illusory. His relative, functional " usefullness " as a teacher is another thing altogether. It's easy to get into word battles, jumping around from the relative to the absolute and back again. This was not my intention. I prefer to talk of the absolute, but it often leaves nothing to say. And can be confusing when thrown into a " relative " discussion. Toby > > Bill Rishel [sMTP:plexus] > Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:48 AM > Nisargadatta > RE: Re: UG (Karta) forwarded (UG - no spark?) > > How is saying, " He leaves me cold " defining him? > How can anyone be defined, for that matter? > > I haven't read a lot of him. And while what I > did read of him struck as interesting in a way, > only mildly. I have only vaguest memory of what > he was saying; nothing really left an impression > on me. > > Yeah, maybe he is very honest. Maybe he is very > authentic. But really what does he say to me? > Can you give me UG in a nutshell? I don't notice > many " classic UG quotes " floating around. > Why is that? > > I liked the honesty and directness of Shawn's > statement about UG ( " UG leaves me cold " ). I > resonated with it. And yes, it seems to me he > has no spark. What kind of Truth is it that lacks > spark? > > Maybe some juicy quotes from him will " kindle > my interest " . > > -Bill > > > > > > Toby [toby.wilson] > Wednesday, June 25, 2003 4:37 AM > Nisargadatta > Re: UG (Karta) forwarded > > > Why define UG, as if he is something other than Truth? Cold or not > cold, spark or no spark, blow torch or not, he simply is what is > real. > > > Nisargadatta , " el_02003 " > <elizabethwells8@e...> wrote: > > Ug leaves me cold. > > Shawn > > > > Yeah, no spark to him. > > Bill > > > > > > I guess you could call a blow torch not a spark. > > The best thing about UG is he hasn't been > > through a thousand and one translators and > > editors like SNM. > > El > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > </mygroups?edit=1> > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 on 6/25/03 10:03 PM, Wilson, Toby at toby.wilson wrote: > Hi Bill, > > My comments in no way related to UG himself, or an opinion of his > " authenticity " . From a relative perspective, I tend to agree that he has no > warmth in his words. But to feel warmth where there is none, is to see with > absolute honesty. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi Toby! You lost me there: to feel warmth where ther is none? You must be feeling your own warmth! ++++++++++++++++ > It appeared that commenting on having no spark and leaving one cold, may have > been an intricate, extremely subtle form of unnoticed judgement. I was simply > aiming back at dead center, at zero judgement. ***************************** Dear Toby, I don't find being judgemental a thing to be shunned, nor was it unnoticed. " Dead center " in this case may mean " dead in the center. " It is not our preferences that give us trouble, but our identification and clinging to them. My honest comment about the way I feel from the words UG speaks is also the " truth. " I have a feeling and state it, that doesn't mean it will stay or that I have " passed judgement. " I was making a statement about " me. " And please don't get the feeling that I'm going off on you. I'm just fine and love you like a brother-just feel a need for clarification. I simply have found what I have heard him say (read) to be ineffectual and uninspiring and...well negative. It is like the difference between saying " what you are looking for does not exist. " and " you are the one you seek. " They may both be honest and true statements, but we all resonate with different frequencies. I , for instance, don't resonate with Ruiter's " honesty " stuff, cause for me it's too much...for me it seems a bit condemning in the Judeo-Christian way of accusing you of mortal sin when you lie. I don't mean to dissuade anyone from their prefferences...why should I? I am simply making an observation. I honestly find UG to be kind of life-denying (emotionally-dead) and steer clear from people like this as is natural for me to so. On the other hand I find Sri Niz vibrant, alive, full of wisdom and affection. And so I am on this list......;-) from a previous post: on 6/12/03 4:44 AM, Pedsie2 at Pedsie2 wrote: <snip> > The moment you see a friend coming toward you, it seems recognition happens > immediately and that it brings a warm glow of friendship. But let's examine > the > process bit by bit. Your eyes not only sent your friend > image to your brain upside down, but they sent it to different centers to > process its various components. Shape recognition goes one way, colors > another, > movement detection is done somewhere else. After the visual effects are done, > the picture is just a picture and not yet your friend. Then, the photo lab > sends the image to the amygdala ( an almond-shaped gland located at the > anterior > base of the temporal lobe.) In the amygdala the image is invested with > emotional value and then, finally, it's sent to the frontal lobe to be > recognized as > Joyce. > > The amygdala no only invests Joyce's image with emotional value, but it does > the same for any other sensory input. So when this small gland gets injured by > accident or disease our emotional life stops. People suffering from this > condition often describe it as feeling or being dead. The presence of mothers > and > wives no longer kindles feelings of love. Their homes, their possessions > everything they formerly valued leaves them now cold. It reminds one of the > U. G. > Krishnamurti syndrome. This total detachment is, of course pathological, and > not to be confused with the detachment brought about by liberation from a self > image. > > Is our self-image there all the time or is it simple a memory that pops up > like a road sign every few miles to remind us where we are going? When you, > for > example, are really enjoying a movie, where is your self-image? Maybe once in > a while the thought flashes, " I really like this. " But it seems to you, once > the movie is over, you were there all the time witnessing every scene. The > brain is very good at filling in gaps. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ honestly, ))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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