Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Dear friends: I’ve been reading the posts on this list for some time. I’ve read “I Am That” a few years ago and founded it to be one of the most impressive spiritual works I’ve ever seen. Also, every time I open my internet browser it goes directly to http://www.mpeters.de/nisargadatta/index.cfm where I can find everytime a new quote from “I Am That”. Also reading this quotes, I was trying to match some ideas Sri Nisargadatta brings to us and found difficult to me regarding our body mind death. To me the quotes bellow were difficult to conciliate: 1) It [death] is very much like sleep. For a time, the person is out of focus and then it returns. The person, being a creature of circumstances, necessarily changes along with them, like the flame that changes with the fuel. Only the process goes on and on, creating time and space. 2) Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes, called the "I", imagines itself existing everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity. To be, I need no past or future. All experience is born of imagination; I do not imagine, so no birth or death happens to me. Only those who think themselves born can think themselves re-born. All exists in awareness, and awareness neither dies nor is re-born. It is the changeless reality itself. 3) When the body dies, the kind of life you live now, succession of physical and mental events, comes to an end. It can end even now, without waiting for the death of the body. It is enough to shift attention to the Self and keep it there. All happens as if there is a mysterious power that creates and moves everything. Realize that you are not the mover, only the observer, and you will be at peace. Of course not [:that power is not separate from you]. But you must begin by being the dispassionate observer. Then only will you realize your full being as the universal lover and actor. As long as you are enmeshed in the tribulations of a particular personality, you can see nothing beyond it. 4) Exactly as a shadow appears when light is intercepted by the body, so does the person arise when pure self- awareness is obstructed by the "I-am-the-body" idea. And as the shadow changes shape and position according to the lay of the land, so does the person appear to rejoice and suffer, rest and toil, find and lose according to the pattern of destiny. When the body is no more, the person disappears completely without return, only the witness remains and the Great Unknown. As you can see, apparently, there is a contradiction when this “thing” called death occours to the body/mind. Or there is a “person” who goes out-of-focus for a period of time and then “returns”, or there is only awareness. If there’s nothing more than awareness after the body/mind death, there can be no reason for us not to do whatever we want in this here-and-now. The cause-and-effect brakes would be no more usefull since there will be no more a brain/mind to “see” this relation. You can also see this topic in the following quote: In the end you know that there is no sin, no guilt, no retribution, only life in its endless transformations. With the dissolution of the personal "I", personal suffering disappears. What remains is the great sadness of compassion, the horror of the unnecessary pain. Other consequence would be that we will never meet again our dear loved ones whose body/mind died before us. Could the same intention/force/desire that hold our (imaginary) “atoms” together in this “body/mind” holds another kind of “atoms” together in some kind of more-spiritual/mental life??? Is there anybody who has any idea about this? Sorry if I didn’t explain myself clearer. mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Dear mario, My wife sarah is not interested in this kind of stuff. If she were to ask what I am doing when meditating, and I told her that I was in search of myself....she might say, " don't be silly, you are what you appear to be. " But we suspect differently, mmm? Yesterday she said she was consummed with the curiousity of how a plant sees. We had seen something on TV about how some flowers have actually evolved to look like the insect that pollenates it. The bee thinks it is humping another bee, but it is really helping the flower reproduce. She asked how a flower could see the bug in order to trick it intentionally. Bubbles of delight burst inside me as I was confronted with her amazement. I found it extremely funny how she could *pick* the " seeing " part as amazing! What about the intention to trick the bug?!! I asked her if it would satisfy her to know the " mechanics " of how the plant does this. Because we may know this in the future(or we may think we know this.) Ultimately all this desire to know " how " and " why " is an attempt to feel more secure in a world that is as mysterious as we ourselves are. But this curiosity is the movement we as spiritual seekers are engaged in. Ultimately you will see that all the knowledge in the world will not satisfy you and is itself a " trick " to get you to make love to life. Finally we come to rest and there is no movement out from ourself. You fall in love with your " notknowing. " You make love to yourself, the male and female become one IN you. Everything is revealled and yet nothing at all has changed fundamentally. The one that wanted to know is gone, and that one was not you in any ultimate finite sense. We are voluntarily tricking ourselves for the time being. ))))))Shawn on 7/7/03 8:19 AM, THERMOTRONICS - DIRETORIA at diretoria wrote: > Dear friends: > > > I've been reading the posts on this list for some time. I've read " I Am That " > a few years ago and founded it to be one of the most impressive spiritual > works I've ever seen. Also, every time I open my internet browser it goes > directly to http://www.mpeters.de/nisargadatta/index.cfm where I can find > everytime a new quote from " I Am That " . > > > > Also reading this quotes, I was trying to match some ideas Sri Nisargadatta > brings to us and found difficult to me regarding our body mind death. > > > > To me the quotes bellow were difficult to conciliate: > > > > > > 1) It [death] is very much like sleep. For a time, the person is out of focus > and then it returns. The person, being a creature of circumstances, > necessarily changes along with them, like the flame that changes with the > fuel. Only the process goes on and on, creating time and space. > > > > 2) Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The > bundle of memories and hopes, called the " I " , imagines itself existing > everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity. To be, I > need no past or future. All experience is born of imagination; I do not > imagine, so no birth or death happens to me. Only those who think themselves > born can think themselves re-born. All exists in awareness, and awareness > neither dies nor is re-born. It is the changeless reality itself. > > > > 3) When the body dies, the kind of life you live now, succession of physical > and mental events, comes to an end. It can end even now, without waiting for > the death of the body. It is enough to shift attention to the Self and keep it > there. All happens as if there is a mysterious power that creates and moves > everything. Realize that you are not the mover, only the observer, and you > will be at peace. Of course not [:that power is not separate from you]. But > you must begin by being the dispassionate observer. Then only will you realize > your full being as the universal lover and actor. As long as you are enmeshed > in the tribulations of a particular personality, you can see nothing beyond > it. > > > > 4) Exactly as a shadow appears when light is intercepted by the body, so does > the person arise when pure self- awareness is obstructed by the > " I-am-the-body " idea. And as the shadow changes shape and position according > to the lay of the land, so does the person appear to rejoice and suffer, rest > and toil, find and lose according to the pattern of destiny. When the body is > no more, the person disappears completely without return, only the witness > remains and the Great Unknown. > > > > As you can see, apparently, there is a contradiction when this " thing " called > death occours to the body/mind. Or there is a " person " who goes out-of-focus > for a period of time and then " returns " , or there is only awareness. > > > > If there's nothing more than awareness after the body/mind death, there can be > no reason for us not to do whatever we want in this here-and-now. The > cause-and-effect brakes would be no more usefull since there will be no more a > brain/mind to " see " this relation. You can also see this topic in the > following quote: > > > > In the end you know that there is no sin, no guilt, no retribution, only life > in its endless transformations. With the dissolution of the personal " I " , > personal suffering disappears. What remains is the great sadness of > compassion, the horror of the unnecessary pain. > > > > > > Other consequence would be that we will never meet again our dear loved ones > whose body/mind died before us. > > > > Could the same intention/force/desire that hold our (imaginary) " atoms " > together in this " body/mind " holds another kind of " atoms " together in some > kind of more-spiritual/mental life??? > > > > Is there anybody who has any idea about this? > > > > Sorry if I didn't explain myself clearer. > > > > mario > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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