Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 In reading the sayings of Nisargadatta 'I' see that there is nothing to be wanting or to be needed, as that which 'I am', is already replete. To want something for a supposed 'self' is looking in the wrong direction, as I am already that which Is. Being what IS, there is nothing to desire or not to desire, there is only 'Being', Awareness itself, & there is no 'self' to want, no 'things' to desire; all things including the 'dreamers' are contents in the dream generated by the dreamers themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Beautiful Philipe! The response I was waiting for. > > philipelliott10 [sMTP:psturges] > Monday, July 21, 2003 2:24 PM > Nisargadatta > question > > In reading the sayings of Nisargadatta 'I' see that there is nothing > to be wanting or to be needed, as that which 'I am', is already > replete. To want something for a supposed 'self' is looking in the > wrong direction, as I am already that which Is. Being what IS, there > is nothing to desire or not to desire, there is only 'Being', > Awareness itself, & there is no 'self' to want, no 'things' to desire; > all things including the 'dreamers' are contents in the dream > generated by the dreamers themselves. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 I don't see anything in Nisargadatta that I want for myself. I sense the same vitality there, the same translucent Life that pierces All, that I recongize as myself. -Bill patricia370009 [patricia370009] Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:50 AM Nisargadatta question Generally, when people study teachings and follow someone such as Nisargadatta it because they see something in the teacher they want. I would like to know what if anything anyone sees in Nisargadatta they want for themselves? Thank you...patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Hur, Thank you for your thoughtful response. Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hur@n...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " patricia370009 " > <patricia370009> wrote: > > Generally, when people study teachings and follow someone such as > > Nisargadatta it because they see something in the teacher they > > want. I would like to know what if anything anyone sees in > > Nisargadatta they want for themselves? > > > > hi patricia, > > this idea occurred to me as well. in the past, when i observed some > devotees and their gurus, i tried to make a connection. for example, > goofy type of people, do they choose a goofy guru? or are they > really choosing? when nisargadatta appeared as ramesh's guru, what > did ramesh see in maharaj? wayne liqourman's guru is ramesh but as > far as i know, wayne does not feel that way about nisargadatta. so > the pattern does not always fit. > > another example: it's tempting to say that since francis lucille used > to be a french scientist, his fans are scientific types who're into > dry version of advaita...but this is not always true either. > > do we idealize certain qualities and look for those attributes in a > guru and in our beloved. is that also how we fall in love? those > idealized qualities may not even be our own ideals...but what's been > worked out in the evolutionary program. i don't really know how it > works. it's a mystery to me. Yes, so much is mystery. > > when i read a few chapters from " i am that, " something interesting > happened and maharaj's words kept repeating themselves in my mind and > love was born in my heart for maharaj. is maharaj my guru? i have no > idea. am i following maharaj's teachings? i don't even know if > maharaj has any teachings to follow other than his consciosness (or > rather identity) shifting sayings...that point to consciousness...so > even the word guru does not always fit the pattern. At this moment, I think one cannot go wrong following their heart. It is what I do. > > there may be some truth to your question. perhaps gurus give us > certainty and conviction about ultimate reality...the certainty that > we desire? it's sort of hard to imagine a fumbling woody allen type > of a guru, who's not sure about anything. Interesting. The intent of my question was not about a guru giving us 'certainty.' I found it amusing too, thinking of woody allen as a type of guru, actually, I believe he may be for many people. I'm not quite sure that his appearance as 'fumbling' is the real woody : - ) Thank you, Hur...patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Philipe, Nisargadatta , " philipelliott10 " <psturges@c...> wrote: > In reading the sayings of Nisargadatta 'I' see that there is nothing > to be wanting or to be needed, as that which 'I am', is already > replete. To want something for a supposed 'self' is looking in the > wrong direction, as I am already that which Is. Being what IS, there > is nothing to desire or not to desire, there is only 'Being', > Awareness itself, & there is no 'self' to want, no 'things' to desire; > all things including the 'dreamers' are contents in the dream > generated by the dreamers themselves. This is certainly politically correct, Philipe. I find it abstract. You seem to be saying Nisargadatta says: there is nothing to want and that's that. Perhaps, at least, (you want) to believe what Nisargadatta says is true (?) What I am curious about is what the actual experience is of people who claim to exist in such a state of being. For example if there is nothing to desire what does one do when one desires sex? Or, is it that having reached such an exalted state one does not desire sex? patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Bill, Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > I don't see anything in Nisargadatta > that I want for myself. I have a vague recollection of your making a comment at some point about how you regarded Ramana as ******* and Nisargadatta as ****** Wish I could remember these, because I think they may suggest something quite different, Bill. Do you recall? > > I sense the same vitality there, the same > translucent Life that pierces All, > that I recongize as myself. > > -Bill Very interesting. patricia > > > patricia370009 [patricia370009] > Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:50 AM > Nisargadatta > question > > > Generally, when people study teachings and follow someone such as > Nisargadatta it because they see something in the teacher they > want. I would like to know what if anything anyone sees in > Nisargadatta they want for themselves? > > Thank you...patricia > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Nisargadatta , " patricia370009 " <patricia370009> wrote: > Philipe, > > > Nisargadatta , " philipelliott10 " > <psturges@c...> wrote: > > In reading the sayings of Nisargadatta 'I' see that there is > nothing > > to be wanting or to be needed, as that which 'I am', is already > > replete. To want something for a supposed 'self' is looking in the > > wrong direction, as I am already that which Is. Being what IS, > there > > is nothing to desire or not to desire, there is only 'Being', > > Awareness itself, & there is no 'self' to want, no 'things' to > desire; > > all things including the 'dreamers' are contents in the dream > > generated by the dreamers themselves. > > > > This is certainly politically correct, Philipe. I find it > abstract. You seem to be saying Nisargadatta says: there is nothing > to want and that's that. Perhaps, at least, (you want) to believe > what Nisargadatta says is true (?) What I am curious about is what > the actual experience is of people who claim to exist in such a > state of being. For example if there is nothing to desire what does > one do when one desires sex? Or, is it that having reached such an > exalted state one does not desire sex? > > patricia --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Philipe. ..... You seem to be saying Nisargadatta says: there is nothing to want and that's that..... patricia -------------------------- That's right. Not even to be free from anxiety. What if it is not possible for an idea, that has taken shape as an individual body-mind separate from the all, ever to be free from anxiety? What if what " shawn " is experiencing now has always been there, just beneath the surface of consciousness, and is just now starting to bubble up to the surface? What an opportunity! .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Nisargadatta , " el_wells_2003 " <elizabethwells8@e...> wrote: > > > > > Philipe. ..... > You seem to be saying Nisargadatta says: > there is nothing to want and that's that..... > > patricia > > -------------------------- > > That's right. > Not even to be free from anxiety. > My understanding of your response to my comment is that you are suggesting the only way is total acceptance of what is. I do not disagree with that. > > What if it is not possible for an idea, > > that has taken shape as an > individual body-mind separate from the all, > > ever to be free from anxiety? I would say the idea that it is not possible may be the problem. Further, if I understand this belief system, ideas are supposedly irrelevant. > > > What if what " shawn " is experiencing now > has always been there, > just beneath the surface of consciousness, > and is just now starting to bubble up to the surface? > > What an opportunity! It appears to me you may have some 'idea' about what shawn is experiencing. I don't. I was merely interpreting his response to my question. patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 What if it is not possible for an idea, that has taken shape as an individual body-mind separate from the all, ever to be free from anxiety? El --------------- I would say the idea that it is not possible may be the problem. Further, if I understand this belief system, ideas are supposedly irrelevant. Patricia --------------- Put another way, ----there are no real ideas, starting with the first idea, (knowing)I am, from which all other ideas grow and take shape.---- El --------------- What if what " shawn " is experiencing now has always been there, just beneath the surface of consciousness, and is just now starting to bubble up to the surface? What an opportunity! El ---------------- It appears to me you may have some 'idea' about what shawn is experiencing. Patricia ---------------- Only a memory of my own experience when the rubber first started meeting the road. Which is why I said, " What if " . El ---------------- I don't. I was merely interpreting his response to my question. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 If ideas are irrelevant and the " if " portion of your proposition is grounded in the notion of " idea " , then your entire proposition is irrelevant. Therefore, I suggest addressing the notion of relevance of ideas before " going on " to talk about ideas. -Bill el_wells_2003 [elizabethwells8] Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:28 AM Nisargadatta Re: question What if it is not possible for an idea, that has taken shape as an individual body-mind separate from the all, ever to be free from anxiety? El --------------- I would say the idea that it is not possible may be the problem. Further, if I understand this belief system, ideas are supposedly irrelevant. Patricia --------------- Put another way, ----there are no real ideas, starting with the first idea, (knowing)I am, from which all other ideas grow and take shape.---- El --------------- What if what " shawn " is experiencing now has always been there, just beneath the surface of consciousness, and is just now starting to bubble up to the surface? What an opportunity! El ---------------- It appears to me you may have some 'idea' about what shawn is experiencing. Patricia ---------------- Only a memory of my own experience when the rubber first started meeting the road. Which is why I said, " What if " . El ---------------- I don't. I was merely interpreting his response to my question. Patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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