Guest guest Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee > <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > - > > skoggman > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, July 28, 2003 08:25 PM > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > the question: > > > > >> > > What is Consciousness? > > << > > > > Well, any answer is as good as the next, > but all's i know is that while y'all are giving out > answers, Andrew Cohen will probably start > a new magazine called > " What is Consciousness? " > to go along with " What is Enlightenment? " > and rake in some more ka-ching. > > LOL > > Freyja Yes, even more deep than consciousness is the primal sound: ka-ching! Thanks for reminding us of this ancient wisdom, Freyja. Going now to read one of the verses of the Ka Ching, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 - carolina112900 Nisargadatta Wednesday, July 30, 2003 08:46 PM Re: The thingy known as Consciousness Nisargadatta , "Sandeep" <sandeepc@b...> wrote:> > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, July 29, 2003 08:40 PM> Re: The thingy known as Consciousness> > > <SNIP> > > > > > Earnestly awaiting enlightenment.> > I'll just bet you are <s>> > You already are the enlightenment you are awaiting.> > ------> > Ahaa.> > But then right now I have to raise $40,000.> Oh my, Sandeep, if you need to raise money, you can't possibly be "enlightened"! <g> ;-)Also, if one has cancer or any other health problem, you cannot be enlightened. That is how the story goes-- that someone said upon hearing that Nisargadatta had throat cancer....oh well, then he must have issues, and can't be enlightened......This kind of thinking must be another form of spiritual illusion,that if you have any kind of 'problems'you are not realized.But are they problems, or just more situations to deal with,like everything else that arises, whether they are labeled good or bad?However, we are so much more quick to scramble about trying to do something about itwhen we think we don't have what we think we should have, as opposed to when we feel everything is fine.Lots of correlations out there, even in the scientific world,between things like having perfect physical 'health'no money problems, etc, and realization. ------- Oh realization. Kinda bored with being enlighteningly realized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > - > carolina112900 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 08:46 PM > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, July 29, 2003 08:40 PM > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > Earnestly awaiting enlightenment. > > > > I'll just bet you are <s> > > > > You already are the enlightenment you are awaiting. > > > > ------ > > > > Ahaa. > > > > But then right now I have to raise $40,000. > > > > > Oh my, Sandeep, if you need to raise money, you can't possibly be " enlightened " ! <g> ;-) > > Also, if one has cancer or any other health problem, you cannot be enlightened. That is how the story goes-- that someone said upon hearing that Nisargadatta had throat cancer.... > oh well, then he must have issues, and can't be enlightened...... > > This kind of thinking must be another form of spiritual illusion,that if you have any kind of 'problems'you are not realized. > > But are they problems, or just more situations to deal with,like everything else that arises, whether they are labeled good or bad? > > However, we are so much more quick to scramble about trying to do something about it > when we think we don't have what we think we should have, as opposed to when we feel everything is fine. > > Lots of correlations out there, even in the scientific world,between things like having perfect physical 'health'no money problems, etc, and realization. > > > ------- > > Oh realization. > > Kinda bored with being enlighteningly realized. Is this the part where Ramesh or Ram Tzu or whoever suggests taking the million bucks? ;o)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Salaam walekhuim Dan. Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: <SNIP> > > > > Can you come again on that, Dan? > > > > > > ------------ > > Okay. If your statements don't arise I can't read them. > > Reading them, therefore they have arisen. > > If affirming that their arising is conditioning, then whatever > is being said in the statement is conditioning -- for > the statement is arising. > > In other words, whatever comments you make about conditioning > are themselves conditioned -- whatever is said. > > And anything being perceived, whether your statements or > anything else, is perceived in the context of conditioning. > > So, I can't really comment on the activity of conditioning, > since the comment is conditioned. > > Same with perception, I can't perceive what conditioning > actually is, because perceptions are conditioned -- and > conditional. > > So, nothing is being said, ever -- or perceived, or known. > > As conditioning can't be aware of itself as conditioning, > as what it is, as how perceptions arise. ------- Right. A prattling, arose elsewhere........ An apparent need to express the Universal I AM, is the very apparent creation of finity, in which all expressions inlcuding the very expression, " Universal I AM " , .....comes into existence. The eye can see everything, but not itself. Except as an image in a mirror. Phenomenality is the mirror and the dancing images within the mirror, images of that-which-IS. In seeing the images, I sees I-self. ---------- <SNIP> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , " diana_53231 " <diana@1...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee > <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > - > > carolina112900 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 08:46 PM > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> > wrote: > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, July 29, 2003 08:40 PM > > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Earnestly awaiting enlightenment. > > > > > > I'll just bet you are <s> > > > > > > You already are the enlightenment you are awaiting. > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > Ahaa. > > > > > > But then right now I have to raise $40,000. > > > > > > > > > Oh my, Sandeep, if you need to raise money, you can't possibly > be " enlightened " ! <g> ;-) > > > > Also, if one has cancer or any other health problem, you cannot be > enlightened. That is how the story goes-- that someone said upon > hearing that Nisargadatta had throat cancer.... > > oh well, then he must have issues, and can't be enlightened...... > > > > This kind of thinking must be another form of spiritual > illusion,that if you have any kind of 'problems'you are not realized. > > > > But are they problems, or just more situations to deal with,like > everything else that arises, whether they are labeled good or bad? > > > > However, we are so much more quick to scramble about trying to do > something about it > > when we think we don't have what we think we should have, as > opposed to when we feel everything is fine. > > > > Lots of correlations out there, even in the scientific > world,between things like having perfect physical 'health'no money > problems, etc, and realization. > > > > > > ------- > > > > Oh realization. > > > > Kinda bored with being enlighteningly realized. > > > > Is this the part where Ramesh or Ram Tzu or whoever > suggests taking the million bucks? Diana, do you really need some one else to suggest to you, for you to pick up a million bucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > - > carolina112900 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 08:46 PM > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, July 29, 2003 08:40 PM > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > Earnestly awaiting enlightenment. > > > > I'll just bet you are <s> > > > > You already are the enlightenment you are awaiting. > > > > ------ > > > > Ahaa. > > > > But then right now I have to raise $40,000. > > > > > Oh my, Sandeep, if you need to raise money, you can't possibly be " enlightened " ! <g> ;-) > > Also, if one has cancer or any other health problem, you cannot be enlightened. That is how the story goes-- that someone said upon hearing that Nisargadatta had throat cancer.... > oh well, then he must have issues, and can't be enlightened...... > > This kind of thinking must be another form of spiritual illusion,that if you have any kind of 'problems'you are not realized. > > But are they problems, or just more situations to deal with,like everything else that arises, whether they are labeled good or bad? > > However, we are so much more quick to scramble about trying to do something about it > when we think we don't have what we think we should have, as opposed to when we feel everything is fine. > > Lots of correlations out there, even in the scientific world,between things like having perfect physical 'health'no money problems, etc, and realization. > > > ------- > > Oh realization. > > Kinda bored with being enlighteningly realized.>> Yes. The hoopla is what it is with all the enlighteningly realized talk. It's what is talked about on these lists. " Sci-phi " someone called it. Leaves a lot to the imagination. All in good fun. I never cease to be bored with the surprise of a lightening strike, -- and there is a lot of it around here where i live Freyja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " diana_53231 " <diana@1...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee > > <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > - > > > carolina112900 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 08:46 PM > > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, July 29, 2003 08:40 PM > > > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Earnestly awaiting enlightenment. > > > > > > > > I'll just bet you are <s> > > > > > > > > You already are the enlightenment you are awaiting. > > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > Ahaa. > > > > > > > > But then right now I have to raise $40,000. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh my, Sandeep, if you need to raise money, you can't possibly > > be " enlightened " ! <g> ;-) > > > > > > Also, if one has cancer or any other health problem, you cannot > be > > enlightened. That is how the story goes-- that someone said upon > > hearing that Nisargadatta had throat cancer.... > > > oh well, then he must have issues, and can't be enlightened...... > > > > > > This kind of thinking must be another form of spiritual > > illusion,that if you have any kind of 'problems'you are not > realized. > > > > > > But are they problems, or just more situations to deal with,like > > everything else that arises, whether they are labeled good or bad? > > > > > > However, we are so much more quick to scramble about trying to do > > something about it > > > when we think we don't have what we think we should have, as > > opposed to when we feel everything is fine. > > > > > > Lots of correlations out there, even in the scientific > > world,between things like having perfect physical 'health'no money > > problems, etc, and realization. > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > Oh realization. > > > > > > Kinda bored with being enlighteningly realized. > > > > > > > > Is this the part where Ramesh or Ram Tzu or whoever > > suggests taking the million bucks? > > > Diana, do you really need some one else to suggest to you, for you to > pick up a million bucks? To collect a million bucks: Would you kill someone? Would you frame your own mother? It would depend what " conditions " are attached It would depend on what was happening in that exact moment But, if you are asking, would i accept a condition-less million bucks OR " enlightenment " ..... LOL Freyja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Hi Sandeep -- Nice hearing from you on this -- as always. > Right. > > > A prattling, arose elsewhere........ > > An apparent need to express the Universal I AM, is the very apparent > creation of finity, in which all expressions inlcuding the very > expression, " Universal I AM " , .....comes into existence. > > The eye can see everything, but not itself. > > Except as an image in a mirror. > > Phenomenality is the mirror and the dancing images within the mirror, > images of that-which-IS. > > In seeing the images, I sees I-self. > > ---------- Yes, nicely put. As long as there is distance from the mirror, there are apparent objects, phenomena, and the observer of phenomena (which actually also is phenomenal, arising with phenomena -- but pretending to be something else, a subject to whom phenomena appear). Clarity on this issue makes seeming distance disappear. There can't be distance between perceiver and perceived if the perceiver also is phenomenal, also is perceived. Without distance, there isn't anything appearing in the mirror, and there isn't anyone able to look into the mirror, or touch the surfaces of things appearing. With no distance, even " I looking at I " dissolves. But, what about this fascinating appearance of phenomena " as if " -- along with the apparent observer of phenomena, " as if " apart -- to interact, think, touch, feel, experience sensations? How could it be happening, if nothing is happening? What an awesome play, this movement of images, the apparent interactions and sensations arisings, the births, lives, and deaths. All for no reason, and with no explanation. Wonderful! -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " diana_53231 " <diana@1...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee > > <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > - > > > carolina112900 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 08:46 PM > > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, July 29, 2003 08:40 PM > > > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Earnestly awaiting enlightenment. > > > > > > > > I'll just bet you are <s> > > > > > > > > You already are the enlightenment you are awaiting. > > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > Ahaa. > > > > > > > > But then right now I have to raise $40,000. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh my, Sandeep, if you need to raise money, you can't possibly > > be " enlightened " ! <g> ;-) > > > > > > Also, if one has cancer or any other health problem, you cannot > be > > enlightened. That is how the story goes-- that someone said upon > > hearing that Nisargadatta had throat cancer.... > > > oh well, then he must have issues, and can't be enlightened...... > > > > > > This kind of thinking must be another form of spiritual > > illusion,that if you have any kind of 'problems'you are not > realized. > > > > > > But are they problems, or just more situations to deal with,like > > everything else that arises, whether they are labeled good or bad? > > > > > > However, we are so much more quick to scramble about trying to do > > something about it > > > when we think we don't have what we think we should have, as > > opposed to when we feel everything is fine. > > > > > > Lots of correlations out there, even in the scientific > > world,between things like having perfect physical 'health'no money > > problems, etc, and realization. > > > > > > > > > ------- > > > > > > Oh realization. > > > > > > Kinda bored with being enlighteningly realized. > > > > > > > > Is this the part where Ramesh or Ram Tzu or whoever > > suggests taking the million bucks? > > > Diana, do you really need some one else to suggest to you, for you to > pick up a million bucks? Laughing! Talk about conditioning! Who could have avoided that conditioning? However, I have heard of people who returned money that wasn't theirs, which they stumbled across. People for whom their sense of integrity was more important than the money. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " diana_53231 " <diana@1...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee > > <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > - > > > carolina112900 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, July 30, 2003 08:46 PM > > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeepc@b...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, July 29, 2003 08:40 PM > > > > Re: The thingy known as Consciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > Oh realization. > > > > > > Kinda bored with being enlighteningly realized. > > > > > > > > Is this the part where Ramesh or Ram Tzu or whoever > > suggests taking the million bucks? > > > Diana, do you really need some one else to suggest to you, for you to > pick up a million bucks? Um....Sandeep, do you really need to ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 For those who are interested. Perhaps no new web-sites but I think they are worth being surfed and throw light on the concept of " consciousness " from different fakultative angles. http://www.imprint-academic.demon.co.uk/SPECIAL/05_01.html and also: http://www.imprint-academic.demon.co.uk/SPECIAL/author.html#471 but, there are much more. Maybe we will come to an scientific break-trough here on this list? Just kidding. Have fun while reading! gassho sk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 What is Consciousness? A prattling which appeared elsewhere to that posed question.......... The apparent lack of a terminological answer, as represented by that posed question ...........how does it intefere with the living, right now? Or, in other words, what issue of your living, do you hope, ........will get addressed through an answer, any answer,... to that question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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