The Universe as a Hologram

September 12, 2003

Dan, for you......

In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris a research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in the habit of reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change the face of science.

Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.

Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of light. Since traveling faster than the speed of light is tantamount to breaking the time barrier, this daunting prospect has caused some physicists to try to come up with elaborate ways to explain away Aspect's findings. But it has inspired others to offer even more radical explanations.

University of London physicist David Bohm, for example, believes Aspect's findings imply that objective reality does not exist, that despite its apparent solidity the universe is at heart a phantasm, a gigantic and splendidly detailed hologram.

To understand why Bohm makes this startling assertion, one must first understand a little about holograms. A hologram is a three- dimensional photograph made with the aid of a laser.

To make a hologram, the object to be photographed is first bathed in the light of a laser beam. Then a second laser beam is bounced off the reflected light of the first and the resulting interference pattern (the area where the two laser beams co-mingle) is captured on film.

When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears.

The three-dimensionality of such images is not the only remarkable characteristic of holograms. If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose. Indeed, even if the halves are divided again, each snippet of film will always be found to contain a smaller but intact version of the original image. Unlike normal photographs, every part of a hologram contains all the information possessed by the whole.

The "whole in every part" nature of a hologram provides us with an entirely new way of understanding organization and order. For most of its history, Western science has labored under the bias that the best way to understand a physical phenomenon, whether a frog or an atom, is to dissect it and study its respective parts.

A hologram teaches us that some things in the universe may not lend themselves to this approach. If we try to take apart something constructed holographically, we will not get the pieces of which it is made, we will only get smaller wholes.

This insight suggested to Bohm another way of understanding Aspect's discovery.

Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain in contact with one another regardless of the distance separating them is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal back and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion. He argues that at some deeper level of reality such particles are not individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same fundamental something.

To enable people to better visualize what he means, Bohm offers the following illustration.

Imagine an aquarium containing a fish. Imagine also that you are unable to see the aquarium directly and your knowledge about it and what it contains comes from two television cameras, one directed at the aquarium's front and the other directed at its side.

As you stare at the two television monitors, you might assume that the fish on each of the screens are separate entities. After all, because the cameras are set at different angles, each of the images will be slightly different. But as you continue to watch the two fish, you will eventually become aware that there is a certain relationship between them. When one turns, the other also makes a slightly different but corresponding turn; when one faces the front, the other always faces toward the side. If you remain unaware of the full scope of the situation, you might even conclude that the fish must be instantaneously communicating with one another, but this is clearly not the case.

This, says Bohm, is precisely what is going on between the subatomic particles in Aspect's experiment.

According to Bohm, the apparent faster-than-light connection between subatomic particles is really telling us that there is a deeper level of reality we are not privy to, a more complex dimension beyond our own that is analogous to the aquarium. And, he adds, we view objects such as subatomic particles as separate from one another because we are seeing only a portion of their reality.

Such particles are not separate "parts", but facets of a deeper and more underlying unity that is ultimately as holographic and indivisible as the previously mentioned rose.

And since everything in physical reality is comprised of these "eidolons", the universe is itself a projection, a hologram. In addition to its phantomlike nature, such a universe would possess other rather startling features. If the apparent separateness of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected.

The electrons in a carbon atom in the human brain are connected to the subatomic particles that comprise every salmon that swims, every heart that beats, and every star that shimmers in the sky.

Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature may seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide, the various phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web. In a holographic universe, even time and space could no longer be viewed as fundamentals. Because concepts such as location break down in a universe in which nothing is truly separate from anything else, time and three-dimensional space, like the images of the fish on the TV monitors, would also have to be viewed as projections of this deeper order.

At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes from the long-forgotten past.

What else the superhologram contains is an open-ended question. Allowing, for the sake of argument, that the superhologram is the matrix that has given birth to everything in our universe, at the very least it contains every subatomic particle that has been or will be -- every configuration of matter and energy that is possible, from snowflakes to quasars, from blue whales to gamma rays.

It must be seen as a sort of cosmic storehouse of "All That Is."

Although Bohm concedes that we have no way of knowing what else might lie hidden in the superhologram, he does venture to say that we have no reason to assume it does not contain more. Or as he puts it, perhaps the superholographic level of reality is a "mere stage" beyond which lies "an infinity of further development".

Bohm is not the only researcher who has found evidence that the universe is a hologram.

Working independently in the field of brain research, Standford neurophysiologist Karl Pribram has also become persuaded of the holographic nature of reality.

Pribram was drawn to the holographic model by the puzzle of how and where memories are stored in the brain. For decades numerous studies have shown that rather than being confined to a specific location, memories are dispersed throughout the brain.

In a series of landmark experiments in the 1920s, brain scientist Karl Lashley found that no matter what portion of a rat's brain he removed he was unable to eradicate its memory of how to perform complex tasks it had learned prior to surgery. The only problem was that no one was able to come up with a mechanism that might explain this curious "whole in every part" nature of memory storage.

Then in the 1960s Pribram encountered the concept of holography and realized he had found the explanation brain scientists had been looking for. Pribram believes memories are encoded not in neurons, or small groupings of neurons, but in patterns of nerve impulses that crisscross the entire brain in the same way that patterns of laser light interference crisscross the entire area of a piece of film containing a holographic image. In other words, Pribram believes the brain is itself a hologram.

Pribram's theory also explains how the human brain can store so many memories in so little space. It has been estimated that the human brain has the capacity to memorize something on the order of 10 billion bits of information during the average human lifetime (or roughly the same amount of information contained in five sets of the Encyclopaedia Britannica).

Similarly, it has been discovered that in addition to their other capabilities, holograms possess an astounding capacity for information storage--simply by changing the angle at which the two lasers strike a piece of photographic film, it is possible to record many different images on the same surface. It has been demonstrated that one cubic centimeter of film can hold as many as 10 billion bits of information.

Our uncanny ability to quickly retrieve whatever information we need from the enormous store of our memories becomes more understandable if the brain functions according to holographic principles. If a friend asks you to tell him what comes to mind when he says the word "zebra", you do not have to clumsily sort back through some gigantic and cerebral alphabetic file to arrive at an answer. Instead, associations like "striped", "horselike", and "animal native to Africa" all pop into your head instantly. Indeed, one of the most amazing things about the human thinking process is that every piece of information seems instantly cross- correlated with every other piece of information--another feature intrinsic to the hologram. Because every portion of a hologram is infinitely interconnected with ever other portion, it is perhaps nature's supreme example of a cross-correlated system.

The storage of memory is not the only neurophysiological puzzle that becomes more tractable in light of Pribram's holographic model of the brain. Another is how the brain is able to translate the avalanche of frequencies it receives via the senses (light frequencies, sound frequencies, and so on) into the concrete world of our perceptions. Encoding and decoding frequencies is precisely what a hologram does best. Just as a hologram functions as a sort of lens, a translating device able to convert an apparently meaningless blur of frequencies into a coherent image, Pribram believes the brain also comprises a lens and uses holographic principles to mathematically convert the frequencies it receives through he senses into the inner world of our perceptions.

An impressive body of evidence suggests that the brain uses holographic principles to perform its operations. Pribram's theory, in fact, has gained increasing support among neurophysiologists.

Argentinean-Italian researcher Hugo Zucarelli recently extended the holographic model into the world of acoustic phenomena. Puzzled by the fact that humans can locate the source of sounds without moving their heads, even if they only possess hearing in one ear, Zucarelli discovered that holographic principles can explain this ability. Zucarelli has also developed the technology of holophonic sound, a recording technique able to reproduce acoustic situations with an almost uncanny realism.

Pribram's belief that our brains mathematically construct "hard" reality by relying on input from a frequency domain has also received a good deal of experimental support.

It has been found that each of our senses is sensitive to a much broader range of frequencies than was previously suspected. Researchers have discovered, for instance, that our visual systems are sensitive to sound frequencies, that our sense of smell is in part dependent on what are now called "cosmic frequencies", and that even the cells in our bodies are sensitive to a broad range of frequencies. Such findings suggest that it is only in the holographic domain of consciousness that such frequencies are sorted out and divided up into conventional perceptions.

But the most mind-boggling aspect of Pribram's holographic model of the brain is what happens when it is put together with Bohm's theory.

For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality and what is "there" is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and if the brain is also a hologram and only selects some of the frequencies out of this blur and mathematically transforms them into sensory perceptions, what becomes of objective reality?

Put quite simply, it ceases to exist.

As the religions of the East have long upheld, the material world is Maya, an illusion, and although we may think we are physical beings moving through a physical world, this too is an illusion.

We are really "receivers" floating through a kaleidoscopic sea of frequency, and what we extract from this sea and transmogrify into physical reality is but one channel from many extracted out of the superhologram.

This striking new picture of reality, the synthesis of Bohm and Pribram's views, has come to be called the holographic paradigm, and although many scientists have greeted it with skepticism, it has galvanized others. A small but growing group of researchers believe it may be the most accurate model of reality science has arrived at thus far. More than that, some believe it may solve some mysteries that have never before been explainable by science and even establish the paranormal as a part of nature.

Numerous researchers, including Bohm and Pribram, have noted that many para-psychological phenomena become much more understandable in terms of the holographic paradigm.

In a universe in which individual brains are actually indivisible portions of the greater hologram and everything is infinitely interconnected, telepathy may merely be the accessing of the holographic level.

It is obviously much easier to understand how information can travel from the mind of individual 'A' to that of individual 'B' at a far distance point and helps to understand a number of unsolved puzzles in psychology. In particular, Grof feels the holographic paradigm offers a model for understanding many of the baffling phenomena experienced by individuals during altered states of consciousness.

As Grof recently noted, if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange.

The holographic prardigm also has implications for so-called hard sciences like biology. Keith Floyd, a psychologist at Virginia Intermont College, has pointed out that if the concreteness of reality is but a holographic illusion, it would no longer be true to say the brain produces consciousness.

Rather, it is consciousness that creates the appearance of the brain -- as well as the body and everything else around us we interpret as physical.

Such a turnabout in the way we view biological structures has caused researchers to point out that medicine and our understanding of the healing process could also be transformed by the holographic paradigm. If the apparent physical structure of the body is but a holographic projection of consciousness, it becomes clear that each of us is much more responsible for our health than current medical wisdom allows. What we now view as miraculous remissions of disease may actually be due to changes in consciousness which in turn effect changes in the hologram of the body.

Similarly, controversial new healing techniques such as visualization may work so well because in the holographic domain of thought images are ultimately as real as "reality".

Even visions and experiences involving "non-ordinary" reality become explainable under the holographic paradigm.

In his book "Gifts of Unknown Things," biologist Lyall Watson discribes his encounter with an Indonesian shaman woman who, by performing a ritual dance, was able to make an entire grove of trees instantly vanish into thin air. Watson relates that as he and another astonished onlooker continued to watch the woman, she caused the trees to reappear, then "click" off again and on again several times in succession.

Although current scientific understanding is incapable of explaining such events, experiences like this become more tenable if "hard" reality is only a holographic projection.

Perhaps we agree on what is "there" or "not there" because what we call consensus reality is formulated and ratified at the level of the human unconscious at which all minds are infinitely interconnected.

If this is true, it is the most profound implication of the holographic paradigm of all, for it means that experiences such as Watson's are not commonplace only because we have not programmed our minds with the beliefs that would make them so.

In a holographic universe there are no limits to the extent to which we can alter the fabric of reality.

What we perceive as reality is only a canvas waiting for us to draw upon it any picture we want. Anything is possible, from bending spoons with the power of the mind to the phantasmagoric events experienced by Castaneda during his encounters with the Yaqui brujo don Juan, for magic is our birthright, no more or less miraculous than our ability to compute the reality we want when we are in our dreams.

Indeed, even our most fundamental notions about reality become suspect, for in a holographic universe, as Pribram has pointed out, even random events would have to be seen as based on holographic principles and therefore determined.

Synchronicities or meaningful coincidences suddenly makes sense, and everything in reality would have to be seen as a metaphor, for even the most haphazard events would express some underlying symmetry. (The dance of Shiva)

September 12, 2003

Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

<sandeepc@b...> wrote:

>

> Dan, for you......

>

> For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality and

what is " there " is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and if

the brain is also a hologram and only selects some of the frequencies

out of this blur and mathematically transforms them into sensory

perceptions, what becomes of objective reality?

>

> Put quite simply, it ceases to exist.

Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is just

an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself. The

problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too far,

and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram as a

blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has to

be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves

objective reality doesn't exist.

What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe.

Pete

>

September 12, 2003

seesaw1us wrote:

Very

interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is just

an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself. The

problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too far,

and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram as a

blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has to

be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves

objective reality doesn't exist.

What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe.

Pete

Yes. The eagerness to believe in something, simply showing up

in more subtle ways..

Love to all

Harsha

September 12, 2003

Hi Pete,

> Frequences, in physics is the rate at which vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has to be vibrating. <

In this context, do you consider the wind to

be "something physical"?

Melody

September 12, 2003

Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us>

wrote:

> Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

> <sandeepc@b...> wrote:

> >

> > Dan, for you......

> >

>

> >

> > For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality

and

> what is " there " is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and

if

> the brain is also a hologram and only selects some of the

frequencies

> out of this blur and mathematically transforms them into sensory

> perceptions, what becomes of objective reality?

> >

> > Put quite simply, it ceases to exist.

>

> Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is just

> an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself. The

> problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too far,

> and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

>

> Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram as

a

> blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

> vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has

to

> be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves

> objective reality doesn't exist.

>

> What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe.

>

> Pete

> >

Science and religion = two sides of the same coin

It's all conceptual conjecture.

If you want me, i'll be sunning and playing on

the beach in Bali.

Freyja

> >

September 12, 2003

-

Harsha

Nisargadatta

Friday, September 12, 2003 10:21 PM

Re: Re: The Universe as a Hologram

seesaw1us wrote:

Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is justan useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself. The problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too far, and try to transform an example into an universal truth.Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram as a blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has to be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves objective reality doesn't exist.What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe. Pete

Yes. The eagerness to believe in something, simply showing up in more subtle ways.. Love to allHarsha

Ahaa, good old Harsha.

How are you doing?

Still trying to keep crumbling bridges intact?:-)

Pete,

Ofcourse the hologram is a conceptual model.

And once again that was a collation from very unspiritual people with whom there has been "some walkings".

Vibration, Pete,.. does not need something physical to vibrate.

In fact physicality is a consequence of a particular format or mode of vibrations.

Draw two criss-crossing lines on a blank piece of paper.

At the point of the criss-cross, there is an appearance of a point.

There is none, but there is an appearance of one.

If you see a rotating ceiling fan, at a certain frequency of rotation, a physical circle is seen to be formed.

Similarly, vibrating energy-patterns (if you are interested have a look at the String theory), criss-crossing in a far more complex mode and in multidimensions,...........throws up a fornicating cat on a tin roof out there and a Harsha out here, ...

....the Andromeda galaxy and the Aids virus.

An exploding super-nova and a tiny ant struggling with it's load.

A ruddy enlightened sage, a grinning clown under the BigTop at a circus.

Now you may say, isn't there a vibrations of something, maybe it's energy patterns but at least something, there must be some independent objective reality.

Since ....."there is no observer outside of what is being observed, and nothing being observed that is outside of the observer".....

....criss-crossing vibrating energy patterns,.....is again a concept.

Consciousness is a concept.

The famous right-side Heart of Ramana is a concept.

For there is nothing outside or apart from energy patterns, to validate the very existence of the energy patterns.

It is in this sense that there is no objective reality independent of an observer of it, pointed by the expression....Awareness not aware of itself.

September 12, 2003

Science and religion = two sides of the same coin

> > It's all conceptual conjecture.

> > If you want me, i'll be sunning and playing on

> the beach in Bali.

> > Freyja

<<I'm 67, love, refresh my mind. Once I get to Bali and get you, what do I do with you then? >>

You're only 67 and you're asking me what to do?

That's pretty bad, Petey. ;-)

Anyway, just get naked. The rest takes care of itself.

Sometimes we have ladies' mud wrestling

and men's boxing, along with the other sports,

like intellectual sparring.

It's really a lot of fun.

<<lOVE you and Melody anyway. Nothing like conversing with an intelligent woman to make an old man feel young again,>>

:-))

freyja

Pete

pETE

September 12, 2003

Nisargadatta , " Melody " <melodyande@c...> wrote:

> Hi Pete,

>

> > Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

> vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has

to

> be vibrating. <

>

> In this context, do you consider the wind to

> be " something physical " ?

>

> Melody

Hi Melody,

This is a joke, right? Wind is the movement of air.

Oh, I get it! You are referring to Sandeep's joke

about the hurricane and the coconut tree.

Yes, keeping my nuts out of the wind, not only have

kept them save, but kept me out of jail, as well.

Good joke, thanks.

Pete

September 12, 2003

Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 "

<freyjartist@a...> wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us>

> wrote:

> > Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

> > <sandeepc@b...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dan, for you......

> > >

> >

> > >

> > > For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality

> and

> > what is " there " is actually a holographic blur of frequencies,

and

> if

> > the brain is also a hologram and only selects some of the

> frequencies

> > out of this blur and mathematically transforms them into sensory

> > perceptions, what becomes of objective reality?

> > >

> > > Put quite simply, it ceases to exist.

> >

> > Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is

just

> > an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself.

The

> > problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too

far,

> > and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

> >

> > Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram

as

> a

> > blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

> > vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has

> to

> > be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves

> > objective reality doesn't exist.

> >

> > What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe.

> >

> > Pete

> > >

>

> Science and religion = two sides of the same coin

>

> It's all conceptual conjecture.

>

> If you want me, i'll be sunning and playing on

> the beach in Bali.

>

> Freyja

I'm 67, love, refresh my mind. Once I get to Bali and get you, what

do I do with you then?

lOVE you and Melody anyway. Nothing like conversing with an

intelligent woman to make an old man feel young again,

Pete

pETE

September 12, 2003

Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

<sandeepc@b...> wrote:

>

> -

> Harsha

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, September 12, 2003 10:21 PM

> Re: Re: The Universe as a Hologram

>

> seesaw1us wrote:

>

> Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is

just

> an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself.

The

> problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too

far,

> and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

>

> Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram

as a

> blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

> vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical

has to

> be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves

> objective reality doesn't exist.

>

> What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe.

>

> Pete

>

> Yes. The eagerness to believe in something, simply showing up in

more subtle ways..

>

> Love to all

> Harsha

> Ahaa, good old Harsha.

> How are you doing?

> Still trying to keep crumbling bridges intact?:-)

>

> Pete,

> Ofcourse the hologram is a conceptual model.

> And once again that was a collation from very unspiritual people

with whom there has been " some walkings " .

>

> Vibration, Pete,.. does not need something physical to vibrate.

>

> In fact physicality is a consequence of a particular format or

mode of vibrations.

Hi Sandeep,

P: Let me start by saying that I recognize that you, as well as I, do

not need to understand or explain reality to ourselves. 'I' enjoy

reality directly (no explanations needed)and so do 'you'.

We are here like a couple of rich dudes discussing the workings of

their luxury cars. They don't need to know how the engine works.

They have enough money to pay for mechanics to worry about that, or

buy a new one if need be. But they love to talk about their cars. So

if one says: My engine has the power of x horses, and the other says

you can't fit that many horses under the hood, then the conversation

becomes a joke and ends there.

That vibrations doesn't need something physical to vibrate is a bad

joke. Not even the most wild eyed physicist dare assert that

energy fields, Higgs particles, or strings for that matter are not

physical and originate in Consciousness or any other spiritual realm.

>

> Draw two criss-crossing lines on a blank piece of paper.

> At the point of the criss-cross, there is an appearance of a

point.

> There is none, but there is an appearance of one.

>

> If you see a rotating ceiling fan, at a certain frequency of

rotation, a physical circle is seen to be formed.

>

> Similarly, vibrating energy-patterns (if you are interested have

a look at the String theory), criss-crossing in a far more complex

mode and in multidimensions,...........throws up a fornicating cat on

a tin roof out there and a Harsha out here, ...

P: again all that is within the realm of physics and math. No need

for incantations or dry frog skins.

>

> ...the Andromeda galaxy and the Aids virus.

>

> An exploding super-nova and a tiny ant struggling with it's load.

>

> A ruddy enlightened sage, a grinning clown under the BigTop at a

circus.

>

> Now you may say, isn't there a vibrations of something, maybe

it's energy patterns but at least something, there must be some

independent objective reality.

>

> Since ..... " there is no observer outside of what is being

observed, and nothing being observed that is outside of the

observer " .....

>

> ...criss-crossing vibrating energy patterns,.....is again a

concept.

>

> Consciousness is a concept.

>

> The famous right-side Heart of Ramana is a concept.

>

> For there is nothing outside or apart from energy patterns, to

validate the very existence of the energy patterns.

P: Yes, yes, but energy patterns are physical.

> It is in this sense that there is no objective reality

independent of an observer of it, pointed by the

expression....Awareness not aware of itself.

P: Yes, yes, but we are talking and must observe the rules of

language and logic. If we want to shut up and sink into

complete rest, then none of the above is needed. And I am going to do

just that, go sit by the pool and watch the breeze ruffle the surface

of the water.

Have a lovely day,

Pete

September 12, 2003

Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

<sandeepc@b...> wrote:

>

> Dan, for you......

Sandeep, thanks for posting this.

I enjoyed it thoroughly, and indeed,

although having never seen this before,

recognized the

the correspondences to which I believe you're

alluding.

Nice synchronicity.

It seems quite on target to me, up to a point.

That point of limitation, which seems curious

to me about the writing

below, is that there seems to remain an interested

specator experiencing excitement --

the author still seems interested

in things like, " what else may be in the storehouse, "

as if there is something and then something else,

or " what consciousness will manifest from the hologram "

" how we can alter the fabric of reality " ...

things like that.

If any sense of an objectively existing universe dissolves,

then with it must go any sense of the subjective

awareness to which objects seemingly appear.

Then, where would be found the first thing that could

appear from the storehouse, let along other things?

Where would anything at all be manifested by anything,

including by consciousness?

Altering the fabric of reality could only be of interest

to an alterer, who had some kind of interest in

having things appear -- but we already said there are

no things appearing, didn't we?

In other words, there seems to me a subtle hanging on to

assumptions about experiences really taking place,

in spite of the " isn't this a remarkable

discovery, that there is no objective universe " tone

of the writing. That " no thing existing "

would have to include any

experience of " this being a remarkable discovery,

that there is no objective universe " -- which

experience also would have no where to take place,

and no existing being to have that experience.

Another way to say this, is that with all time occurring

at once, there is no time in which anything can take

place, including a realization that nothing has

taken place.

Love,

Dan

>

> In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris a

research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn

out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century.

You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you

are in the habit of reading scientific journals you probably have

never even heard Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his

discovery may change the face of science.

>

> Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances

subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously

communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating

them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles

apart.

>

> Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing.

The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held

tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of

light. Since traveling faster than the speed of light is tantamount

to breaking the time barrier, this daunting prospect has caused some

physicists to try to come up with elaborate ways to explain away

Aspect's findings. But it has inspired others to offer even more

radical explanations.

>

> University of London physicist David Bohm, for example, believes

Aspect's findings imply that objective reality does not exist, that

despite its apparent solidity the universe is at heart a phantasm, a

gigantic and splendidly detailed hologram.

>

> To understand why Bohm makes this startling assertion, one must

first understand a little about holograms. A hologram is a three-

dimensional photograph made with the aid of a laser.

>

> To make a hologram, the object to be photographed is first bathed

in the light of a laser beam. Then a second laser beam is bounced off

the reflected light of the first and the resulting interference

pattern (the area where the two laser beams co-mingle) is captured on

film.

>

> When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of

light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is

illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the

original object appears.

>

> The three-dimensionality of such images is not the only remarkable

characteristic of holograms. If a hologram of a rose is cut in half

and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to

contain the entire image of the rose.

> Indeed, even if the halves are divided again, each snippet of film

will always be found to contain a smaller but intact version of the

original image. Unlike normal photographs, every part of a hologram

contains all the information possessed by the whole.

>

> The " whole in every part " nature of a hologram provides us with an

entirely new way of understanding organization and order. For most of

its history, Western science has labored under the bias that the best

way to understand a physical phenomenon, whether a frog or an atom,

is to dissect it and study its respective parts.

>

> A hologram teaches us that some things in the universe may not lend

themselves to this approach. If we try to take apart something

constructed holographically, we will not get the pieces of which it

is made, we will only get smaller wholes.

>

> This insight suggested to Bohm another way of understanding

Aspect's discovery.

>

> Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain in

contact with one another regardless of the distance separating them

is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal back

and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion. He argues

that at some deeper level of reality such particles are not

individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same

fundamental something.

>

> To enable people to better visualize what he means, Bohm offers the

following illustration.

>

> Imagine an aquarium containing a fish. Imagine also that you are

unable to see the aquarium directly and your knowledge about it and

what it contains comes from two television cameras, one directed at

the aquarium's front and the other directed at its side.

>

> As you stare at the two television monitors, you might assume that

the fish on each of the screens are separate entities. After all,

because the cameras are set at different angles, each of the images

will be slightly different. But as you continue to watch the two

fish, you will eventually become aware that there is a certain

relationship between them.

> When one turns, the other also makes a slightly different but

corresponding turn; when one faces the front, the other always faces

toward the side. If you remain unaware of the full scope of the

situation, you might even conclude that the fish must be

instantaneously communicating with one another, but this is clearly

not the case.

>

> This, says Bohm, is precisely what is going on between the

subatomic particles in Aspect's experiment.

>

> According to Bohm, the apparent faster-than-light connection

between subatomic particles is really telling us that there is a

deeper level of reality we are not privy to, a more complex dimension

beyond our own that is analogous to the aquarium. And, he adds, we

view objects such as subatomic particles as separate from one another

because we are seeing only a portion of their reality.

>

> Such particles are not separate " parts " , but facets of a deeper and

more underlying unity that is ultimately as holographic and

indivisible as the previously mentioned rose.

>

> And since everything in physical reality is comprised of

these " eidolons " , the universe is itself a projection, a hologram.

> In addition to its phantomlike nature, such a universe would

possess other rather startling features. If the apparent separateness

of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level

of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected.

>

> The electrons in a carbon atom in the human brain are connected to

the subatomic particles that comprise every salmon that swims, every

heart that beats, and every star that shimmers in the sky.

>

> Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature

may seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide, the various

phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity

artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web.

> In a holographic universe, even time and space could no longer be

viewed as fundamentals. Because concepts such as location break down

in a universe in which nothing is truly separate from anything else,

time and three-dimensional space, like the images of the fish on the

TV monitors, would also have to be viewed as projections of this

deeper order.

>

> At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the

past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests

that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday

reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes

from the long-forgotten past.

>

> What else the superhologram contains is an open-ended question.

Allowing, for the sake of argument, that the superhologram is the

matrix that has given birth to everything in our universe, at the

very least it contains every subatomic particle that has been or will

be -- every configuration of matter and energy that is possible, from

snowflakes to quasars, from blue whales to gamma rays.

>

> It must be seen as a sort of cosmic storehouse of " All That Is. "

>

> Although Bohm concedes that we have no way of knowing what else

might lie hidden in the superhologram, he does venture to say that we

have no reason to assume it does not contain more. Or as he puts it,

perhaps the superholographic level of reality is a " mere stage "

beyond which lies " an infinity of further development " .

>

> Bohm is not the only researcher who has found evidence that the

universe is a hologram.

>

> Working independently in the field of brain research, Standford

neurophysiologist Karl Pribram has also become persuaded of the

holographic nature of reality.

>

> Pribram was drawn to the holographic model by the puzzle of how and

where memories are stored in the brain. For decades numerous studies

have shown that rather than being confined to a specific location,

memories are dispersed throughout the brain.

>

> In a series of landmark experiments in the 1920s, brain scientist

Karl Lashley found that no matter what portion of a rat's brain he

removed he was unable to eradicate its memory of how to perform

complex tasks it had learned prior to surgery. The only problem was

that no one was able to come up with a mechanism that might explain

this curious " whole in every part " nature of memory storage.

>

> Then in the 1960s Pribram encountered the concept of holography and

realized he had found the explanation brain scientists had been

looking for. Pribram believes memories are encoded not in neurons, or

small groupings of neurons, but in patterns of nerve impulses that

crisscross the entire brain in the same way that patterns of laser

light interference crisscross the entire area of a piece of film

containing a holographic image. In other words, Pribram believes the

brain is itself a hologram.

>

> Pribram's theory also explains how the human brain can store so

many memories in so little space. It has been estimated that the

human brain has the capacity to memorize something on the order of 10

billion bits of information during the average human lifetime (or

roughly the same amount of information contained in five sets of the

Encyclopaedia Britannica).

>

> Similarly, it has been discovered that in addition to their other

capabilities, holograms possess an astounding capacity for

information storage--simply by changing the angle at which the two

lasers strike a piece of photographic film, it is possible to record

many different images on the same surface. It has been demonstrated

that one cubic centimeter of film can hold as many as 10 billion bits

of information.

>

> Our uncanny ability to quickly retrieve whatever information we

need from the enormous store of our memories becomes more

understandable if the brain functions according to holographic

principles. If a friend asks you to tell him what comes to mind when

he says the word " zebra " , you do not have to clumsily sort back

through some gigantic and cerebral alphabetic file to arrive at an

answer. Instead, associations like " striped " , " horselike " ,

and " animal native to Africa " all pop into your head instantly.

> Indeed, one of the most amazing things about the human thinking

process is that every piece of information seems instantly cross-

correlated with every other piece of information--another feature

intrinsic to the hologram. Because every portion of a hologram is

infinitely interconnected with ever other portion, it is perhaps

nature's supreme example of a cross-correlated system.

>

> The storage of memory is not the only neurophysiological puzzle

that becomes more tractable in light of Pribram's holographic model

of the brain. Another is how the brain is able to translate the

avalanche of frequencies it receives via the senses (light

frequencies, sound frequencies, and so on) into the concrete world of

our perceptions. Encoding and decoding frequencies is precisely what

a hologram does best. Just as a hologram functions as a sort of lens,

a translating device able to convert an apparently meaningless blur

of frequencies into a coherent image, Pribram believes the brain also

comprises a lens and uses holographic principles to mathematically

convert the frequencies it receives through he senses into the inner

world of our perceptions.

>

> An impressive body of evidence suggests that the brain uses

holographic principles to perform its operations. Pribram's theory,

in fact, has gained increasing support among neurophysiologists.

>

> Argentinean-Italian researcher Hugo Zucarelli recently extended the

holographic model into the world of acoustic phenomena. Puzzled by

the fact that humans can locate the source of sounds without moving

their heads, even if they only possess hearing in one ear, Zucarelli

discovered that holographic principles can explain this ability.

> Zucarelli has also developed the technology of holophonic sound, a

recording technique able to reproduce acoustic situations with an

almost uncanny realism.

>

> Pribram's belief that our brains mathematically construct " hard "

reality by relying on input from a frequency domain has also received

a good deal of experimental support.

>

> It has been found that each of our senses is sensitive to a much

broader range of frequencies than was previously suspected.

> Researchers have discovered, for instance, that our visual systems

are sensitive to sound frequencies, that our sense of smell is in

part dependent on what are now called " cosmic frequencies " , and that

even the cells in our bodies are sensitive to a broad range of

frequencies. Such findings suggest that it is only in the holographic

domain of consciousness that such frequencies are sorted out and

divided up into conventional perceptions.

>

> But the most mind-boggling aspect of Pribram's holographic model of

the brain is what happens when it is put together with Bohm's theory.

>

> For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality and

what is " there " is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and if

the brain is also a hologram and only selects some of the frequencies

out of this blur and mathematically transforms them into sensory

perceptions, what becomes of objective reality?

>

> Put quite simply, it ceases to exist.

>

> As the religions of the East have long upheld, the material world

is Maya, an illusion, and although we may think we are physical

beings moving through a physical world, this too is an illusion.

>

> We are really " receivers " floating through a kaleidoscopic sea of

frequency, and what we extract from this sea and transmogrify into

physical reality is but one channel from many extracted out of the

superhologram.

>

> This striking new picture of reality, the synthesis of Bohm and

Pribram's views, has come to be called the holographic paradigm, and

although many scientists have greeted it with skepticism, it has

galvanized others. A small but growing group of researchers believe

it may be the most accurate model of reality science has arrived at

thus far. More than that, some believe it may solve some mysteries

that have never before been explainable by science and even establish

the paranormal as a part of nature.

>

> Numerous researchers, including Bohm and Pribram, have noted that

many para-psychological phenomena become much more understandable in

terms of the holographic paradigm.

>

> In a universe in which individual brains are actually indivisible

portions of the greater hologram and everything is infinitely

interconnected, telepathy may merely be the accessing of the

holographic level.

>

> It is obviously much easier to understand how information can

travel from the mind of individual 'A' to that of individual 'B' at a

far distance point and helps to understand a number of unsolved

puzzles in psychology. In particular, Grof feels the holographic

paradigm offers a model for understanding many of the baffling

phenomena experienced by individuals during altered states of

consciousness.

>

> As Grof recently noted, if the mind is actually part of a

continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind

that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region

in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to

occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal

experiences no longer seems so strange.

>

> The holographic prardigm also has implications for so-called hard

sciences like biology. Keith Floyd, a psychologist at Virginia

Intermont College, has pointed out that if the concreteness of

reality is but a holographic illusion, it would no longer be true to

say the brain produces consciousness.

>

> Rather, it is consciousness that creates the appearance of the

brain -- as well as the body and everything else around us we

interpret as physical.

>

> Such a turnabout in the way we view biological structures has

caused researchers to point out that medicine and our understanding

of the healing process could also be transformed by the holographic

paradigm. If the apparent physical structure of the body is but a

holographic projection of consciousness, it becomes clear that each

of us is much more responsible for our health than current medical

wisdom allows. What we now view as miraculous remissions of disease

may actually be due to changes in consciousness which in turn effect

changes in the hologram of the body.

>

> Similarly, controversial new healing techniques such as

visualization may work so well because in the holographic domain of

thought images are ultimately as real as " reality " .

>

> Even visions and experiences involving " non-ordinary " reality

become explainable under the holographic paradigm.

>

> In his book " Gifts of Unknown Things, " biologist Lyall Watson

discribes his encounter with an Indonesian shaman woman who, by

performing a ritual dance, was able to make an entire grove of trees

instantly vanish into thin air. Watson relates that as he and another

astonished onlooker continued to watch the woman, she caused the

trees to reappear, then " click " off again and on again several times

in succession.

>

> Although current scientific understanding is incapable of

explaining such events, experiences like this become more tenable

if " hard " reality is only a holographic projection.

>

> Perhaps we agree on what is " there " or " not there " because what we

call consensus reality is formulated and ratified at the level of the

human unconscious at which all minds are infinitely interconnected.

>

> If this is true, it is the most profound implication of the

holographic paradigm of all, for it means that experiences such as

Watson's are not commonplace only because we have not programmed our

minds with the beliefs that would make them so.

>

> In a holographic universe there are no limits to the extent to

which we can alter the fabric of reality.

>

> What we perceive as reality is only a canvas waiting for us to draw

upon it any picture we want. Anything is possible, from bending

spoons with the power of the mind to the phantasmagoric events

experienced by Castaneda during his encounters with the Yaqui brujo

don Juan, for magic is our birthright, no more or less miraculous

than our ability to compute the reality we want when we are in our

dreams.

>

> Indeed, even our most fundamental notions about reality become

suspect, for in a holographic universe, as Pribram has pointed out,

even random events would have to be seen as based on holographic

principles and therefore determined.

>

> Synchronicities or meaningful coincidences suddenly makes sense,

and everything in reality would have to be seen as a metaphor, for

even the most haphazard events would express some underlying

symmetry. (The dance of Shiva)

September 12, 2003

Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

<sandeepc@b...> wrote:

>

> -

> Harsha

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, September 12, 2003 10:21 PM

> Re: Re: The Universe as a Hologram

>

> seesaw1us wrote:

>

> Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is

just

> an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself.

The

> problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too

far,

> and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

>

> Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram

as a

> blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

> vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical

has to

> be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves

> objective reality doesn't exist.

>

> What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe.

>

> Pete

>

> Yes. The eagerness to believe in something, simply showing up in

more subtle ways..

>

> Love to all

> Harsha

> Ahaa, good old Harsha.

> How are you doing?

> Still trying to keep crumbling bridges intact?:-)

>

> Pete,

> Ofcourse the hologram is a conceptual model.

> And once again that was a collation from very unspiritual people

with whom there has been " some walkings " .

>

> Vibration, Pete,.. does not need something physical to vibrate.

>

> In fact physicality is a consequence of a particular format or

mode of vibrations.

>

> Draw two criss-crossing lines on a blank piece of paper.

> At the point of the criss-cross, there is an appearance of a

point.

> There is none, but there is an appearance of one.

>

> If you see a rotating ceiling fan, at a certain frequency of

rotation, a physical circle is seen to be formed.

>

> Similarly, vibrating energy-patterns (if you are interested have

a look at the String theory), criss-crossing in a far more complex

mode and in multidimensions,...........throws up a fornicating cat on

a tin roof out there and a Harsha out here, ...

>

> ...the Andromeda galaxy and the Aids virus.

>

> An exploding super-nova and a tiny ant struggling with it's load.

>

> A ruddy enlightened sage, a grinning clown under the BigTop at a

circus.

>

> Now you may say, isn't there a vibrations of something, maybe

it's energy patterns but at least something, there must be some

independent objective reality.

>

> Since ..... " there is no observer outside of what is being

observed, and nothing being observed that is outside of the

observer " .....

>

> ...criss-crossing vibrating energy patterns,.....is again a

concept.

>

> Consciousness is a concept.

>

> The famous right-side Heart of Ramana is a concept.

>

> For there is nothing outside or apart from energy patterns, to

validate the very existence of the energy patterns.

> It is in this sense that there is no objective reality

independent of an observer of it, pointed by the

expression....Awareness not aware of itself.

Hi Sandeep --

You're explaining this very well.

One illusion of explanation is that

someone could follow what is being

said with enough clarity to

be that which is articulating.

But, if so, one would already

always be all that is ...

no explanation involved.

" Here " explanation dissolves into the knowing

which can't be known.

Which I know you know.

:-)

-- Dan

September 13, 2003

-

seesaw1us

Nisargadatta

Saturday, September 13, 2003 02:13 AM

Re: The Universe as a Hologram

<SNIP>

Hi Sandeep,P: Let me start by saying that I recognize that you, as well as I, donot need to understand or explain reality to ourselves. 'I' enjoy reality directly (no explanations needed)and so do 'you'.

Sure.

When the Remy Martin, the Cohibas and the loving ladies, gets somewhat depleted,......talk about dancing energy patterns happens.

We are here like a couple of rich dudes discussing the workings of their luxury cars. They don't need to know how the engine works.They have enough money to pay for mechanics to worry about that, or buy a new one if need be. But they love to talk about their cars. Soif one says: My engine has the power of x horses, and the other says you can't fit that many horses under the hood, then the conversation becomes a joke and ends there.That vibrations doesn't need something physical to vibrate is a bad joke. Not even the most wild eyed physicist dare assert thatenergy fields, Higgs particles, or strings for that matter are not physical and originate in Consciousness or any other spiritual realm.

Any explanation of the moment, needs the contextual background, for that explanation to have any meaning.

So something is taken as given and then sand-castles built on that given.

The "wave" in the Ocean has no independent existential reality.

Only the Ocean is.

This "fact" can be observed, cognized and hence affirmed, validated by the strolling observer on the sea-shore.

That observation and hence the validation of the "isness" of only the Ocean, is possible, only because the stroller on the sea-shore is separate from the "wave-Ocean" continuum.

All observation, and hence all affirmation(negation being an affirmation in the reverse direction) and thus all experiences, profound or profane, need this separation.

Now suppose there is no stroller on the sea-shore.

There is no sea-shore at all.

Just the holographic Oceanic expanse.

And nada else.

Can this holographic Oceanic expanse be observed and asserted?

Ergo, is any observation, any affirmation, any experience, anything more than a hoopla?

That is only the point which arises, when one runs out of some fine Chablis, chilled but not too chilled.

<SNIP> > It is in this sense that there is no objective reality independent of an observer of it, pointed by the expression....Awareness not aware of itself.P: Yes, yes, but we are talking and must observe the rules oflanguage and logic. If we want to shut up and sink intocomplete rest, then none of the above is needed. And I am going to do just that, go sit by the pool and watch the breeze ruffle the surface of the water.

Yes.

Just keep a watch on that breeze, ..........if it starts to turn into a hurricane,....you know what you have to hold onto.

You might have to lend a hand to Harsha though.<LOL>

Have a lovely day,

You too, Pete.

67 eh?

A ruddy spring chicken.

There was this old rooster, getting on the years.

The hens were getting a bit frustrated and often complained to the owner, on deteriorating services in the neighborhood.

The owner would go and buy a young cock-sure rooster to boost services.

Whenever this happened, the old rooster would approach the young shogun and ask that out of the harem, if he could have only one of the them, just to keep the hand in.

The young rooster, proud of his prowess's of unconditional love, would refuse.

So the old rooster said 'OK let's have a race, whoever wins, gets the full Monty"

The young rooster laughing agreed, even to the old rooster's request that since he was much older, he should be given a head start and then the young stud should start running.

Next morning, .........show time, ........all the giggling hens egging the two combatants on.... Squawk.....the old rooster shoots off, and after a few seconds, the young one is off the blocks.

Couple of rounds around the neighborhood, just when the young rooster is about to overtake the old guy,...BANG, a rifle shot and the young rooster is dead.

"Damn" mutters the owner, "that thieving Yankee, sold me the 5th gay rooster in the last 6 months".

Might like to keep that in mind, while on the pristine sands of Bali.

Aaah, beautiful Bali, where everybody keeps losing their nuts.

September 13, 2003

Hi Dan,

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Saturday, September 13, 2003 02:16 AM

Re: The Universe as a Hologram

Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee <sandeepc@b...> wrote:> > > > Dan, for you......Sandeep, thanks for posting this.I enjoyed it thoroughly, and indeed, although having never seen this before, recognized the the correspondences to which I believe you're alluding.Nice synchronicity.It seems quite on target to me, up to a point.

It is always so, isn't it? :-)

The need to make a point, itself being the limiting point.

That point of limitation, which seems curious to me about the writing below, is that there seems to remain an interested specator experiencing excitement -- the author still seems interested in things like, "what else may be in the storehouse," as if there is something and then something else, or "what consciousness will manifest from the hologram" "how we can alter the fabric of reality" ... things like that.

Yes.

The separation is still taken as a "given".

Ofcourse the apparently prevailing sense of separation, itself being the storehouse in frenzy.

If any sense of an objectively existing universe dissolves, then with it must go any sense of the subjective awareness to which objects seemingly appear.

Moo.Then, where would be found the first thing that could appear from the storehouse, let along other things?Where would anything at all be manifested by anything, including by consciousness?

MooAltering the fabric of reality could only be of interest to an alterer, who had some kind of interest in having things appear -- but we already said there are no things appearing, didn't we?

Moo

In other words, there seems to me a subtle hanging on to assumptions about experiences really taking place, in spite of the "isn't this a remarkable discovery, that there is no objective universe" tone of the writing.

Yes (tired of mooing)

That is the chasm, where intelligence comes upto and in most cases, retreats.

That "no thing existing" would have to include any experience of "this being a remarkable discovery, that there is no objective universe" -- which experience also would have no where to take place, and no existing being to have that experience.

Mooo

Another way to say this, is that with all time occurring at once, there is no time in which anything can take place, including a realization that nothing has taken place.

Wooo.

Harsha, are you getting all these Moos and Woos?

September 13, 2003

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Saturday, September 13, 2003 02:41 AM

Re: The Universe as a Hologram

Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee <sandeepc@b...> wrote:> > - > Harsha > Nisargadatta > Friday, September 12, 2003 10:21 PM> Re: Re: The Universe as a Hologram> > > seesaw1us wrote:> > Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is just> an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself. The > problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too far, > and try to transform an example into an universal truth.> > Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram as a > blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which > vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has to > be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves > objective reality doesn't exist.> > What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe. > > Pete> > Yes. The eagerness to believe in something, simply showing up in more subtle ways.. > > Love to all> Harsha> Ahaa, good old Harsha.> How are you doing?> Still trying to keep crumbling bridges intact?:-)> > Pete, > Ofcourse the hologram is a conceptual model.> And once again that was a collation from very unspiritual people with whom there has been "some walkings".> > Vibration, Pete,.. does not need something physical to vibrate.> > In fact physicality is a consequence of a particular format or mode of vibrations.> > Draw two criss-crossing lines on a blank piece of paper.> At the point of the criss-cross, there is an appearance of a point.> There is none, but there is an appearance of one.> > If you see a rotating ceiling fan, at a certain frequency of rotation, a physical circle is seen to be formed.> > Similarly, vibrating energy-patterns (if you are interested have a look at the String theory), criss-crossing in a far more complex mode and in multidimensions,...........throws up a fornicating cat on a tin roof out there and a Harsha out here, ...> > ...the Andromeda galaxy and the Aids virus.> > An exploding super-nova and a tiny ant struggling with it's load.> > A ruddy enlightened sage, a grinning clown under the BigTop at a circus.> > > > Now you may say, isn't there a vibrations of something, maybe it's energy patterns but at least something, there must be some independent objective reality.> > Since ....."there is no observer outside of what is being observed, and nothing being observed that is outside of the observer".....> > ...criss-crossing vibrating energy patterns,.....is again a concept.> > Consciousness is a concept.> > The famous right-side Heart of Ramana is a concept.> > For there is nothing outside or apart from energy patterns, to validate the very existence of the energy patterns.> It is in this sense that there is no objective reality independent of an observer of it, pointed by the expression....Awareness not aware of itself.Hi Sandeep --You're explaining this very well.One illusion of explanation is that someone could follow what is being said with enough clarity to be that which is articulating.But, if so, one would already always be all that is ... no explanation involved.

Except when nothing better to do, being the brilliant conversationalist that I AM, I chat myself up.

"Here" explanation dissolves into the knowingwhich can't be known.Which I know you know.:-)

Woooing Moooo.

ROFLMAO.

September 13, 2003

Sandeep: Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other

is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's

long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the

speed of light.

sk: Did Einstein affirm that no " communication " can travel faster

than the speed of light? Would like to get quote about that. Each

particle " seems to know " what the other is doing. This " seems to

know " is a very poor basis. Even for an hypothesis, not to mention a

thesis and I would say it doesn't sustain the requirements for a

theory. Is there really comunication between the particles? Is there

really a transfer of information? I see two alternative solutions:

1. some**thing** can travel faster than the speed of light or 2. we

are separating, like you suggest, something which isn't separated by

viewing it from different angles simultaneously. Why do you discard

the first alternative? Is the concept of speed of light by being

tantamount to breaking the time barrier an absolute border? We keep

on clinging, in my opinion, in some way, on a corpuscular reality by

using the term " particle " as a determinate phenomenon which can be

visualisize and absolutisizing the speed of light.

S: Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain

in contact with one another regardless of the distance separating

them is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal

back and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion. He

argues that at some deeper level of reality such particles are not

individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same

fundamental something.

sk: Bohm's vision is based on discarding the first alternative I

wrote above. No mysterious signals (they would have to be faster

than the speed of light) ergo, separateness is an illusion. It is

easier to apprehend and comprehend Bohm's vision but, even his

vision is based on the phenomenon discribed by Aspect. Without

Aspect's experiment, Bohm would not have the possibility to affirm

a " fundamental something " which shows us only its extensions. Again

here two alternatives. Not accepting the possibility to exceed the

border of the speed of light, Bohm discards a transfer of

information between two particles. Aspect's experiment seems to

imply a systematic, a methodic failure then. And my question to Bohm

would be: If the particles are extensions of an fundamental

something, could it be that this fundamental something is even too a

extension of a " more fundamental something " ? Ergo, could it be too,

that Bohms vision relying on Aspect's experiment and implying a

systematic failure is just the same systematic failure but

localisized in the opposite field of argumentation?

S: According to Bohm, the apparent faster-than-light connection

between subatomic particles is really telling us that there is a

deeper level of reality we are not privy to, a more complex

dimension beyond our own that is analogous to the aquarium. And, he

adds, we view objects such as subatomic particles as separate from

one another because we are seeing only a portion of their reality.

sk: How nice! All that is based on " seems to know " and on an

apparent connection, which would have to be faster than light. How

easy to say we are projecting a separateness. Bohm seems to forget

that it is Aspect's experiment which enables him to state the above

mentioned but he forgets too to admit that even his view could only

be a portion of some " reality " . A conceptual extension of an

experimental phenomenon. The problem is that his vision is an

phylosophical extension of a reliable experiment and as reliable as

a faster-than-light theory. At least, at the moment, in my opinion.

S: Such particles are not separate " parts " , but facets of a deeper

and more underlying unity that is ultimately as holographic and

indivisible as the previously mentioned rose.

sk: Nice!

S: And since everything in physical reality is comprised of

these " eidolons " , the universe is itself a projection, a hologram.

In addition to its phantomlike nature, such a universe would possess

other rather startling features. If the apparent separateness of

subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of

reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected.

The electrons in a carbon atom in the human brain are connected to

the subatomic particles that comprise every salmon that swims, every

heart that beats, and every star that shimmers in the sky.

Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature may

seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide, the various

phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity

artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web.

In a holographic universe, even time and space could no longer be

viewed as fundamentals. Because concepts such as location break down

in a universe in which nothing is truly separate from anything else,

time and three-dimensional space, like the images of the fish on the

TV monitors, would also have to be viewed as projections of this

deeper order.

At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the

past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests

that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday

reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out

scenes from the long-forgotten past.

What else the superhologram contains is an open-ended question.

Allowing, for the sake of argument, that the superhologram is the

matrix that has given birth to everything in our universe, at the

very least it contains every subatomic particle that has been or

will be -- every configuration of matter and energy that is

possible, from snowflakes to quasars, from blue whales to gamma

rays.

It must be seen as a sort of cosmic storehouse of " All That Is. "

sk: This sounds someway correct and lucid but has nothing to do with

science. Nice theories, nice stories. Fits good in the " New-age-

culture " . The main point is, it has to sound good. A little of

everything...interconnectness, univerasl interpenetration, virtual

and fragmented realities,parapsychology, medicine, biochemistry, a

little quantum-physics, matrixes, superholograms, quasars and gamma-

rays, topographical personality and ego-determinations, a little

Derrida and Lacan, a big part ancient vedantic, hinduistic,

buddhistic and etc... scriptures, cosmic storehouses, medieval

mystics, flux-theories, a little chemistry and mathematics and so

on...nice to read, a good pastime and I like it, but at the end this

potpourris are relatively meaningless and someone who believes

firmly in that runs the risk to forget to laugh exhaustively every

morning, when he or her wakes up about him-or herself.

Sandeep, too much things to discuss here on your excellent post,

which surely can open minds for wider horizons. I'm a doctor and

have family and my time is sometimes a little restricted. May be a

last comment on that:

Such a turnabout in the way we view biological structures has caused

researchers to point out that medicine and our understanding of the

healing process could also be transformed by the holographic

paradigm. If the apparent physical structure of the body is but a

holographic projection of consciousness, it becomes clear that each

of us is much more responsible for our health than current medical

wisdom allows. What we now view as miraculous remissions of disease

may actually be due to changes in consciousness which in turn effect

changes in the hologram of the body. Similarly, controversial new

healing techniques such as visualization may work so well because in

the holographic domain of thought images are ultimately as real

as " reality " .

sk: Hmmmmmm

a bow to you

skogen

September 13, 2003

Hello Sandeep, Dan, and Friends,

Nice Dance!

~~~

Being 'Being'

The fundamental quality of Being is Consciousness.

Consciousness is the word used to describe Being Conscious,

another word for Conscious is 'Seeing'.

Seeing has two extremes called Concentration and Meditation.

Concentration is a localized focus. This is the kind of focus

that is common in the scientific 'reductionist' approach. This form

of seeing does have merit, yet it can never understand the whole

because its nature is limited to its localization.

All witing, speaking, objectifying (including this

commentary) is Concentration - it is one extremne of Seeing.

Meditation is the other extreme of Seeing. Meditative Seeing

is holostic yet this comment on it is objectifying it and therefore

this description is Concentration, and, the true defination of

Meditation is negated by the instrument that is describing it.

History has given us many devices from koans to holograms to

help us understand Meditative Seeing and if/when they succeed in

providing a clear, sharp picture (experience) of it - the very

success is a failure because this is objectification or Concentrated

Seeing.

Thus it is clear (concentration) that Concentrated focus is a

way of Seeing - And - Concentration negates Meditation.

~~~

Most folks 'see' this and then conclude something like: " I must

relax my concentration and understand meditation " - in a sense this

is true, yet the understanding that one must meditate is again

Concentration.

So - what to do?

The backgroung of all Doing is Being.

Being is already Being Done.

You cannot understanding it because and attempt by 'you' is

Concentration - a localized static lens - AND - Being is living

changing, unfolding.

Seeing Itself is.

Love and Gratitude,

James

Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

<sandeepc@b...> wrote:

> Hi Dan,

> -

> dan330033

> Nisargadatta

> Saturday, September 13, 2003 02:16 AM

> Re: The Universe as a Hologram

>

> Nisargadatta , Sandeep Chatterjee

> <sandeepc@b...> wrote:

> >

> > Dan, for you......

>

> Sandeep, thanks for posting this.

>

> I enjoyed it thoroughly, and indeed,

> although having never seen this before,

> recognized the

> the correspondences to which I believe you're

> alluding.

>

> Nice synchronicity.

>

> It seems quite on target to me, up to a point.

> It is always so, isn't it? :-)

>

> The need to make a point, itself being the limiting point.

>

> That point of limitation, which seems curious

> to me about the writing

> below, is that there seems to remain an interested

> specator experiencing excitement --

> the author still seems interested

> in things like, " what else may be in the storehouse, "

> as if there is something and then something else,

> or " what consciousness will manifest from the hologram "

> " how we can alter the fabric of reality " ...

> things like that.

>

> Yes.

>

> The separation is still taken as a " given " .

>

> Ofcourse the apparently prevailing sense of separation, itself

being the storehouse in frenzy.

>

> If any sense of an objectively existing universe dissolves,

> then with it must go any sense of the subjective

> awareness to which objects seemingly appear.

>

> Moo.

>

> Then, where would be found the first thing that could

> appear from the storehouse, let along other things?

>

> Where would anything at all be manifested by anything,

> including by consciousness?

>

> Moo

>

> Altering the fabric of reality could only be of interest

> to an alterer, who had some kind of interest in

> having things appear -- but we already said there are

> no things appearing, didn't we?

>

> Moo

>

> In other words, there seems to me a subtle hanging on to

> assumptions about experiences really taking place,

> in spite of the " isn't this a remarkable

> discovery, that there is no objective universe " tone

> of the writing.

>

> Yes (tired of mooing)

>

> That is the chasm, where intelligence comes upto and in most

cases, retreats.

>

> That " no thing existing "

> would have to include any

> experience of " this being a remarkable discovery,

> that there is no objective universe " -- which

> experience also would have no where to take place,

> and no existing being to have that experience.

>

> Mooo

>

> Another way to say this, is that with all time occurring

> at once, there is no time in which anything can take

> place, including a realization that nothing has

> taken place.

>

> Wooo.

>

> Harsha, are you getting all these Moos and Woos?

September 13, 2003

Hi Sandeep,

Your enthusiasm for modern science is admirable. Science is wonderful

and useful in a variety of ways..

And like religion, it is the opium for the masses because it has the

promise in its explanations of how things really are which gives some

satisfaction perhaps. That we know how things really are. And I suppose

it's nice to know how things really are. I am glad you know how things

really are. :-). Someone needs to be on top of things.

Ideas on how things really are come and go.

The mind is a concept spinner. Its nature is to spin out concepts and

ideas and models and theories and metaphors endlessly.

That can be seen whether we are speaking of science, religion,

spirituality, truth, reality, or whatever.

Love to all

Harsha

Sandeep Chatterjee wrote:

-----

Original Message -----

Harsha

To:

Nisargadatta

Sent:

Friday, September 12, 2003 10:21 PM

Subject:

Re: Re: The Universe as a Hologram

seesaw1us wrote:

Very

interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy is just

an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality itself. The

problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then too far,

and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the hologram as a

blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at which

vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something physical has to

be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this proves

objective reality doesn't exist.

What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to believe.

Pete

Yes. The eagerness to believe in something, simply

showing up in more subtle ways..

Love to all

Harsha

Ahaa,

good old Harsha.

How

are you doing?

Still

trying to keep crumbling bridges intact?:-)

Pete,

Ofcourse

the hologram is a conceptual model.

And once again that was a collation from very unspiritual

people with whom there has been "some walkings".

Vibration,

Pete,.. does not need something physical to vibrate.

In

fact physicality is a consequence of a particular format or mode of

vibrations.

Draw

two criss-crossing lines on a blank piece of paper.

At

the point of the criss-cross, there is an appearance of a point.

There is

none, but there is an appearance of one.

If

you see a rotating ceiling fan, at a certain frequency of rotation, a

physical circle is seen to be formed.

Similarly, vibrating

energy-patterns (if you are interested have a look at the String

theory), criss-crossing in a far more complex mode and in

multidimensions,...........throws up a fornicating cat on a tin roof

out there and a Harsha out here, ...

....the

Andromeda galaxy and the Aids virus.

An

exploding super-nova and a tiny ant struggling with it's load.

A ruddy enlightened sage, a grinning clown under the BigTop

at a circus.

Now

you may say, isn't there a vibrations of something, maybe it's energy

patterns but at least something, there must be some independent

objective reality.

Since

......"there is no observer outside of what is being observed, and

nothing being observed that is outside of the observer".....

....criss-crossing

vibrating energy patterns,.....is again a concept.

Consciousness is a concept.

The famous right-side Heart of Ramana is a concept.

For there is nothing outside or apart from energy patterns,

to validate the very existence of the energy patterns.

It is in

this sense that there is no objective reality independent of an

observer of it, pointed by the expression....Awareness not aware of itself.

September 13, 2003

-

Hi Harsha,

You're right on target. I have a wonderfully detailed map of

Atlantis. It shows every town, mountains, rivers and all roads.

I also have a very good book on Greek mythology. Every god and godess

is listed. Their family tree, their appearances, powers, sexual

preferences and dealings with human kind are discussed with great

ditail. Thousands of Greek scholars spent their lives dreaming up

those stories. They made a living at it, and gained respect from

the populace. Both today, are just useless curiosities.

But, I think Sandeep knows all that is entertaiment. It's nice to

have a little fun with abstruse concepts. Nothing wrong with it,

unless we take it seriously.

Love,

Pete

-- In Nisargadatta , Harsha wrote:

> Hi Sandeep,

>

> Your enthusiasm for modern science is admirable. Science is

wonderful

> and useful in a variety of ways..

>

> And like religion, it is the opium for the masses because it has

the

> promise in its explanations of how things really are which gives

some

> satisfaction perhaps. That we know how things really are. And I

suppose

> it's nice to know how things really are. I am glad you know how

things

> really are. :-). Someone needs to be on top of things.

>

> Ideas on how things really are come and go.

>

> The mind is a concept spinner. Its nature is to spin out concepts

and

> ideas and models and theories and metaphors endlessly.

>

> That can be seen whether we are speaking of science, religion,

> spirituality, truth, reality, or whatever.

>

> Love to all

> Harsha

>

> Sandeep Chatterjee wrote:

>

> >

> > -

> > Harsha <harsha@c...>

> > Nisargadatta

> > <Nisargadatta >

> > Friday, September 12, 2003 10:21 PM

> > Re: Re: The Universe as a Hologram

> >

> > seesaw1us wrote:

> >

> >> Very interisting Sandeep! But you know, this hologram thingy

is just

> >> an useful metaphore to explain reality and not reality

itself. The

> >> problem with metaphores is that spiritual people take then

too far,

> >> and try to transform an example into an universal truth.

> >>

> >> Take the pragraph above as an example it describes the

hologram as a

> >> blur of frequences. Frequences, in physics is the rate at

which

> >> vibrations occur. For vibrations to occur something

physical has to

> >> be vibrating. And yet the paragraph concludes that this

proves

> >> objective reality doesn't exist.

> >>

> >> What I detect here is not science, but an eagerness to

believe.

> >>

> >> Pete

> >

> > Yes. The eagerness to believe in something, simply showing up

in

> > more subtle ways..

> >

> > Love to all

> > Harsha

> >

> > Ahaa, good old Harsha.

> > How are you doing?

> > Still trying to keep crumbling bridges intact?:-)

> >

> > Pete,

> > Ofcourse the hologram is a conceptual model.

> > And once again that was a collation from very unspiritual

people

> > with whom there has been " some walkings " .

> >

> > Vibration, Pete,.. does not need something physical to

vibrate.

> >

> > In fact physicality is a consequence of a particular format or

> > mode of vibrations.

> >

> > Draw two criss-crossing lines on a blank piece of paper.

> > At the point of the criss-cross, there is an appearance of a

point.

> > There is none, but there is an appearance of one.

> >

> > If you see a rotating ceiling fan, at a certain frequency of

> > rotation, a physical circle is seen to be formed.

> >

> > Similarly, vibrating energy-patterns (if you are interested

have a

> > look at the String theory), criss-crossing in a far more

complex

> > mode and in multidimensions,...........throws up a

fornicating cat

> > on a tin roof out there and a Harsha out here, ...

> >

> > ...the Andromeda galaxy and the Aids virus.

> >

> > An exploding super-nova and a tiny ant struggling with it's

load.

> >

> > A ruddy enlightened sage, a grinning clown under the BigTop

at a

> > circus.

> >

> > Now you may say, isn't there a vibrations of something, maybe

it's

> > energy patterns but at least something, there must be some

> > independent objective reality.

> >

> > Since ..... " there is no observer outside of what is being

> > observed, and nothing being observed that is outside of the

> > observer " .....

> >

> > ...criss-crossing vibrating energy patterns,.....is again a

concept.

> >

> > Consciousness is a concept.

> >

> > The famous right-side Heart of Ramana is a concept.

> >

> > For there is nothing outside or apart from energy patterns, to

> > validate the very existence of the energy patterns.

> >

> > It is in this sense that there is no objective reality

independent

> > of an observer of it, pointed by the expression....Awareness

not

> > aware of itself.

> >

September 13, 2003

>But, I think Sandeep knows

>Love,

>Pete

What cha talkin' about Willis? Sandeep knows no thing.

Shar

---

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release 01/09/2003

September 13, 2003

You are right Pete. It's all in good fun.

Speaking about fun Pete, forget about being 67, run to the airport and take

Freyja up on her offer! Think that the Goddess herself has invited you. Freyja

is quite extraordinary in her intelligence and gifts. Please report on any

adventures you have. Now that would be fun! :-).

Do you need recommendations on special herbs and plants?

Love,

Harsha

> " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us

> 2003/09/13 Sat PM 04:10:18 EDT

> Nisargadatta

> Re: The Universe as a Hologram

Hi Harsha,

You're right on target. I have a wonderfully detailed map of Atlantis. It shows

every town, mountains, rivers and all roads. I also have a very good book on

Greek mythology. Every god and godess is listed. Their family tree, their

appearances, powers, sexual preferences and dealings with human kind are

discussed with great ditail. Thousands of Greek scholars spent their lives

dreaming up those stories. They made a living at it, and gained respect from

the populace. Both today, are just useless curiosities.

But, I think Sandeep knows all that is entertaiment. It's nice to have a little

fun with abstruse concepts. Nothing wrong with it, unless we take it seriously.

Love,

Pete

" Love itself is the actual form of God. "

Ramana Maharshi

September 14, 2003

Nisargadatta , Harsha

wrote:

<snip>

I am glad you know how things

> really are. :-). Someone needs to be on top of things.

LOL

You crack me up, Harsha!

love,

Shawn

September 14, 2003

The UniVerse as a HoloGram

is

The HoloGram as a UniVerse

and

The HoloVerse as a UniGram

or

The UniGram as a HoloVerse

Holo - Gram Uni - Verse

you say eether I say iither

eether iither neether niither

Let's call the whole thing - - - portmanteau

Love and Gratitude,

James

September 14, 2003

Ah, Harsha, where were you when I needed you? Being old, saintly, and

on top of it all, married, ballihooing is not an option. ))

But thanks for the thought,

Pete

Nisargadatta , wrote:

> You are right Pete. It's all in good fun.

>

> Speaking about fun Pete, forget about being 67, run to the airport

and take Freyja up on her offer! Think that the Goddess herself has

invited you. Freyja is quite extraordinary in her intelligence and

gifts. Please report on any adventures you have. Now that would be

fun! :-).

>

> Do you need recommendations on special herbs and plants?

>

> Love,

> Harsha

>

> > " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us>

> > 2003/09/13 Sat PM 04:10:18 EDT

> > Nisargadatta

> > Re: The Universe as a Hologram

>

> Hi Harsha,

>

> You're right on target. I have a wonderfully detailed map of

Atlantis. It shows every town, mountains, rivers and all roads. I

also have a very good book on Greek mythology. Every god and godess

is listed. Their family tree, their appearances, powers, sexual

preferences and dealings with human kind are discussed with great

ditail. Thousands of Greek scholars spent their lives dreaming up

those stories. They made a living at it, and gained respect from

> the populace. Both today, are just useless curiosities.

>

> But, I think Sandeep knows all that is entertaiment. It's nice to

have a little fun with abstruse concepts. Nothing wrong with it,

unless we take it seriously.

>

> Love,

>

> Pete

>

> " Love itself is the actual form of God. "

>

> Ramana Maharshi

September 14, 2003

Hi Harsha,

-

Harsha

Nisargadatta

Saturday, September 13, 2003 10:48 PM

Re: Re: The Universe as a Hologram

Hi Sandeep,Your enthusiasm for modern science is admirable.

Thank you.

Science is wonderful and useful in a variety of ways..

Glad to note you find it so.

And like religion, it is the opium for the masses because it has the promise in its explanations of how things really are which gives some satisfaction perhaps.

Sure.

And as much opium-ated as say Ramana and Nisargadutta's stuff,.. eh? :-)

That we know how things really are. And I suppose it's nice to know how things really are. I am glad you know how things really are. :-). Someone needs to be on top of things.

Yes.

Don't worry the slot's been filled.<LOL>

Ideas on how things really are come and go. The mind is a concept spinner. Its nature is to spin out concepts and ideas and models and theories and metaphors endlessly.

Moo.

One such spinning being the famous right-side heart, eh Harsha?

That can be seen whether we are speaking of science, religion, spirituality, truth, reality, or whatever.

Sure.

Since you have commented so, ......curious you found something to the contrary in the previous posts?

The rumblings in the field of Science, show a curve of convergence,.........that's all that is being pointed in these posts, in case you missed it.

The Universe as a Hologram

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