Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Inquiry about Fate and Free Will is important but there should be no compromises. It should be taken to the limit (within one's own mind). What does it mean? It is the intensity of the inquiry that is needed not the evaluation of "truth" or "falsity" of the doctrine of predetermination (or free will). You can rest assured that from the perspective of the Self, both doctrines, "free will" and "predetermination", are equally unreal and have no standing what so ever! People have pointed out that Ramesh Baleskar states that everything is predetermined. So what? On an issue of this subtle nature, relying on authority is not the best strategy, especially if the goal is that of Self Knowledge. It seems to me that what Baleskar or anyone else says on the matter is quite irrelevant. What do you say? That is important. The actual inquiry on this matter, in order to be fruitful, must take place in one's own consciousness with focus and intensity. Sri Ramana once indicated to a devotee that all was predetermined. At other times the Sage pointed out that reading of scriptures and spiritual practice are premised on Free Will. Both statements have their uses in particular times and places. A devotee may find either philosophy useful. The inquiry about "Fate" and "Free Will" is a device only to open up within to the Self- Knowledge, the Heart, that is untouched by either fate or free will. The constructs of "fate" and "free will" depend on each for meaning and can have no independent existence. It is only minor teachers who are obsessed with "Fate" and the "deterministic" nature of the world who attempt to maintain consistency in their responses. A true master is not interested in logic or consistency for their own sake. S/He has no investment in "free will" or "determinism." These are mere tools that maybe useful for inquiry. Once the inquiry into the nature of consciousness starts, that itself becomes the tool. The main thing is consciousness, not the constructs that have consciousness as their source. If you follow the constructs outwards, you see the world and are bound. If you follow the constructs inwards through inquiry, you see that You Yourself Are the Consciousness untouched by fate or free will. Love to all Harsha /join Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 it is very simple to take the truths that vedanta has to offer the aspiring 'nobody' and use them to suit the comfort zones that do not want to be rattled awake at all... i.e. ""Who is the pain happening to" and so on and so fourth. pain is real. escape routes are everywhere- ESPECIALLY in schools of non-school, non-teaching, non-dualism. the core of vedanta, of tantra.... the crazy wisdom theirin, from here, requires the spaceousness alone, come what may to be burned. it has been both refreshing and sad to see the way that these schools of just being cut thru the facades..... and perpetuate them. t'will be good to see more dissapearing acts and the fruits of the sky laid out on the computer for this one. thanks and keep it real.Harsha wrote: Inquiry about Fate and Free Will is important but there should be no compromises. It should be taken to the limit (within one's own mind). What does it mean? It is the intensity of the inquiry that is needed not the evaluation of "truth" or "falsity" of the doctrine of predetermination (or free will). You can rest assured that from the perspective of the Self, both doctrines, "free will" and "predetermination", are equally unreal and have no standing what so ever! People have pointed out that Ramesh Baleskar states that everything is predetermined. So what? On an issue of this subtle nature, relying on authority is not the best strategy, especially if the goal is that of Self Knowledge.It seems to me that what Baleskar or anyone else says on the matter is quite irrelevant. What do you say? That is important.The actual inquiry on this matter, in order to be fruitful, must take place in one's own consciousness with focus and intensity. Sri Ramana once indicated to a devotee that all was predetermined. At other times the Sage pointed out that reading of scriptures and spiritual practice are premised on Free Will. Both statements have their uses in particular times and places. A devotee may find either philosophy useful.The inquiry about "Fate" and "Free Will" is a device only to open up within to the Self- Knowledge, the Heart, that is untouched by either fate or free will. The constructs of "fate" and "free will" depend on each for meaning and can have no independent existence.It is only minor teachers who are obsessed with "Fate" and the "deterministic" nature of the world who attempt to maintain consistency in their responses. A true master is not interested in logic or consistency for their own sake. S/He has no investment in "free will" or "determinism." These are mere tools that maybe useful for inquiry. Once the inquiry into the nature of consciousness starts, that itself becomes the tool. The main thing is consciousness, not the constructs that have consciousness as their source. If you follow the constructs outwards, you see the world and are bound. If you follow the constructs inwards through inquiry, you see that You Yourself Are the Consciousness untouched by fate or free will. Love to allHarsha/join Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 What more need be said? Thanks: John--- In Nisargadatta , Harsha wrote: > Inquiry about Fate and Free Will is important but there should be no > compromises. It should be taken to the limit (within one's own mind). > What does it mean? It is the intensity of the inquiry that is needed not > the evaluation of " truth " or " falsity " of the doctrine of > predetermination (or free will). > > You can rest assured that from the perspective of the Self, both > doctrines, " free will " and " predetermination " , are equally unreal and > have no standing what so ever! > > People have pointed out that Ramesh Baleskar states that everything is > predetermined. So what? On an issue of this subtle nature, relying on > authority is not the best strategy, especially if the goal is that of > Self Knowledge. > > It seems to me that what Baleskar or anyone else says on the matter is > quite irrelevant. What do you say? That is important. > > The actual inquiry on this matter, in order to be fruitful, must take > place in one's own consciousness with focus and intensity. > > Sri Ramana once indicated to a devotee that all was predetermined. At > other times the Sage pointed out that reading of scriptures and > spiritual practice are premised on Free Will. Both statements have their > uses in particular times and places. A devotee may find either > philosophy useful. > > The inquiry about " Fate " and " Free Will " is a device only to open up > within to the Self- Knowledge, the Heart, that is untouched by either > fate or free will. The constructs of " fate " and " free will " depend on > each for meaning and can have no independent existence. > > It is only minor teachers who are obsessed with " Fate " and the > " deterministic " nature of the world who attempt to maintain consistency > in their responses. > > A true master is not interested in logic or consistency for their own > sake. S/He has no investment in " free will " or " determinism. " These are > mere tools that maybe useful for inquiry. Once the inquiry into the > nature of consciousness starts, that itself becomes the tool. > > The main thing is consciousness, not the constructs that have > consciousness as their source. If you follow the constructs outwards, > you see the world and are bound. If you follow the constructs inwards > through inquiry, you see that You Yourself Are the Consciousness > untouched by fate or free will. > > Love to all > Harsha > > > /join > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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