Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 - memory has to be no more than an object of speech where we retrieve and it is also the action of retrieving - memory has to be static and dead because it mustn't be a world alive by itself; imagine you would wake up with evolved memory of the day before (and i am not talking about neurotic distortions of memory here that are always predictible; thus the possibility to awaken) - memory has to happen without awareness and mnemonics are a denial of memory, any tricks, any coercion to remember hindr the natural course of imprinting every single experience - there is a vast place where all memories are stored for all the beings but this place is undifferentiated, thus useless for an individual mind and that is why we keep some readily in our brains (yet one day one of us should go and check if the future is stored as well :-)) - there is no separation in functionality between memorizing and using memory for speech, in fact speech is an articulation of memory, or memory unfolding as in the thought process, but this unfolding is the same movement as memorizing even though them seem to cross each other in the nervous channels (optical illusion) (ok a coffee break) (just joking i'll stop here) eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Nisargadatta , " eric paroissien " <vertvetiver> wrote: > - memory has to be no more than an object of speech where we retrieve > and it is also the action of retrieving > - memory has to be static and dead because it mustn't be a world > alive by itself; Hi Eric, Why static and dead? What is alive? Is the sound of a bird song dead too? Or is that alive in the present because it's not thought/memory? If the arising of a memory is dead, than I wonder if anything is " alive " ? imagine you would wake up with evolved memory of the > day before (and i am not talking about neurotic distortions of memory > here that are always predictible; thus the possibility to awaken) If there is a distortion of memory, then there must be some real, objective world which memory refers to -- in order to say that memory is correct/incorrect. Just some comments. Joe > - memory has to happen without awareness and mnemonics are a denial > of memory, any tricks, any coercion to remember hindr the natural > course of imprinting every single experience > - there is a vast place where all memories are stored for all the > beings but this place is undifferentiated, thus useless for an > individual mind and that is why we keep some readily in our brains > (yet one day one of us should go and check if the future is stored as > well :-)) > - there is no separation in functionality between memorizing and > using memory for speech, in fact speech is an articulation of memory, > or memory unfolding as in the thought process, but this unfolding is > the same movement as memorizing even though them seem to cross each > other in the nervous channels (optical illusion) > (ok a coffee break) > (just joking i'll stop here) > eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " eric paroissien " > <vertvetiver> wrote: > > - memory has to be no more than an object of speech where we > retrieve > > and it is also the action of retrieving > > - memory has to be static and dead because it mustn't be a world > > alive by itself; > > > Hi Eric, > hi Joe, > Why static and dead? What is alive? Is the sound of a bird song dead > too? Or is that alive in the present because it's not thought/memory? > If the arising of a memory is dead, than I wonder if anything > is " alive " ? > > first, i take no responsibility for anything i say here because it is only specualtion and my seeing of " what is " is quite filtered, sometimes clearer sometimes muddier; dan on the other hand speaks without a doubt and i just want you to acknowledge the difference i sense between something i say and something he says :-) so memory is leftovers from reality, digested to be articulated, but " reality " (what a silly word) is not organized; there is a whole attempt of control under the name of memory, something to have us forget that we are played by destiny.. > imagine you would wake up with evolved memory of the > > day before (and i am not talking about neurotic distortions of > memory > > here that are always predictible; thus the possibility to awaken) > > If there is a distortion of memory, then there must be some real, > objective world which memory refers to -- in order to say that memory > is correct/incorrect. you are right, i am not sure anymore > > > Just some comments. appreciated anytime > > Joe eric > > > > > - memory has to happen without awareness and mnemonics are a denial > > of memory, any tricks, any coercion to remember hindr the natural > > course of imprinting every single experience > > - there is a vast place where all memories are stored for all the > > beings but this place is undifferentiated, thus useless for an > > individual mind and that is why we keep some readily in our brains > > (yet one day one of us should go and check if the future is stored > as > > well :-)) > > - there is no separation in functionality between memorizing and > > using memory for speech, in fact speech is an articulation of > memory, > > or memory unfolding as in the thought process, but this unfolding > is > > the same movement as memorizing even though them seem to cross each > > other in the nervous channels (optical illusion) > > (ok a coffee break) > > (just joking i'll stop here) > > eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Nisargadatta , " eric paroissien " <vertvetiver> wrote: > > hi Joe, > > > Why static and dead? What is alive? Is the sound of a bird song > dead > > too? Or is that alive in the present because it's not > thought/memory? > > If the arising of a memory is dead, than I wonder if anything > > is " alive " ? > > > > > > first, i take no responsibility for anything i say here because it is > only specualtion and my seeing of " what is " is quite filtered, > sometimes clearer sometimes muddier; dan on the other hand speaks > without a doubt and i just want you to acknowledge the difference i > sense between something i say and something he says :-) > so memory is leftovers from reality, digested to be articulated, > but " reality " (what a silly word) is not organized; there is a whole > attempt of control under the name of memory, something to have us > forget that we are played by destiny.. These forums are great places to " try out " your new ideas, which usually undermines them if you have directly " seen " what you are saying. But take full responsibility! No sliding away that easy. :-) Memory as leftovers... you're still assuming a reality separate from memory and that it is somehow superior to memory... Just some thoughts, I'm not saying either way. I wouldn't know " reality " if it bit me in the ass! In fact, it does every second! :-) (Stop that!) Sometimes as memories floating around. And if we remember we are played by destiny, that is still control. You cannot get out of trying to control, trying to gain advantage for yourself -- it's impossible. Every movement you make is a " stance " of some sort -- and " being played by destiny " is just another stance you are (trying) maintaining. I have yet to find anything that " Joe " has done that is not some kind of stance, facade, or way to gain control. Still looking... :-) Take care, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " eric paroissien " > <vertvetiver> wrote: > > > > hi Joe, > > > > > Why static and dead? What is alive? Is the sound of a bird song > > dead > > > too? Or is that alive in the present because it's not > > thought/memory? > > > If the arising of a memory is dead, than I wonder if anything > > > is " alive " ? > > > > > > > > > > first, i take no responsibility for anything i say here because it > is > > only specualtion and my seeing of " what is " is quite filtered, > > sometimes clearer sometimes muddier; dan on the other hand speaks > > without a doubt and i just want you to acknowledge the difference i > > sense between something i say and something he says :-) > > so memory is leftovers from reality, digested to be articulated, > > but " reality " (what a silly word) is not organized; there is a > whole > > attempt of control under the name of memory, something to have us > > forget that we are played by destiny.. > > > These forums are great places to " try out " your new ideas, which > usually undermines them if you have directly " seen " what you are > saying. But take full responsibility! No sliding away that easy. :- ) > > Memory as leftovers... you're still assuming a reality separate from > memory and that it is somehow superior to memory... > > Just some thoughts, I'm not saying either way. I wouldn't > know " reality " if it bit me in the ass! In fact, it does every > second! :-) (Stop that!) Sometimes as memories floating around. > > And if we remember we are played by destiny, that is still control. > You cannot get out of trying to control, trying to gain advantage for > yourself -- it's impossible. Every movement you make is a " stance " of > some sort -- and " being played by destiny " is just another stance you > are (trying) maintaining. > > I have yet to find anything that " Joe " has done that is not some kind > of stance, facade, or way to gain control. Still looking... :-) > > Take care, > Joe i swear to you Joe :-) and i swear on what i have most precious,... my vanity, ... that all happening here is only a play that we have no control on, no facade, i swear, no stance... and the gist of my previous message is: Dan has no doubt why don't you ask him? ;-> (devilish) eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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