Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Greetings All, I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and their fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also told to view thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the street? Does fulfilling them help to eradicate them? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Nisargadatta , " yacobyisrael " <yacobyisrael> wrote: > Greetings All, > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and their > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also told to view > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the street? Does > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > Steve Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone else's recipe book for how you should deal with emotions. And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search for certainty and security, than from the heart and desire. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Nisargadatta , " yacobyisrael " <yacobyisrael> wrote: > Greetings All, > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and their > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also told to view > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the street? Does > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > Steve Any words that come from a sage apply only to the moment. When they are transcribed..translated..and then an attempt is made to re-apply them...in an overall context....much confusion results. Nisargadstta told many different people many different things. Some of which contradict themselves..... That which you for searching....is not in a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " yacobyisrael " > <yacobyisrael> wrote: > > Greetings All, > > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. > > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and > > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and > their > > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also told to > view > > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the street? Does > > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > > > Steve > > Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing > conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. > > But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone > else's recipe book for how you should deal with emotions. > > And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search > for certainty and security, than from the heart and > desire. > > -- Dan Good point, Dan. No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. Looking to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into the realm of concept and thought. Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing realm -- " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how should I experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, right now. Not having confidence in some dude's words or believing that some concepts will help you or save you. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 > Good point, Dan. > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. Looking > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into the > realm of concept and thought. > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing realm -- > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how should I > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, right now. > Not having confidence in some dude's words or believing that some > concepts will help you or save you. > > Joe Right on, Joe. You said it well: second-hand, just won't do. And first-hand is nonmediated, noninterpreted, nonreferenced, nonspeculative. What it is, is just this, as is. If you're taking time to think about it and form a strategy for approach, even one millisecond sets you off a mile, puts you in the universe of self separate from other. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > Good point, Dan. > > > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. > Looking > > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into the > > realm of concept and thought. > > > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing realm - - > > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how should I > > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > > > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, right > now. > > Not having confidence in some dude's words or believing that some > > concepts will help you or save you. > > > > Joe > > Right on, Joe. > > You said it well: second-hand, just won't do. > > And first-hand is nonmediated, noninterpreted, > nonreferenced, nonspeculative. > > What it is, is just this, as is. > > If you're taking time to think about it and form > a strategy for approach, even one millisecond > sets you off a mile, puts you in the universe > of self separate from other. > -- Dan Yes, it's this strategy aspect or approaching 'this' with some kind of tool in hand -- " Like, OK, I'm going to get you know, I'm going to figure this out... let's see, what did Niz say?... Oh yeah, I need to do this... " But then, what we are saying here is not true either. It assumes that one can be taken away, that there is such a thing as 'second-hand' experience. But that ruckus of the mind trying to figure things out is just what is. So, no separation is ever possible. Either the dust is swirling or it's settled. Doesn't matter too much either way. :-) Dusting out the cupboards, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 > > > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > > > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > > > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. > > > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and > > > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and > > their > > > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . denial just amplifies them ad they can go into transcended to appeal as something else into the inner lanes and take one to lala land I see this with sex-drive masked and manifested as guru-stance etc > > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also told to > > view > > > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the street? Does > > > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > > > > > Steve > > > > Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing > > conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. > > > > But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone > > else's recipe book for how you should deal with emotions. > > > > And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search > > for certainty and security, than from the heart and > > desire. > > > > -- Dan > > Good point, Dan. > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. Looking > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into the > realm of concept and thought. > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing realm -- > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how should I > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > second-hand indeed > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, the other derailing is the 'going for 'it' factor I am following this point mentioned at the advatin club by Greg and at your zen club too, Joe it is a crucial point imo as I know that as Greg point to the on his page one requirement is to have a burning desire for liberation I say and see online and everywhere that at this point many go astray you have to want liberation to wake up, or get enlightened but YOU CAN NOT! GO FOR IT the minute 'you' do that it goes to build the small-self-ego: the android what is amply demonstrated with the glow-heads and other self-proclaimed deluded gurus and teachers online It is all on a razors edge and all razors have 2 sides and most fall on the side of the android o the mind and mind is the Lucifer the apple we should not have to derail us to test us and to keep the gate toward god clean the right view the right aim the right ethics because STRAIGHT is the way and NARROW the gate what leads to Light [life] from Greg's; Shankara's Qualification List Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA (Knowledge of Reality/Truth) actually lists four qualifications for the study into the truth of one's nature. Basically, Shankara is recommending a well-balanced approach to inquiring into Truth. 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the eternal and the timebound. 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the enjoyment of the fruits of one's actions. 3. The Six Accomplishments -- Control of the mind and emotions Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior Responsibility, ability to do one's duty 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs of opposites such as heat and cold, pleasant and unpleasant 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings Ability to focus on a single object of mind **6. The burning desire for liberation http://www.nonduality.com/goode2.htm Era > right now. > Not having confidence in some dude's words or believing that some > concepts will help you or save you. > > Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 > > > Good point, Dan. > > > > > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. > > Looking > > > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into the > > > realm of concept and thought. > > > > > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing realm - > - > > > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how should > I > > > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > > > > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > > > > > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, right > > now. > > > Not having confidence in some dude's words or believing that some > > > concepts will help you or save you. > > > > > > Joe > > > > Right on, Joe. > > > > You said it well: second-hand, just won't do. > > > > And first-hand is nonmediated, noninterpreted, > > nonreferenced, nonspeculative. > > > > What it is, is just this, as is. > > > > If you're taking time to think about it and form > > a strategy for approach, even one millisecond > > sets you off a mile, puts you in the universe > > of self separate from other. > > -- Dan > > Yes, it's this strategy aspect or approaching 'this' with some kind > of tool in hand -- " Like, OK, I'm going to get you know, I'm going to > figure this out... let's see, what did Niz say?... Oh yeah, I need to > do this... " > > But then, what we are saying here is not true either. > > It assumes that one can be taken away, that there is such a thing > as 'second-hand' experience. But that ruckus of the mind trying to > figure things out is just what is. So, no separation is ever > possible. > > Either the dust is swirling or it's settled. Doesn't matter too much > either way. :-) > > Dusting out the cupboards, > Joe yes, but this takes right back to: " how does one settle the dust " and back to the merry-go-around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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