Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > > > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > > > > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > > > > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. > > > > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and > > > > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and > > > their > > > > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > > denial just amplifies them > Steve > ad they can go into transcended to appeal > as something else into the inner lanes > and take one to lala land > > I see this with sex-drive masked and > manifested as guru-stance etc > tell me did you understand my point? or you want me to elaborate? > > > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also told to > > > view > > > > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the street? Does > > > > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing > > > conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. > > > > > > But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone > > > else's recipe book for how you should deal with emotions. > > > > > > And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search > > > for certainty and security, than from the heart and > > > desire. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > Good point, Dan. > > > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. Looking > > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into the > > realm of concept and thought. > > > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing realm -- > > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how should I > > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > > > > second-hand indeed > > > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, > > > the other derailing is the 'going > for 'it' factor > > > I am following this point mentioned > at the advatin club by Greg and at > your zen club too, Joe > > it is a crucial point imo > > as I know that as Greg point to the on > his page one requirement is to have a > burning desire for liberation > > I say and see online and everywhere > that at this point many go astray > > you have to want liberation to wake up, > or get enlightened but > > YOU CAN NOT! GO FOR IT > > the minute 'you' do that it goes to > build the small-self-ego: the android > what is amply demonstrated with the glow-heads and other self-proclaimed > deluded gurus and teachers online > > It is all on a razors edge and all > razors have 2 sides and most fall > on the side of the android o the mind > > and mind is the Lucifer the apple > we should not have > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > gate toward god clean > > the right view the right aim the right > ethics > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > NARROW the gate what leads to Light > [life] > > from Greg's; > > Shankara's Qualification List > Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA (Knowledge of Reality/Truth) actually lists four qualifications for the study into the truth of one's nature. Basically, Shankara is recommending a well-balanced approach to inquiring into Truth. > > > 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the eternal and the timebound. > > 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the enjoyment of the fruits of one's actions. > > 3. The Six Accomplishments -- > Control of the mind and emotions > Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior Responsibility, ability to do > one's duty > > 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs > of opposites such as heat and cold, > pleasant and unpleasant > > 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings > Ability to focus on a single object of mind > > **6. The burning desire for liberation > > http://www.nonduality.com/goode2.htm > > Era > > > > > right now. > > Not having confidence in some dude's > words or believing that some > > concepts will help you or save you. > > > > Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Era, I take what you are saying as deep rooted desires that go unfulfilled may snowball into something else which takes you further away from realization? Please eloborate more though. To be honest, reading all of the posts and the idea that any teaching is second hand, leaves me in quite a " bewildered state " . I have verified that, yes, my mind trying to find a solution is like " pulling myself up with my own boot straps " as Sandeep has said. But still the idea that I can learn " the way " still lingers in my head, even though " memories " of things I have read on this list say there is nothing to do or learn. Nothing to " get " . A very puzzling state. I am trying to digest Pete's advice and enjoy myself in this state... whoever the hell I am. Steve Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > > > > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > > > > > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > > > > > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. > > > > > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and > > > > > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and > > > > their > > > > > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > > > > > denial just amplifies them > > > > > Steve > > > > > ad they can go into transcended to appeal > > as something else into the inner lanes > > and take one to lala land > > > > I see this with sex-drive masked and > > manifested as guru-stance etc > > > > > > tell me did you understand my point? > > or you want me to elaborate? > > > > > > > > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also told to > > > > view > > > > > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the street? Does > > > > > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing > > > > conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. > > > > > > > > But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone > > > > else's recipe book for how you should deal with emotions. > > > > > > > > And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search > > > > for certainty and security, than from the heart and > > > > desire. > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > Good point, Dan. > > > > > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. Looking > > > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into the > > > realm of concept and thought. > > > > > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing realm -- > > > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how should I > > > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > > > > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > > > > > > > second-hand indeed > > > > > > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, > > > > > > the other derailing is the 'going > > for 'it' factor > > > > > > I am following this point mentioned > > at the advatin club by Greg and at > > your zen club too, Joe > > > > it is a crucial point imo > > > > as I know that as Greg point to the on > > his page one requirement is to have a > > burning desire for liberation > > > > I say and see online and everywhere > > that at this point many go astray > > > > you have to want liberation to wake up, > > or get enlightened but > > > > YOU CAN NOT! GO FOR IT > > > > the minute 'you' do that it goes to > > build the small-self-ego: the android > > what is amply demonstrated with the glow-heads and other self- proclaimed > > deluded gurus and teachers online > > > > It is all on a razors edge and all > > razors have 2 sides and most fall > > on the side of the android o the mind > > > > and mind is the Lucifer the apple > > we should not have > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > gate toward god clean > > > > the right view the right aim the right > > ethics > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > NARROW the gate what leads to Light > > [life] > > > > from Greg's; > > > > Shankara's Qualification List > > Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA (Knowledge of Reality/Truth) actually lists four qualifications for the study into the truth of one's nature. Basically, Shankara is recommending a well-balanced approach to inquiring into Truth. > > > > > > 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the eternal and the timebound. > > > > 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the enjoyment of the fruits of one's actions. > > > > 3. The Six Accomplishments -- > > Control of the mind and emotions > > Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior Responsibility, ability to do > > one's duty > > > > 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs > > of opposites such as heat and cold, > > pleasant and unpleasant > > > > 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings > > Ability to focus on a single object of mind > > > > **6. The burning desire for liberation > > > > http://www.nonduality.com/goode2.htm > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > right now. > > > Not having confidence in some dude's > > words or believing that some > > > concepts will help you or save you. > > > > > > Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Nisargadatta , " yacobyisrael " <yacobyisrael> wrote: > Era, > I take what you are saying as deep rooted desires that go > unfulfilled may snowball into something else which takes you further > away from realization? Please eloborate more though. To be honest, > reading all of the posts and the idea that any teaching is second > hand, leaves me in quite a " bewildered state " . I have verified > that, yes, my mind trying to find a solution is like " pulling myself > up with my own boot straps " as Sandeep has said. But still the idea > that I can learn " the way " still lingers in my head, even > though " memories " of things I have read on this list say there is > nothing to do or learn. Nothing to " get " . A very puzzling state. I > am trying to digest Pete's advice and enjoy myself in this state... > whoever the hell I am. > > Steve Until you clearly see the state of division 'you' are trying to get out of, was created by thought, and you can't get out of it by thinking, you will continue pilling thought on top of thought, and adding 'knowledge.' You can't wash blood with blood. Buy yourself a beach chair, recline, watch the clouds. They will show 'you' how to be. No where to go, nothing to do, just floating in the endless blue. Aaah, Pete > > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > > > > > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > > > > > > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > > > > > > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding > of. > > > > > > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection > and > > > > > > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled > and > > > > > their > > > > > > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > > > > > > > > denial just amplifies them > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > ad they can go into transcended to appeal > > > as something else into the inner lanes > > > and take one to lala land > > > > > > I see this with sex-drive masked and > > > manifested as guru-stance etc > > > > > > > > > > > tell me did you understand my point? > > > > or you want me to elaborate? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also > told to > > > > > view > > > > > > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the > street? Does > > > > > > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing > > > > > conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. > > > > > > > > > > But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone > > > > > else's recipe book for how you should deal with emotions. > > > > > > > > > > And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search > > > > > for certainty and security, than from the heart and > > > > > desire. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > Good point, Dan. > > > > > > > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. > Looking > > > > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into > the > > > > realm of concept and thought. > > > > > > > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing > realm -- > > > > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how > should I > > > > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > > > > > > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > > > > > > > > > > second-hand indeed > > > > > > > > > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, > > > > > > > > > the other derailing is the 'going > > > for 'it' factor > > > > > > > > > I am following this point mentioned > > > at the advatin club by Greg and at > > > your zen club too, Joe > > > > > > it is a crucial point imo > > > > > > as I know that as Greg point to the on > > > his page one requirement is to have a > > > burning desire for liberation > > > > > > I say and see online and everywhere > > > that at this point many go astray > > > > > > you have to want liberation to wake up, > > > or get enlightened but > > > > > > YOU CAN NOT! GO FOR IT > > > > > > the minute 'you' do that it goes to > > > build the small-self-ego: the android > > > what is amply demonstrated with the glow-heads and other self- > proclaimed > > > deluded gurus and teachers online > > > > > > It is all on a razors edge and all > > > razors have 2 sides and most fall > > > on the side of the android o the mind > > > > > > and mind is the Lucifer the apple > > > we should not have > > > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > > gate toward god clean > > > > > > the right view the right aim the right > > > ethics > > > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > > NARROW the gate what leads to Light > > > [life] > > > > > > from Greg's; > > > > > > Shankara's Qualification List > > > Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA > (Knowledge of Reality/Truth) actually lists four qualifications for > the study into the truth of one's nature. Basically, Shankara is > recommending a well-balanced approach to inquiring into Truth. > > > > > > > > > 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the > eternal and the timebound. > > > > > > 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the enjoyment of the fruits of > one's actions. > > > > > > 3. The Six Accomplishments -- > > > Control of the mind and emotions > > > Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior > Responsibility, ability to do > > > one's duty > > > > > > 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs > > > of opposites such as heat and cold, > > > pleasant and unpleasant > > > > > > 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings > > > Ability to focus on a single object of mind > > > > > > **6. The burning desire for liberation > > > > > > http://www.nonduality.com/goode2.htm > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > > > > right now. > > > > Not having confidence in some dude's > > > words or believing that some > > > > concepts will help you or save you. > > > > > > > > Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 .. ....the idea that I (a person) can learn " the way " still lingers in my head. yacobyisrael --------------------------- Until you clearly see the state of division 'you' are trying to get out of, was created by thought, and you can't get out of it by thinking, you will continue pilling thought on top of thought, and adding 'knowledge.' You can't wash blood with blood. Buy yourself a beach chair, recline, watch the clouds. They will show 'you' how to be. No where to go, nothing to do, just floating in the endless blue. Aaah, Pete - Or do Buddha's 8 fold path, if you feel you need something structured to do. The odds are you won't damage as many brain cells as just squirrelling around in your head. ....the lesser degree of 2 evils. As long as you consider yourself a person in a world of persons.... that is just the way it goes... .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Pete, Timely advice once again! I am in route to Florida this weekend where I will do exactly as you suggested (with the addition of a gin and tonic!!) Cheers, Steve Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " yacobyisrael " > <yacobyisrael> wrote: > > Era, > > I take what you are saying as deep rooted desires that go > > unfulfilled may snowball into something else which takes you > further > > away from realization? Please eloborate more though. To be honest, > > reading all of the posts and the idea that any teaching is second > > hand, leaves me in quite a " bewildered state " . I have verified > > that, yes, my mind trying to find a solution is like " pulling > myself > > up with my own boot straps " as Sandeep has said. But still the > idea > > that I can learn " the way " still lingers in my head, even > > though " memories " of things I have read on this list say there is > > nothing to do or learn. Nothing to " get " . A very puzzling state. I > > am trying to digest Pete's advice and enjoy myself in this state... > > whoever the hell I am. > > > > Steve > > Until you clearly see the state of division 'you' are trying to get > out of, was created by thought, and you can't get out of it by > thinking, you will continue pilling thought on top of thought, and > adding 'knowledge.' You can't wash blood with blood. Buy yourself > a beach chair, recline, watch the clouds. They will show 'you' how to > be. No where to go, nothing to do, just floating in the endless blue. > Aaah, > > Pete > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > > > > > > > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > > > > > > > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made > by > > > > > > > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding > > of. > > > > > > > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection > > and > > > > > > > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be > fulfilled > > and > > > > > > their > > > > > > > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > > > > > > > > > > > denial just amplifies them > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > ad they can go into transcended to appeal > > > > as something else into the inner lanes > > > > and take one to lala land > > > > > > > > I see this with sex-drive masked and > > > > manifested as guru-stance etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me did you understand my point? > > > > > > or you want me to elaborate? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am also > > told to > > > > > > view > > > > > > > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the > > street? Does > > > > > > > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing > > > > > > conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. > > > > > > > > > > > > But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone > > > > > > else's recipe book for how you should deal with emotions. > > > > > > > > > > > > And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search > > > > > > for certainty and security, than from the heart and > > > > > > desire. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > Good point, Dan. > > > > > > > > > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right now. > > Looking > > > > > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you into > > the > > > > > realm of concept and thought. > > > > > > > > > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing > > realm -- > > > > > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how > > should I > > > > > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > > > > > > > > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > second-hand indeed > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, > > > > > > > > > > > > the other derailing is the 'going > > > > for 'it' factor > > > > > > > > > > > > I am following this point mentioned > > > > at the advatin club by Greg and at > > > > your zen club too, Joe > > > > > > > > it is a crucial point imo > > > > > > > > as I know that as Greg point to the on > > > > his page one requirement is to have a > > > > burning desire for liberation > > > > > > > > I say and see online and everywhere > > > > that at this point many go astray > > > > > > > > you have to want liberation to wake up, > > > > or get enlightened but > > > > > > > > YOU CAN NOT! GO FOR IT > > > > > > > > the minute 'you' do that it goes to > > > > build the small-self-ego: the android > > > > what is amply demonstrated with the glow-heads and other self- > > proclaimed > > > > deluded gurus and teachers online > > > > > > > > It is all on a razors edge and all > > > > razors have 2 sides and most fall > > > > on the side of the android o the mind > > > > > > > > and mind is the Lucifer the apple > > > > we should not have > > > > > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > > > gate toward god clean > > > > > > > > the right view the right aim the right > > > > ethics > > > > > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > > > NARROW the gate what leads to Light > > > > [life] > > > > > > > > from Greg's; > > > > > > > > Shankara's Qualification List > > > > Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA > > (Knowledge of Reality/Truth) actually lists four qualifications for > > the study into the truth of one's nature. Basically, Shankara is > > recommending a well-balanced approach to inquiring into Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the > > eternal and the timebound. > > > > > > > > 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the enjoyment of the fruits of > > one's actions. > > > > > > > > 3. The Six Accomplishments -- > > > > Control of the mind and emotions > > > > Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior > > Responsibility, ability to do > > > > one's duty > > > > > > > > 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs > > > > of opposites such as heat and cold, > > > > pleasant and unpleasant > > > > > > > > 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings > > > > Ability to focus on a single object of mind > > > > > > > > **6. The burning desire for liberation > > > > > > > > http://www.nonduality.com/goode2.htm > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > right now. > > > > > Not having confidence in some dude's > > > > words or believing that some > > > > > concepts will help you or save you. > > > > > > > > > > Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 and " I AM " is not a respecter of persons. Just when " I " decided to " let go " of the bible... " now " the old made new again... ;-) Steve Nisargadatta , " Elizabeth Wells " <el_wells_2004> wrote: > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...the idea that I (a person) can learn " the way " > still lingers in my head. > yacobyisrael > > --------------------------- > > > Until you clearly see the state of division 'you' are trying to get > out of, was created by thought, and you can't get out of it by > thinking, you will continue pilling thought on top of thought, and > adding 'knowledge.' You can't wash blood with blood. Buy > yourself > a beach chair, recline, watch the clouds. They will show 'you' how > to > be. No where to go, nothing to do, just floating in the endless > blue. > Aaah, > > Pete > > - > > > Or do Buddha's 8 fold path, if you feel you > need something structured to do. > > The odds are you won't damage as many > brain cells as just squirrelling around in > your head. > > ...the lesser degree of 2 evils. > > > > > As long as you consider yourself > a person in a world of persons.... > that is just the way it goes... > > > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...the idea that I (a person) can learn " the way " > still lingers in my head. > yacobyisrael > > --------------------------- > > > Until you clearly see the state of division 'you' are trying to get > out of, was created by thought, and you can't get out of it by > thinking, you will continue pilling thought on top of thought, and > adding 'knowledge.' You can't wash blood with blood. Buy > yourself > a beach chair, recline, watch the clouds. They will show 'you' how > to > be. No where to go, nothing to do, just floating in the endless > blue. > Aaah, > > Pete > > - > > > Or do Buddha's 8 fold path, if you feel you > need something structured to do. > > The odds are you won't damage as many > brain cells as just squirrelling around in > your head. > > ...the lesser degree of 2 evils. > > > > > As long as you consider yourself > a person in a world of persons.... > that is just the way it goes... > > > ---- ....and " I AM " is not a respecter of persons. Just when " I " decided to " let go " of the bible... " now " the old made new again... ;-) Steve ----- " I AM " aka aloof detached fearless " WITNESS-ING " of beach dance as beach dance. In it ------- as the play of Steves and Els, not of it --------as " WITNESS-ING " . .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 " yacobyisrael " <yacobyisrael> wrote: Pete, Timely advice once again! I am in route to Florida this weekend E: great Steve, and please don't visit more gurus there! they might be insane or half-baked you know where I will do exactly as you suggested (with the addition of a gin and to= nic!!) Cheers, Steve S: I take what you are saying as deep rooted desires that go unfulfilled may snowball into something else which t= akes you further away from realization? Please elaborate more though. E: yes, but we were talking about, that suppressing desires can manifest as= mental illness a delusion of god-hood or guru-dom due to the energy of the desire looking for an outlet AND IT WILL FIND ONE S: I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more understanding of. He states, " Weak desires can be removed by introspection and meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be fulfilled and their fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . <E: denial just amplifies them and they can go into transcended to appeal as something else into the inner planes and take one to lala land> I see this with sex-drive sinking into the inner-planes masked and manifested as guru-stance etc -tell me did you understand my point? I brought up as an example supressing the sex-drive, the honest way is to have sex eg. the aberrated way is to stay celibate and create an android who is ever mighty and has mental and astral and other kind of sex in the lala land from Greg's; Shankara's Qualification List Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA *********(Knowledge of Reality/Truth) actually lists four qualifications for the study into the truth of one's na= ture. Basically, Shankara is recommending a well-balanced approach to inquir= ing into Truth. 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the eternal and the timebound. 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the enjoyment of the fruits of one's actions. 3. The Six Accomplishments -- Control of the mind and emotions Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior Responsibility, ability to do one's duty 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs of opposites such as heat and cold, pleasant and unpleasant 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings Ability to foc= us on a single object of mind **6. The burning desire for liberation here you are in great company Steve with Dan, eric, El etc love, Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Era, Allow me to add your name to the good company list. I feel very blessed to have found this group and have enjoyed all of the writings by the members. Who knows.. maybe I can be taken away.. it has been said it can happen in the twinkling of an ayin (eye). I have printed out the responses to my question and will pour over them. I do like your list of 6 points. A good start for a beginner such as myself. Love, Steve Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta4@j...> wrote: > " yacobyisrael " <yacobyisrael> wrote: > > Pete, > > Timely advice once again! I am in route to Florida this weekend > > > E: great Steve, and please don't visit more > gurus there! > > they might be insane or half-baked you > know > > where I will do exactly as you suggested (with the addition of a gin and to= > nic!!) > > Cheers, > Steve > > S: I take what you are saying as deep > rooted desires that go unfulfilled may snowball into something else which t= > akes > you further away from realization? > > Please elaborate more though. > > E: yes, but we were talking about, that suppressing desires can manifest as= > > mental illness a delusion of god-hood or > guru-dom > > due to the energy of the desire looking > for an outlet > > AND IT WILL FIND ONE > > > S: I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is made by > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more > understanding of. > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by > introspection and > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones > must be fulfilled and their > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > <E: denial just amplifies them > and they can go into transcended to appeal > as something else into the inner planes > and take one to lala land> > > I see this with sex-drive sinking into > the inner-planes masked and > manifested as guru-stance etc > > -tell me did you understand my point? > > I brought up as an example supressing > the sex-drive, > > the honest way is to have sex > > eg. the aberrated way is to stay celibate > and create an android who is ever mighty > and has mental and astral and other > kind of sex in the lala land > > from Greg's; > > Shankara's Qualification List > > Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA > > *********(Knowledge of Reality/Truth) > > actually lists four qualifications for the study into the truth of one's na= > ture. Basically, Shankara is recommending a well-balanced approach to inquir= > ing into Truth. > > 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the > eternal and the timebound. > > 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the > enjoyment of the fruits of one's actions. > > 3. The Six Accomplishments -- > Control of the mind and emotions > Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior > Responsibility, ability to do > one's duty > > 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs > of opposites such as heat and cold, > pleasant and unpleasant > > 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings Ability to foc= > us on > a single object of mind > > **6. The burning desire for liberation > > here you are in great company Steve with > Dan, eric, El etc > > love, Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Nisargadatta , " yacobyisrael " <yacobyisrael> wrote: > Pete, > Timely advice once again! I am in route to Florida this weekend > where I will do exactly as you suggested (with the addition of a gin > and tonic!!) > > Cheers, > Steve What's wrong with you man? Daiquiries, pinacoladas. Leave New York behind. Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> > wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " yacobyisrael " > > <yacobyisrael> wrote: > > > Era, > > > I take what you are saying as deep rooted desires that go > > > unfulfilled may snowball into something else which takes you > > further > > > away from realization? Please eloborate more though. To be > honest, > > > reading all of the posts and the idea that any teaching is > second > > > hand, leaves me in quite a " bewildered state " . I have verified > > > that, yes, my mind trying to find a solution is like " pulling > > myself > > > up with my own boot straps " as Sandeep has said. But still the > > idea > > > that I can learn " the way " still lingers in my head, even > > > though " memories " of things I have read on this list say there > is > > > nothing to do or learn. Nothing to " get " . A very puzzling state. > I > > > am trying to digest Pete's advice and enjoy myself in this > state... > > > whoever the hell I am. > > > > > > Steve > > > > Until you clearly see the state of division 'you' are trying to > get > > out of, was created by thought, and you can't get out of it by > > thinking, you will continue pilling thought on top of thought, and > > adding 'knowledge.' You can't wash blood with blood. Buy yourself > > a beach chair, recline, watch the clouds. They will show 'you' how > to > > be. No where to go, nothing to do, just floating in the endless > blue. > > Aaah, > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am reading " I AM THAT " and on page 97 in the chapter > > > > > > > > entitled " Personality, an Obstacle " a statement is > made > > by > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta which I would like a bit more > understanding > > > of. > > > > > > > > He states, " Weak desires can be removed by > introspection > > > and > > > > > > > > meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must be > > fulfilled > > > and > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > denial just amplifies them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ad they can go into transcended to appeal > > > > > as something else into the inner lanes > > > > > and take one to lala land > > > > > > > > > > I see this with sex-drive masked and > > > > > manifested as guru-stance etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me did you understand my point? > > > > > > > > or you want me to elaborate? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why must these strong desires be fulfilled if I am > also > > > told to > > > > > > > view > > > > > > > > thoughts and desires as strangers passed by on the > > > street? Does > > > > > > > > fulfilling them help to eradicate them? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fulfilling them ends the attempt to exist in ongoing > > > > > > > conflict against strong emotions that won't go away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But then, there's also the attempt to live by someone > > > > > > > else's recipe book for how you should deal with > emotions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that attempt comes more from the head, from a search > > > > > > > for certainty and security, than from the heart and > > > > > > > desire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point, Dan. > > > > > > > > > > > > No one can tell you what's right or wrong for you right > now. > > > Looking > > > > > > to find a solution or how to deal with things, takes you > into > > > the > > > > > > realm of concept and thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > Listening to Niz or anyone else keeps one in the comparing > > > realm -- > > > > > > " am I doing this right... what did he mean by this?... how > > > should I > > > > > > experience this?... why don't I have his realization? " > > > > > > > > > > > > This realm of comparing is a sad second-hand state to be > in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > second-hand indeed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, it's a matter of having confidence in this experience, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the other derailing is the 'going > > > > > for 'it' factor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am following this point mentioned > > > > > at the advatin club by Greg and at > > > > > your zen club too, Joe > > > > > > > > > > it is a crucial point imo > > > > > > > > > > as I know that as Greg point to the on > > > > > his page one requirement is to have a > > > > > burning desire for liberation > > > > > > > > > > I say and see online and everywhere > > > > > that at this point many go astray > > > > > > > > > > you have to want liberation to wake up, > > > > > or get enlightened but > > > > > > > > > > YOU CAN NOT! GO FOR IT > > > > > > > > > > the minute 'you' do that it goes to > > > > > build the small-self-ego: the android > > > > > what is amply demonstrated with the glow-heads and other > self- > > > proclaimed > > > > > deluded gurus and teachers online > > > > > > > > > > It is all on a razors edge and all > > > > > razors have 2 sides and most fall > > > > > on the side of the android o the mind > > > > > > > > > > and mind is the Lucifer the apple > > > > > we should not have > > > > > > > > > > to derail us to test us and to keep the > > > > > gate toward god clean > > > > > > > > > > the right view the right aim the right > > > > > ethics > > > > > > > > > > because STRAIGHT is the way and > > > > > NARROW the gate what leads to Light > > > > > [life] > > > > > > > > > > from Greg's; > > > > > > > > > > Shankara's Qualification List > > > > > Adi Shankara, in his introductory advaita text TATTVA BODHA > > > (Knowledge of Reality/Truth) actually lists four qualifications > for > > > the study into the truth of one's nature. Basically, Shankara is > > > recommending a well-balanced approach to inquiring into Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Discrimination -- The ability to discriminate between the > > > eternal and the timebound. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Dispassion -- Dispassion for the enjoyment of the fruits > of > > > one's actions. > > > > > > > > > > 3. The Six Accomplishments -- > > > > > Control of the mind and emotions > > > > > Control of the sense organs, restraining behavior > > > Responsibility, ability to do > > > > > one's duty > > > > > > > > > > 4. Patience and forbearance towards pairs > > > > > of opposites such as heat and cold, > > > > > pleasant and unpleasant > > > > > > > > > > 5.Trust in the words of the teacher and scriptures/teachings > > > > > Ability to focus on a single object of mind > > > > > > > > > > **6. The burning desire for liberation > > > > > > > > > > http://www.nonduality.com/goode2.htm > > > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > right now. > > > > > > Not having confidence in some dude's > > > > > words or believing that some > > > > > > concepts will help you or save you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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