Guest guest Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Hi, I'm almost done reading I am that. It has made a huge impact on my life. The reason I post is that I need help answering the question: " What is grace? " . Looking in the dictionary, in a book and around the web, I find definitions like: " a manifestation of favor, especially by a superior " , " the gift of God inhering in the soul, by which men are enabled to perform righteous acts " , " God's free, undeserved and unmerited mercy towards us. " and " Grace is unmerited favor. It is God's free action for the benefit of His people. It is different than Justice and Mercy. Justice is getting what we deserve. Mercy is not getting what we deserve. Grace is getting what we do not deserve. In grace we get eternal life, something that, quite obviously, we do not deserve. " to name a few. Most definitions, especially those who do not contradict themselves, make sense and I can see and agree to their meaning up to a point. What perplexes me that none of them satisfactorally encompasses the way Nisargadatta uses it: " by the grace of my Guru " . His use of the word seems to suggest a radiance, a presence of something, rather than actual action on part of being that gives said grace. It also seems that this kind of grace is not picky about who receives it. Is this 'definition' close to your idea of Grace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 - " addihetja " <addi <Nisargadatta > Saturday, January 03, 2004 12:08 PM Grace > Hi, > > I'm almost done reading I am that. It has made a huge impact on my life. The reason I > post is that I need help answering the question: " What is grace? " . Looking in the > dictionary, in a book and around the web, I find definitions like: " a manifestation of > favor, especially by a superior " , " the gift of God inhering in the soul, by which men are > enabled to perform righteous acts " , " God's free, undeserved and unmerited mercy > towards us. " and " Grace is unmerited favor. It is God's free action for the benefit of > His people. It is different than Justice and Mercy. Justice is getting what we deserve. > Mercy is not getting what we deserve. Grace is getting what we do not deserve. In > grace we get eternal life, something that, quite obviously, we do not deserve. " to > name a few. > > Most definitions, especially those who do not contradict themselves, make sense and I > can see and agree to their meaning up to a point. What perplexes me that none of > them satisfactorally encompasses the way Nisargadatta uses it: " by the grace of my > Guru " . His use of the word seems to suggest a radiance, a presence of something, > rather than actual action on part of being that gives said grace. Have you ever brought a lit candle close to an unlit one? In such a situation,...sometimes .........the flame of the lit candle, appears to leap across and enflames the wick of the unlit candle. Without in any way diminishing itself. > It also seems that this kind of grace is not picky about who receives it. The issue of picking who is to receive arises, if some one was giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 I hate reading between the lines...it tempts me to assume things. Assumptions aren't necessarily true. An inept spiritual teacher once said: Assumptions is the mother of all f*ckups. So I try not to. Giving perhaps sometimes implies losing, what one disposes of freely to another is lost. In the case of grace this is perhaps not the case. The 'giving' of grace suggests that what is transferred is unmerited. My understanding is this: The creator, the essential counterpart of the creation, does not lose his grace when radiating it by his mere be-ing; the transfer from the creator to the created is beginning-less and therefore end-less. Since the transfer is impersonal it cannot, by its very nature, be 'selective'; the creator loves his creation...not because of the creations merit but because of the creations existence. If the grace of the guru follows the same principles it cannot, by its very nature, be selective of the people its given to. Therefore there is no place for ego-wars in it. Gurus are graceful. Are you? On Jan 3, 2004, at 5:33 PM, sandeep wrote: > > Most definitions, especially those who do not contradict themselves, > make > sense and I > > can see and agree to their meaning up to a point. What perplexes me > that > none of > > them satisfactorally encompasses the way Nisargadatta uses it: " by > the > grace of my > > Guru " . His use of the word seems to suggest a radiance, a presence of > something, > > rather than actual action on part of being that gives said grace. > > > Have you ever brought a lit candle close to an unlit one? > > In such a situation,...sometimes .........the flame of the lit candle, > appears to leap across and enflames the wick of the unlit candle. > > Without in any way diminishing itself. > > > > It also seems that this kind of grace is not picky about who > receives it. > > The issue of picking who is to receive arises, if some one was giving. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , Arnór Kristjánsson <addi@a...> wrote: > I hate reading between the lines...it tempts me to assume things. > Assumptions aren't necessarily true. > > An inept spiritual teacher once said: Assumptions is the mother of all > f*ckups. > So I try not to. > > Giving perhaps sometimes implies losing, what one disposes of freely to > another is lost. In the case of grace this is perhaps not the case. > The 'giving' of grace suggests that what is transferred is unmerited. > > My understanding is this: The creator, the essential counterpart of the > creation, does not lose his grace when radiating it by his mere be-ing; > the transfer from the creator to the created is beginning-less and > therefore end-less. Since the transfer is impersonal it cannot, by its > very nature, be 'selective'; the creator loves his creation...not > because of the creations merit but because of the creations existence. > > If the grace of the guru follows the same principles it cannot, by its > very nature, be selective of the people its given to. > > Therefore there is no place for ego-wars in it. > Gurus are graceful. > > Are you? > One of the fundimental errors that mind makes is to assign actual reality = to its own conceptual creations....and then attempt to make those fabricatio= ns fit nicely together..... Can any one here define grace without using another equally nedulous concep= tual construct? Is there really such a thing as grace? Has anyone actually seen... grace? Oh..I know that we have all seen events that don't fit our normal expectati= ons....If those events are fortuitous and bring about perceived benefit to t= he recipient....we call them grace...... Grace is not a thing.....It is an idea.... It is not a noun.....It is an adjective. We invented it.....we can make it anything we want. > > On Jan 3, 2004, at 5:33 PM, sandeep wrote: > > > > Most definitions, especially those who do not contradict themselves, = > > make > > sense and I > > > can see and agree to their meaning up to a point. What perplexes me > > that > > none of > > > them satisfactorally encompasses the way Nisargadatta uses it: " by > > the > > grace of my > > > Guru " . His use of the word seems to suggest a radiance, a presence of= > > something, > > > rather than actual action on part of being that gives said grace. > > > > > > Have you ever brought a lit candle close to an unlit one? > > > > In such a situation,...sometimes .........the flame of the lit candle, > > appears to leap across and enflames the wick of the unlit candle. > > > > Without in any way diminishing itself. > > > > > > > It also seems that this kind of grace is not picky about who > > receives it. > > > > The issue of picking who is to receive arises, if some one was giving. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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