Guest guest Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Sandeep, I also happened to read one of your messages posted in Jan.04 which seems to have a bearing to the question in my mind. Your statement " life is a choice..a choice made moment to moment.. There is if you agree an " external environ " ..that is something external to " My biological apparatus " . The " external environ " can present itself to me( " My bological apparatus " ) in innumerable possibilities in a given moment. Also the " my biological apparatus " can respond/react in number of possibilities to the " external environ " in " that moment " So within the innumerable possibilities of the " external environ " and the " biological apparatus " WHAT decides the CHOICE ..both of the " external environ " and the " biological apparatus " ? ..... remembering well that... both ....shape my destiny. Anything for me in plain simple English??? Os. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Hi Os, - " oldslave2002 " <ranawade <Nisargadatta > Monday, February 09, 2004 12:29 AM Re: Greatest work is done by not working?(SANDEEP) > Sandeep, > > I also happened to read one of your messages posted in Jan.04 which > seems to have a bearing to the question in my mind. > Your statement " life is a choice..a choice made moment to moment.. I have no clue what got prattled then.:-) I suspect it would have been " living is a choosing taking place in the moment. Moment to moment to moment " > > There is if you agree an " external environ " ..that is something external to " My biological apparatus " . As an apparent separation. At which point does the outer skin not touch the " external environ " ? Yes conventionally, we speak of an object and a separated external environ to that object. > The " external environ " can present itself to me( " My bological apparatus " ) in innumerable possibilities in a given moment. Absolutely. > Also the " my biological apparatus " can respond/react in number of possibilities to the " external environ " in " that moment " . Sure. And in the moment, among the infinite possibilities, one possibility occurs. > So within the innumerable possibilities of the " external environ " and the " biological apparatus " WHAT decides the >CHOICE ..both of the " external environ " and the " biological apparatus " ? ..... So in plain English, what you are asking, is if " Os " is not in control of " Os' life,........ who is? Right? Use any term,.......Source, Consciousness, God, Noumenon, Bozo the Clown, Awareness-not-aware-of-itself, Jay Leno, Void, Plenum-of-all-possibilities, I-I, not-Two-not-One........ ......whatever term sits well on you. Makes no difference what term, what name you use. And invite to look at the term choosing and controlling. Can they be of any relevance? When I am all that there IS,..........what is not-I,...............about which I can excercise a choice, or look to control? I dance in a hall of billions and billions of mirrors, with each of the mirrors,....... differently and uniquely curved/architectured And thus as I dance, .........the billions and billions of danced images, each unique, each different .......and... each getting danced in a unique manner. And since, there is nothing which is not-I,...............the hall of billion mirrors,........... and each of the mirrors......... is nothing but I. The sought,..................playing all the roles of all the seekers,................simultaneously. And simultaneously witnessing the drama. >remembering well that... both ....shape my destiny. Whose destiny? > > Anything for me in plain simple English??? You want simpler. Os has never lived. Never, ever. Os has been and is............................ " lived " . In the moment. Exactly as living is happening in the moment. Moment to moment to moment. So to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > - > " oldslave2002 " <ranawade@r...> > <Nisargadatta > > Monday, February 09, 2004 11:50 PM > Re: Greatest work is done by not working? Dear Sandeep, Yes, I sense the continous movement that i am in....whether I am awake,in sleep,at work or wherever I am...for that matter in this moment of typing this message. This movement as I understand is a movement created by my mind .... this movement is within the movement of the entire universe..that of movement of the stars/planets/tides/breeze/volcanic eruptions/floods, etc..etc.. This movement which I have generated IS my life....and if you ask me......what fuels this movement....what gives it direction...what is that singular element on which my movement depends entirely upon......then the anwer seems to be........my " desires " . If we assume that all that we are seeing right now is an illusion created by my faulty cognitive apparatus then what keeps me glued to this illusory world????? My " desires " . Remove " desires " and perhaps I would be unplugged from the imaginary world that is of my own making... instead of saying " world " I would say " prison " . If " desires " fuel my movement what lends direction? All the incidences of my past whether physical,emotional or spiritual or of whatever nature....so to say are " plots " on my graph paper....join all these plots with " memory " and that`s what creates a " template " through which my future movement is directed. That means my " movement " is past-oriented.....as my cognitive apparatus can process the " incoming sensory packet " only through this template.... all that i currently see is what my mind wants it to see.... So concluding therefore ....... " memory " and " desires " seem to be the main culprits of my " continous movement in the moment " ..... The former i must use as a tool,the later i must relinquish if ...if.. i want to quit my movement in the vast movement...so that i would only be perhaps a part of the vast movement in the moment...or perhaps only be the movement. How then do I reach this goal....by not working??? Anything for me?????of-course in plain simple English.. Os. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " oldslave2002 " <ranawade@r...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > > - > > " oldslave2002 " <ranawade@r...> > > <Nisargadatta > > > Monday, February 09, 2004 11:50 PM > > Re: Greatest work is done by not working? > > > Dear Sandeep, > > Yes, I sense the continous movement that i am in....whether I am > awake,in sleep,at work or wherever I am...for that matter in this > moment of typing this message. > > This movement as I understand is a movement created by my mind .... > this movement is within the movement of the entire universe..that of > movement of the stars/planets/tides/breeze/volcanic eruptions/floods, > etc..etc.. > > This movement which I have generated IS my life....and if you ask > me......what fuels this movement....what gives it direction...what is > that singular element on which my movement depends entirely > upon......then the anwer seems to be........my " desires " . > > If we assume that all that we are seeing right now is an illusion > created by my faulty cognitive apparatus then what keeps me glued to > this illusory world????? > > My " desires " . > > Remove " desires " and perhaps I would be unplugged from the imaginary > world that is of my own making... instead of saying " world " I would > say " prison " . > > If " desires " fuel my movement what lends direction? > All the incidences of my past whether physical,emotional or spiritual > or of whatever nature....so to say are " plots " on my graph > paper....join all these plots with " memory " and that`s what creates a > " template " through which my future movement is directed. > That means my " movement " is past-oriented.....as my cognitive > apparatus can process the " incoming sensory packet " only through this > template.... all that i currently see is what my mind wants it to > see.... > > So concluding therefore ....... " memory " and " desires " seem to be the > main culprits of my " continous movement in the moment " ..... > > The former i must use as a tool,the later i must relinquish if ...if.. > i want to quit my movement in the vast movement...so that i would > only be perhaps a part of the vast movement in the moment...or > perhaps only be the movement. > > How then do I reach this goal....by not working??? > > Anything for me?????of-course in plain simple English.. > > Os. So..........You want an answer to the question of who you really are...... and....you say you want it in plain simple English. So.....keeping in mind that anything that appears to exist in duality...is false..... (are you ready?).......here we go. THERE IS NO 'YOU'!!!!!!!! All of the searching for self that is attributed to the phanton named Os are the flounderings of a pseudo-identity seeking only to confirm its own reality.........a clever ruse by the ego to make itself appear real.....(if it is searching for itself....it figures it must be real)....... here's a funny thing: There is absolutely nothing it can do to stop what it does...... ........because.......well.........it isn't the one doing it.......... and here's the real zinger: It can never see this.....because the act of seeing only confirms its apparent existence........ .............................................. seekers are only playing the part of seekers.........(there are no finders on stage) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 - " oldslave2002 " <ranawade <Nisargadatta > Thursday, February 12, 2004 06:07 PM Re: Greatest work is done by not working?(SANDEEP) > Nisargadatta , sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > > - > > " oldslave2002 " <ranawade@r...> > > <Nisargadatta > > > Monday, February 09, 2004 11:50 PM > > Re: Greatest work is done by not working? > > > Dear Sandeep, > > Yes, I sense the continous movement that i am in....whether I am > awake,in sleep,at work or wherever I am...for that matter in this > moment of typing this message. > > This movement as I understand is a movement created by my mind .... > this movement is within the movement of the entire universe..that of > movement of the stars/planets/tides/breeze/volcanic eruptions/floods, > etc..etc.. > > This movement which I have generated IS my life....and if you ask > me......what fuels this movement....what gives it direction...what is > that singular element on which my movement depends entirely > upon......then the anwer seems to be........my " desires " . > > If we assume that all that we are seeing right now is an illusion > created by my faulty cognitive apparatus then what keeps me glued to > this illusory world????? > > My " desires " . > > Remove " desires " and perhaps I would be unplugged from the imaginary > world that is of my own making... instead of saying " world " I would > say " prison " . > > If " desires " fuel my movement what lends direction? > All the incidences of my past whether physical,emotional or spiritual > or of whatever nature....so to say are " plots " on my graph > paper....join all these plots with " memory " and that`s what creates a > " template " through which my future movement is directed. > That means my " movement " is past-oriented.....as my cognitive > apparatus can process the " incoming sensory packet " only through this > template.... all that i currently see is what my mind wants it to > see.... > > So concluding therefore ....... " memory " and " desires " seem to be the > main culprits of my " continous movement in the moment " ..... The term " culprit " has a connotation, doesn't it? As if the continuous movement in the moment, as " Os " , is something bad, should not have happened etc. Whereas, in order to produce the particular movement in the moment,... as the action through " Os " in that moment, .... .....whether as mentation or it's external actualization, aka a physical action/behaviour,.......... .....a precisely crafted " Os " with it's unique wiring/conditioning/sense of stake/ etc ......had to be around in THAT moment. And so it does. > The former i must use as a tool,the later i must relinquish if Who is to use what? Who is to relinquish what? And yet a usage, a reliquishing,........may well be a nuance of a danced image. ....if.. > i want to quit my movement in the vast movement For a quitting to be possible,............there has to be something apart for the movement, isn't it? It's like a " wave " in the Ocean, wants to quit the Ocean. Yes, the Ocean may be in movement. Or it may be in cessation of movement. ....so that i would > only be perhaps a part of the vast movement in the moment...or > perhaps only be the movement. > > How then do I reach this goal....by not working??? Oh, you can do whatsoever you are moved to. Work, in whatever manner, mode, paths,techniques....... to solve the conundrum of a goal and an apart-from-the-goal, striving to reach the goal. Or try to resolve the conundrum, by not working at it. Whatever you are moved to. Irrespective of whatever you are moved to do or not to do,...............the conundrum can only explode, by itself, in itself,....... ............ in the apperception that if alpha is the very omega, ...........what becoming? And if there is no becoming, can any goal have a relevance? Thus the dissolution of the conundrum is not in any solution to it, but in the total cessation of it's relevance. And the cessation of relevance is not aka something substantial now losing it's meaning or significance, .... ....but more in terms of seeing the striving to collect cement mortar and bricks, in order to build a dam. To stop the rushing, raging, rising waters, causing untold damage, suffering and devastation. Of the mirage lake in the desert. Till that time......by all means........have fun,....... consulting bridging experts and making construction blueprints And hoarding up bricks. > > Anything for me?????of-course in plain simple English.. Well the Beedi dude was plain enough.... There is no such state as seeing the real. Who is to see what? You can only be the real--which you are, anyhow. The problem is only mental. Abandon false ideas, that is all. There is no need of true ideas. There aren't any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Hey there, Old Slave How to do? Just do what ol man Nisargadatta said to do & what his guru tole him to do: Stay focused on the sense of " I am " . No matter what happens or what thoughts come up, always go back to " I am " . Not just the words " I am " but the sense of " I am " . It's the only thing that is constant. Stay in THAT. Soon, you'll see your body & your mind are not you & that you are something aloof from it all. Just be persistent in this technique & all will resolve itself. It works. peace Danananda Nisargadatta , " oldslave2002 " <ranawade@r...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , sandeep <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > > - > > " oldslave2002 " <ranawade@r...> > > <Nisargadatta > > > Monday, February 09, 2004 11:50 PM > > Re: Greatest work is done by not working? > > > Dear Sandeep, > > Yes, I sense the continous movement that i am in....whether I am > awake,in sleep,at work or wherever I am...for that matter in this > moment of typing this message. > > This movement as I understand is a movement created by my mind .... > this movement is within the movement of the entire universe..that of > movement of the stars/planets/tides/breeze/volcanic eruptions/floods, > etc..etc.. > > This movement which I have generated IS my life....and if you ask > me......what fuels this movement....what gives it direction...what is > that singular element on which my movement depends entirely > upon......then the anwer seems to be........my " desires " . > > If we assume that all that we are seeing right now is an illusion > created by my faulty cognitive apparatus then what keeps me glued to > this illusory world????? > > My " desires " . > > Remove " desires " and perhaps I would be unplugged from the imaginary > world that is of my own making... instead of saying " world " I would > say " prison " . > > If " desires " fuel my movement what lends direction? > All the incidences of my past whether physical,emotional or spiritual > or of whatever nature....so to say are " plots " on my graph > paper....join all these plots with " memory " and that`s what creates a > " template " through which my future movement is directed. > That means my " movement " is past-oriented.....as my cognitive > apparatus can process the " incoming sensory packet " only through this > template.... all that i currently see is what my mind wants it to > see.... > > So concluding therefore ....... " memory " and " desires " seem to be the > main culprits of my " continous movement in the moment " ..... > > The former i must use as a tool,the later i must relinquish if ...if.. > i want to quit my movement in the vast movement...so that i would > only be perhaps a part of the vast movement in the moment...or > perhaps only be the movement. > > How then do I reach this goal....by not working??? > > Anything for me?????of-course in plain simple English.. > > Os. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 So in effect i keep on doing what i keep on doing...till the day...my front door is knocked.....to see myself face to face............ thst`s right Sandeep? Os Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 > So in effect i keep on doing what i keep on doing...till the day...my > front door is knocked.....to see myself face to face............ > thst`s right Sandeep? Silly-ass nonsense is what I call it. If you have to ask ANYBODY then you haven't got a clue. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 If that is what appears " right " for you in the moment, ........with the vacancy,......... that next moment, could either be more of the same, or a dramatic opposite. Or neither of them... The usual debate on whether to do or not to do is amusing. Both doing and non-doing,.........are neither useful nor useless. - " oldslave2002 " <ranawade <Nisargadatta > Friday, February 13, 2004 07:08 AM Re: Greatest work is done by not working?(SANDEEP) > So in effect i keep on doing what i keep on doing...till the day...my > front door is knocked.....to see myself face to face............ > thst`s right Sandeep? > Os Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > > So in effect i keep on doing what i keep on doing...till the day...my > > front door is knocked.....to see myself face to face............ > > thst`s right Sandeep? > > Silly-ass nonsense is what I call it. > > If you have to ask ANYBODY then you haven't got a clue. > > Bill You don`t know me Bill... you dont even have an idea what I know ... You dont know what I am looking for... you dont even know ..that I did get the right clue... you dont know how.. you dont even know the difference between nobody,somebody,everybody and anybody.. a take-it-or-leave-it-advise: sometimes it pays to pretend to be a " silly- ass " than to pretend to be a " smart-ass " . the former is easy ,the later tough.. you are a tough guy Bill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 You seem pretty tough yourself Os. - " oldslave2002 " <ranawade <Nisargadatta > Friday, February 13, 2004 10:26 AM Re: Greatest work is done by not working?(SANDEEP) > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > > > So in effect i keep on doing what i keep on doing...till the > day...my > > > front door is knocked.....to see myself face to face............ > > > thst`s right Sandeep? > > > > Silly-ass nonsense is what I call it. > > > > If you have to ask ANYBODY then you haven't got a clue. > > > > Bill > > > You don`t know me Bill... > you dont even have an idea what I know ... > You dont know what I am looking for... > you dont even know ..that I did get the right clue... > you dont know how.. > you dont even know the difference between nobody,somebody,everybody > and anybody.. > > a take-it-or-leave-it-advise: > sometimes it pays to pretend to be a " silly- ass " than to pretend to > be a " smart-ass " . > the former is easy ,the later tough.. > you are a tough guy Bill... > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > > So in effect i keep on doing what i keep on doing...till the day...my > > front door is knocked.....to see myself face to face............ > > thst`s right Sandeep? > > Silly-ass nonsense is what I call it. > > If you have to ask ANYBODY then you haven't got a clue. > > Bill On second thoughts.... Let's look at it, this way Bill.... you would agree that 'good' exists because there is something 'bad'... that is ..because something is 'hot', something 'cold' would exist... So were it not for clue-less silly-asses like me who would call you wise? because there are people like you who have attained the 'truth....who have arrived home...are there people who are in search..like me.. dont we both co-exist ????? are we not complemental to each other??? imagine a world full of smart-asses......how boring would it be?? silly-asses like me lend colour to this entire scheme ???. so to say ...you are where i would like to be..... to the opposite end of the spectrum of phenomenality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Hey, there, Slave dude: I don't think that Bill thinks he's better than you. He told me he don't even exist & that nothing ever moves. So, whatever you perceive to be as him, isn't really him, & if he wrote to you, it didn't actually happen. So, I wouldn't worry about it. Personally, I think you're on the right track. Asking questions is the way to go. This whole Advaita Vedanta exercise is about self inquiry. So, fire away, Mr. Slave. peace Danananda Nisargadatta , " oldslave2002 " <ranawade@r...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > > > So in effect i keep on doing what i keep on doing...till the > day...my > > > front door is knocked.....to see myself face to face............ > > > thst`s right Sandeep? > > > > Silly-ass nonsense is what I call it. > > > > If you have to ask ANYBODY then you haven't got a clue. > > > > Bill > > > On second thoughts.... > Let's look at it, this way Bill.... > you would agree that 'good' exists because there is something 'bad'... > that is ..because something is 'hot', something 'cold' would exist... > > So were it not for clue-less silly-asses like me who would call you > wise? > > because there are people like you who have attained the 'truth....who > have arrived home...are there people who are in search..like me.. > > dont we both co-exist ????? > > are we not complemental to each other??? > > imagine a world full of smart-asses......how boring would it be?? > > silly-asses like me lend colour to this entire scheme ???. > > so to say ...you are where i would like to be..... > > to the opposite end of the spectrum of phenomenality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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