Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Yes, I have read I Am That.... and yes, I just signed up to this group. Unfortunately, I haven't felt compelled to write anything, because, so far, all I can see are fluffy words, with no real attempt at getting to the pains and desires rather we are lead down the garden path, where empty words are a replacement for my human conflict...., but no real effort to actually understand our human desires. This is why I came, to understand myself better... Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, there is a play of words that take us nowhere. But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? I am not enlightened, I have merely had moments where time and space have ceased. And that is all I know. Castro Find local movie times and trailers on Movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hi Castro, - " m castro " <castro2012 <Nisargadatta > Thursday, March 18, 2004 03:05 PM Ever heard of Cervantes? > Yes, I have read I Am That.... and yes, I just signed up to this group. Unfortunately, I haven't felt compelled to write anything, >because, so far, all I can see are fluffy words, with no real attempt at getting to the pains and desires rather we are lead down the >garden path, where empty words are a replacement for my human conflict...., but no real effort to actually understand our human >desires. ------- What human conflict? ----------- > > This is why I came, to understand myself better... ------ Can you see the oxy-moron-ess in that? -------- > > Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, >there is a play of words that take us nowhere. ------------ Where do you wish to go? --------- > > But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. -------- Wooof. ------- >So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. > > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. ---------- by most, whom? What is the issue with sexual desire? When you are hot, you are hot. When you are not, you are not. -------- > > How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) -------- No clue about that. Rolling Beedis is not very profitable and it's all cash transactions anyway. However what has paying of taxes or evading them to do with enlightenment? ------- > > Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow >other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). ------- OK. How about you Castro? -------- > > Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? > > In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? -------- Why on earth should it bother? Do you go about stamping on your shadow, to erase it''s infernal presence? ------- > > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? -------- Who is that I, ........who is the me of the my? -------- > > I am not enlightened, ------ Ahaa, so you know what is enlightenment? You must, otherwise how can you conclude that you are not. So tell the secret, what is enlightenment as per Castro? -------- > I have merely had moments where time and space have ceased. And that is all I know. Good. And now invite you to forget all that baloney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. What does it matter what " most " do? > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? Who's keeping score? > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention > and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out > over my past illusions? It is ordinary to try to change one's behavior. That is just going in circles. The *deep path* is to fathom the roots of your behaviour. Where does you behaviour arise? Go into it very very deeply. This is not about facile ideas. This is about deep work that only you can do. Be very very present with yourself. Witness every thought, every feeling as it arises. And go deeper and deeper into the source from which they arise. Witness the space in which your thought and feelings move. Be aware more of the space, and sense the thoughts and feelings as birds moving through the sky. Just keep going deeper. Go deeper when you are sitting quietly. Go deeper when you are working. Bill - m castro Nisargadatta Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:35 AM Ever heard of Cervantes? Yes, I have read I Am That.... and yes, I just signed up to this group. Unfortunately, I haven't felt compelled to write anything, because, so far, all I can see are fluffy words, with no real attempt at getting to the pains and desires rather we are lead down the garden path, where empty words are a replacement for my human conflict...., but no real effort to actually understand our human desires. This is why I came, to understand myself better... Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, there is a play of words that take us nowhere. But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? I am not enlightened, I have merely had moments where time and space have ceased. And that is all I know. Castro Find local movie times and trailers on Movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 > Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, there is a play of words that take us nowhere. This being a discussion board - words is all we got. Sometimes, we don't even have words. > > But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. > > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. Sexual desires are like desires for strawberries, only stronger. When it comes to Being, the questions are typically serious, but the answer is hilarious. > > How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) There are no outward signs of one who is enlightened. > > Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). Funny thing is, every one belongs to a cult. Get out of the cult. > > Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? > > In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? > > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? The senses and intellect are duty bound to deliver to awareness both pleasure and pain. Do not try to deny this natural duty, it will lead to dullness and or fustration. Trick is to absorb awareness in the blissfull absolute, then these impressions will not bind and lead to future desires and actions. Don't shut out the darkness, bring in the second element, bring in the light. take care, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 > Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? > > In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? Hi Castro! Re-read El Quijote, would I recommend, and, read accurately the passages concerning Sancho Panza's donkey. Ha! sk P.S. El Quijote is really marvelous! I love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Thanks Bill, at least your response had some compassion attached to it. Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. What does it matter what " most " do? > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? Who's keeping score? > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention > and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out > over my past illusions? It is ordinary to try to change one's behavior. That is just going in circles. The *deep path* is to fathom the roots of your behaviour. Where does you behaviour arise? Go into it very very deeply. This is not about facile ideas. This is about deep work that only you can do. Be very very present with yourself. Witness every thought, every feeling as it arises. And go deeper and deeper into the source from which they arise. Witness the space in which your thought and feelings move. Be aware more of the space, and sense the thoughts and feelings as birds moving through the sky. Just keep going deeper. Go deeper when you are sitting quietly. Go deeper when you are working. Bill - m castro Nisargadatta Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:35 AM Ever heard of Cervantes? Yes, I have read I Am That.... and yes, I just signed up to this group. Unfortunately, I haven't felt compelled to write anything, because, so far, all I can see are fluffy words, with no real attempt at getting to the pains and desires rather we are lead down the garden path, where empty words are a replacement for my human conflict...., but no real effort to actually understand our human desires. This is why I came, to understand myself better... Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, there is a play of words that take us nowhere. But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? I am not enlightened, I have merely had moments where time and space have ceased. And that is all I know. Castro Find local movie times and trailers on Movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Yes. On most points you are right. Just don't pay too much attention to my confusion. I have searched deeply, but am not where I should be. That does not mean that I think I am " going anywhere " .... Clearly I did not mean that literally. It's just a way of trying to express myself to people that I do not personally know. " Woof " Yes, I am taking meaningless matters too seriously, but, unfortunately, my mind is strong, and requires more than a " woof " to go beyond it. And no, I don't see the oxy-MORON-ness.... maybe you could explain it to me. Marcelo sandeep <sandeepc wrote: Hi Castro, - " m castro " <castro2012 <Nisargadatta > Thursday, March 18, 2004 03:05 PM Ever heard of Cervantes? > Yes, I have read I Am That.... and yes, I just signed up to this group. Unfortunately, I haven't felt compelled to write anything, >because, so far, all I can see are fluffy words, with no real attempt at getting to the pains and desires rather we are lead down the >garden path, where empty words are a replacement for my human conflict...., but no real effort to actually understand our human >desires. ------- What human conflict? ----------- > > This is why I came, to understand myself better... ------ Can you see the oxy-moron-ess in that? -------- > > Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, >there is a play of words that take us nowhere. ------------ Where do you wish to go? --------- > > But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. -------- Wooof. ------- >So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. > > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. ---------- by most, whom? What is the issue with sexual desire? When you are hot, you are hot. When you are not, you are not. -------- > > How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) -------- No clue about that. Rolling Beedis is not very profitable and it's all cash transactions anyway. However what has paying of taxes or evading them to do with enlightenment? ------- > > Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow >other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). ------- OK. How about you Castro? -------- > > Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? > > In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? -------- Why on earth should it bother? Do you go about stamping on your shadow, to erase it''s infernal presence? ------- > > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? -------- Who is that I, ........who is the me of the my? -------- > > I am not enlightened, ------ Ahaa, so you know what is enlightenment? You must, otherwise how can you conclude that you are not. So tell the secret, what is enlightenment as per Castro? -------- > I have merely had moments where time and space have ceased. And that is all I know. Good. And now invite you to forget all that baloney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 I will re-read the book. It's true, I am in some conflict.... Yet, I am very clear on some things. I have only become aware of things within the last few years. Although, I still want to know why enlightenment for some people means being arrogant and cold... I Am That seams to breed Arrogance, and not compassion. Why? Two of my friends that began to get into I Am That before me, have been turned into extremely arrogant self-centered selfish people, who don't give time to anything or anyone other than " I am " . They refute all arguments, and life events, by stating " I Am " They don't care about world events, or anything that happens, other than to themselves. They think that " I Am That " will save them from a man weilding a sharp knife! They used to be warm and friendly people. Now, it's " I Am " or nothing. I understand this. But they are still in my presence, they still have family, and this world still exists for them. They still drive cars. " I Am " is an excuse that they use to not care about anything while not feeling guilt or remorse for their actions because of the validation of duality. sk000005 <sk000005 wrote: > Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? > > In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? Hi Castro! Re-read El Quijote, would I recommend, and, read accurately the passages concerning Sancho Panza's donkey. Ha! sk P.S. El Quijote is really marvelous! I love it! ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Yoohoo Marcelo, - " m castro " <castro2012 <Nisargadatta > Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:43 PM Re: Ever heard of Cervantes? > > Yes. On most points you are right. ------- :-) On which points I am not? > > Just don't pay too much attention to my confusion. ----- OK ------ > > I have searched deeply, but am not where I should be. ------- OK. Where do you suppose that " should " is? ------- > That does not mean that I think I am " going anywhere " .... Clearly I did not mean that literally. It's just a way of trying to >express myself to people that I do not personally know. -------- No, you do believe you have to go somewhere, reach somewhere. That's a consequence of a prevailing sense of a " should " . When all sense of " should(s) " (a should-not is also a should),................... ceases, ........all sense of. having to go somewhere, reach somewhere,.............ceases. And along ceases,..............all sense of seeking. Now a should that all " shoulds " should cease, is nothing but a should.:-) --------- > > " Woof " Yes, I am taking meaningless matters too seriously, but, unfortunately, my mind is strong, and requires more than a " woof " to go beyond it. --------- That's the oxymoron. A mind wanting to go beyond mind is just more mind-stuff. It's like wanting to lift yourself by your bootstraps. You are the very weight, you are wanting to lift. Will a lifting ever be possible, .............no matter what technique, what path, what methodology, what process, what doing ,..........you believe can guarantee success? Giving up trying, in the hope that a liftting will be possible by that giving up,...............is once again the same game. > > And no, I don't see the oxy-MORON-ness.... maybe you could explain it to me. As above. > > Marcelo > > sandeep <sandeepc wrote: > Hi Castro, > > > > - > " m castro " <castro2012 > <Nisargadatta > > Thursday, March 18, 2004 03:05 PM > Ever heard of Cervantes? > > > > Yes, I have read I Am That.... and yes, I just signed up to this group. Unfortunately, I haven't felt compelled to write anything, >because, so far, all I can see are fluffy words, with no real attempt at getting to the pains and desires rather we are lead down the >garden path, where empty words are a replacement for my human conflict...., but no real effort to actually understand our human >desires. > > > ------- > What human conflict? > ----------- > > > > > > This is why I came, to understand myself better... > > ------ > Can you see the oxy-moron-ess in that? > -------- > > > > > Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, >there is a play of words that take us nowhere. > > ------------ > > Where do you wish to go? > > --------- > > > > > But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. > > -------- > > Wooof. > > ------- > > >So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. > > > > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. > > ---------- > > by most, whom? > > What is the issue with sexual desire? > > When you are hot, you are hot. > When you are not, you are not. > > -------- > > > > > > > How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) > > -------- > > No clue about that. > > Rolling Beedis is not very profitable and it's all cash transactions anyway. > > However what has paying of taxes or evading them to do with enlightenment? > > ------- > > > > > Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow >other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). > > > ------- > > OK. > How about you Castro? > > -------- > > > > > > Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? > > > > In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. > > > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? > > > -------- > > Why on earth should it bother? > > Do you go about stamping on your shadow, to erase it''s infernal presence? > > ------- > > > > > > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? > > -------- > > Who is that I, ........who is the me of the my? > > -------- > > > > > I am not enlightened, > > > ------ > > Ahaa, so you know what is enlightenment? > > You must, otherwise how can you conclude that you are not. > > So tell the secret, what is enlightenment as per Castro? > > -------- > > > > I have merely had moments where time and space have ceased. And that is all I know. > > > Good. > And now invite you to forget all that baloney. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Nisargadatta , m castro <castro2012> wrote: > I will re-read the book. > > It's true, I am in some conflict.... sk: Resolve it! > > Yet, I am very clear on some things. sk: This is the worst thing that can happen > > I have only become aware of things within the last few years. > > Although, I still want to know why enlightenment for some people means being arrogant and cold... I Am That seams to breed Arrogance, and not compassion. Why? > Two of my friends that began to get into I Am That before me, have been turned into extremely arrogant self-centered selfish people, who don't give time to anything or anyone other than " I am " . > They refute all arguments, and life events, by stating " I Am " > They don't care about world events, or anything that happens, other than to themselves. They think that " I Am That " will save them from a man weilding a sharp knife! > They used to be warm and friendly people. > > Now, it's " I Am " or nothing. > > > > I understand this. But they are still in my presence, they still have family, and this world still exists for them. They still drive cars. " I Am " is an excuse that they use to not care about anything while not feeling guilt or remorse for their actions because of the validation of duality. sk: Resolve the conflict, you've got a precious mirror. Conflicts can only lunge out of things you think you are clear on. What makes you different to your friends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 m castro, if you haven't found the answers you are looking for in 'I AM THAT', do you think you will find them in a ? do you think the people that would give you answers here are anything but Nisargadatta preachers reciting their bible 'I AM THAT'? do you think the words they will write in response to you are their own experience? my humble advice to you: start a new group inside your mind and find the master there. dabo p.s. about the compassion in Nisargadatta's words - the master's 'work' is to destroy your illusions, not to comfort you. this will very often feel painful. oops, i am preaching forget this p.s.! - " m castro " <castro2012 <Nisargadatta > Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:59 AM Re: Ever heard of Cervantes? > Thanks Bill, at least your response had some compassion attached to it. > > > Bill Rishel <plexus wrote: > > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. > What does it matter what " most " do? > > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? > Who's keeping score? > > > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention > > and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out > > over my past illusions? > It is ordinary to try to change one's behavior. That is just going in > circles. The *deep path* is to fathom the roots of your behaviour. > Where does you behaviour arise? Go into it very very deeply. > This is not about facile ideas. This is about deep work that only > you can do. > > Be very very present with yourself. Witness every thought, > every feeling as it arises. And go deeper and deeper into the > source from which they arise. > > Witness the space in which your thought and feelings move. > Be aware more of the space, and sense the thoughts and > feelings as birds moving through the sky. > > Just keep going deeper. > > Go deeper when you are sitting quietly. > Go deeper when you are working. > > Bill > > > > > > - > m castro > Nisargadatta > Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:35 AM > Ever heard of Cervantes? > > > Yes, I have read I Am That.... and yes, I just signed up to this group. Unfortunately, I haven't felt compelled to write anything, because, so far, all I can see are fluffy words, with no real attempt at getting to the pains and desires rather we are lead down the garden path, where empty words are a replacement for my human conflict...., but no real effort to actually understand our human desires. > > This is why I came, to understand myself better... > > Unfortunately what I have found with a lot of his followers... is that there is little room for " blood sweat and tears " work, rather, there is a play of words that take us nowhere. > > But I have serious questions, that require serious answeres. So, If I have to refer to an old book, to find something that I cannot find on the net, then I'll stick to the book. > > For example, why is the question of sexual desire brushed to the side by most. > > How can someone be enlightened, when you give money to a government that does NO good with it?(to say the very least). (Did Nisargadatta pay tax to the Indian Government?) > > Unfortunately, what I have found with Nisargaddata's followers, is that they are hypocrites. No different to most people who follow other beliefs(dogmatic or fluid). > > Does anyone know the story Don Quixotte by Cervantes? > > In the end, reality wins out over Quixotte's illusions. > > Why isn't reality winning out over this illusion? > > If I am the giver and taker of pain, then why isn't my intention and will strong enough to end it? Shouldn't my realization win out over my past illusions? > > I am not enlightened, I have merely had moments where time and space have ceased. And that is all I know. > > Castro > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Movies. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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