Sandeep finally answers Dabo -OR- let's cut to the bonemarrow / joe

[Guest guest]

-

" josesiem " <josesiem

<Nisargadatta >

Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:27 PM

Re: Sandeep finally answers Dabo -OR- let's cut to the

bonemarrow

 

 

> > advancing to buddhahood requires a much deeper understanding,

> > a more total awareness of what is.

> > it has nothing to do with honing your debating skills.

> > it has nothing to do with linguistic gymnastics.

> >

> > it has to do with awareness,

> > pure observation of what is.

> >

> > it has to do with a total transformation of your energies,

> > and if you don't know what the hell dabo is talking about,

> > then you are far from buddhahood.

> >

> > a true seeker is in pain

> >

> >

> > dabo

>

> Well, dab-ster, I'm glad that you have THE criteria for Buddhahood --

> I've been looking for awhile now.

>

> So, if someone is in pure observation of what is, how would he look

> or be any different than anyone else? And why is this Buddhahood?

> (rhetorical question, no need for answers)

>

> Sounds like some ideas you got from books.

>

 

 

 

pure observation.

 

yes, i learned about it from the words of the 'enlightened'.

 

and yet,

pure observation is not an idea.

it is action.

you can do it or not do it.

you cannot think about it.

why?

thinking is not pure observation.

 

 

 

 

> > a true seeker is in pain

>

> Bullshit.

>

> A " true seeker " seeks Truth at all costs, pain or not. If you're in

> pain, do something about it, leave this enlightenment business alone.

>

> Best wishes,

> Joe

>

 

 

 

 

'pain' is used in the broadest sense here.

any kind of dissatisfaction is pain.

 

 

 

so my question to you is:

 

why would i seek something

if i am satisfied with what is?

 

 

 

 

dabo

 

 

 

 

p.s.

maybe this 'enlightenment business'

and pain are related somehow, don't you think?

[Guest guest]

-

" josesiem " <josesiem

<Nisargadatta >

Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:32 AM

Re: Sandeep finally answers Dabo -OR- let's cut to the

bonemarrow / joe

 

 

> Nisargadatta , " dabo " <dscasta> wrote:

> > so my question to you is:

> >

> > why would i seek something

> > if i am satisfied with what is?

>

>

> Exactly. You wouldn't. Being satisfied with what is could be said to

> be a sign of somebody who's awake.

>

>

 

 

exactly.

 

and so - pain and enlightenment ARE related.

the enlightened is free of pain.

 

 

 

(reminder: pain is any kind of dissatisfaction)

 

 

 

> >

> > p.s.

> > maybe this 'enlightenment business'

> > and pain are related somehow, don't you think?

>

> " Enlightenment " arises with " dissatisfaction " .

 

 

 

you miss in the very beginning.

you see, you can't put dissatisfaction in " " .

it is a fact.

if my head hurts, it hurts.

if i am bored, i am bored.

 

pain is a fact.

 

 

 

 

Seeking something

> other than 'what is', IMO, creates the problem of " achieving

> enlightenment " .

 

 

'seeking' itself creates the problem.

 

the buddhas say:

what has not been lost

can never be found.

 

(or, it cannot be sought)

 

you already ARE 'what is'.

 

you already ARE free of pain.

 

your seeking for it, your running after it

creates the illusion that you are not.

 

(or so the buddhas say)

(i have to say this constantly

or you will accuse me of cheating

 

 

 

IOW, enlightenment is a construct of a discontented,

> searching mind. " You " create the problem/existence/ultimate panacea

> of enlightenment.

>

> Leave enlightenment alone and face the problem, the dissatisfaction

> directly.

 

 

as we already established,

these two are closely related.

 

up to now i haven't heard of any other type of 'human being'

that is free of dissatisfaction,

besides the 'enlightened'.

 

you know any?

 

 

 

>(You creating the idea of) " Enlightenment "

 

 

'enlightenment' is not an idea,

because pain is not an idea.

 

to me,

enlightenment is a state free of pain.

 

 

 

 

is creating the

> idea for you that there is a way out. But there is no way out of

> here!

 

 

of where?

 

there is pain

and there are these 'crazy' people that say

it need not be.

that is all.

there is no 'here' and 'there'.

 

 

 

 

>

> The idea that there is a way out is only your thought of it. How bout

> them apples? :-)

>

> Joe

>

>

 

 

how bout them potatoes

 

 

i think i answered all your questions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

a true seeker is honest

 

dabo