Harsha On Self Knowledge

[Guest guest]

Harsha> what is there during deep sleep that is present now?

 

>The Self, although it is beyond both the conscious and the

>unconscious, is not unconscious to It Self.

 

P: True to an extent. It senses itself thru the consciousness

of an organism.

 

" When beingness forgets itself, that state is Parabrahman.This knowingness is

not your true state, it is the outcome of the food essence body, and you, the

Absolute are not that "

 

Nisargadatta

 

Harsha>Certainly, the Self cannot be known as an object as it is the very

>innermost subject. But to say that it is unknowable is a mistake.

It Knows It Self fully without the medium of the mind. Its very

nature, Self-Nature being that of Pure Existence/Awareness-Knowledge-

>Bliss. That is the very best expression through the mind.

 

>Harsha

 

P: Harsha must be lurking somewhere, so let me see if he can

be enticed to post a reply.

 

P:Those who say The Self is knowable (I prefer This, That, Absolute etc.

Actually, Etc. is my favorite name for it. ) well those who say 'It' is

knowable don't know exactly the meaning of the word knowing. To know anything is

to

distinguish it from the rest, which mean differenciating a particular

identity. It means to recognize, which implies memory. Certainly the absolute,

the

Whole

can not find anything that it is not itself to compare and distinguish itself

from.

 

Now this doesn't mean consciousness cannot sense it. " This " can sense itself

via consciousness, but sensing, or intuition does not imply knowledge. There

comes a point when consciousness senses 'It' as beyond itself, senses that It

is there both in consciousness and unconsciousness.

 

Pete

" My True state is prior to consciousness. That state doesn't depend on

consciousness. "

 

" Awareness is not aware of its awareness. "

 

Nisargadatta

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> " Awareness is not aware of its awareness. "

>

> Nisargadatta

 

 

" Awareness has never been unaware of its awareness "

 

sk

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " sk000005 " <raav1@m...> wrote:

> > " Awareness is not aware of its awareness. "

> >

> > Nisargadatta

>

>

> " Awareness has never been unaware of its awareness "

>

> sk

 

Both of you are right, both of you are referring to

two different things, I think. He is using Awareness

as another name for the Absolute, and you are referring

to the function, I think. What Maharaj is referring to,

is that the Absolute doesn't keep track of its awareness,

it's awareness vanishes moment to moment without a trace,

so there is no room for self-awareness.

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

P:Those who say The Self is knowable (I prefer This, That, Absolute etc.

Actually, Etc. is my favorite name for it. ) well those who say 'It' is

knowable don't know exactly the meaning of the word knowing. To know anything is

to distinguish it from the rest, which mean differenciating a particular

identity. It means to recognize, which implies memory. Certainly the absolute,

the Whole

can not find anything that it is not itself to compare and distinguish itself

from.

 

Now this doesn't mean consciousness cannot sense it. " This " can sense itself via

consciousness, but sensing, or intuition does not imply knowledge. There comes a

point when consciousness senses 'It' as beyond itself, senses that It is there

both in consciousness and unconsciousness.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

My take on Harsh's comment was very similar, in that,

" It Knows It Self fully without the medium of the mind, "

I take as a different kind of knowing than the

more common usage. But there is an intransitive meaning

for " know " :

To be cognizant or aware.

 

The intransive use does not require an object. I.e.

" To be connizant or aware " in the intransitive sense

does not come with an " of " attached. There *is no object*.

 

In terms of Nisargadatta's parlance, Consciousness is

Being. The pure Beingness of Consciousness is, as I take

it, a kind of " knowing " in the intransitive sense.

 

Bill

 

from dictionary.com:

 

know

v. knew, (n, ny) known, (nn) know·ing, knows

v. tr.

To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.

To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won't fail.

To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in:

knows how to cook.

To have fixed in the mind: knows her Latin verbs.

To have experience of: " a black stubble that had known no razor " (William

Faulkner).

 

To perceive as familiar; recognize: I know that face.

To be acquainted with: He doesn't know his neighbors.

To be able to distinguish; recognize as distinct: knows right from wrong.

To discern the character or nature of: knew him for a liar.

Archaic. To have sexual intercourse with.

 

v. intr.

To possess knowledge, understanding, or information.

To be cognizant or aware.