Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Hi again, > <We can see that time as being change in the moment is the major doer. > > > No, time does not and cannot do anything, it is a layering that we GIVE to reality. <I talk about time here as change. The present moment becomes new in each instant, an that change is what I call time.> Ok. <It is the total process of change itself I call time. And my guess is that this change is all the change there is. A person cannot alter time, cannot make time speed up or slow down.> Time is 'run' by times arrows which we give to time also, therefore time *can* and does slow down and move faster. <Time creates Universes. Time created you. Time creates your body, brain, mind, thoughts, feelings, why not even you choices? The definition used here: Time = the process of change in the moment.> No, time creates nothing. The only thing that does create and *can* create is mind / consciousness. > <but it seems to me that no individual person > can change the Universe by himself or herself.> > > This infinitude of doers is what makes the universe what it is moment by moment. <Yes! Now we are getting somewhere. Everything in an infinite complex wholeness where everything is connected to everything else.> Yes. > <It seems to me that > real choice can only exist if the person making the choice actually > alter the course of the Universe by using personal volition.> > > Yes, and that is exactly what happens. <Ok, good luck with altering the course of the Universe. :-) Don't forget to tell Time to move its ass your way so that the future can happen according to your will.> There is no such thing as time. <Don't forget to tell Time to create the thoughts you want to have, in order for you to have free will.> You are giving reality to time, it simply does not exist as a 'something real'. But, you are altering IT ( the universe ) now, making it what it is now. > No, time depends on change and not the other way around <We can say that change itself is time.> Change or comparison to movement in space <Yes, there are Sages who say that there is neither free will or not free will. I myself think of the Universe as an automatic Matrix " made " of pure consciousness without size, substance or form, and that this indestructible Matrix has infinite " computing " power, and even thought running as an automatic machine, the capacity of it is so great that it can easily simulate personal free will with infinite precision. :-) This Matrix can create an infinite number of Universes in the time of zero seconds. That should be free will enough for you. ;-)> There both is and isn't free will in the way we think of it and it is only perspective that seperates the two. I think you are thinking too much at least space age terms of movies Scott. For fun, check out: http://www.2012.com.au/real_matrix.html Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , Scott Andersen <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > <We can see that time as being change in the moment is the major > doer. > > > > > No, time does not and cannot do anything, it is a layering that we > GIVE to reality. > > <I talk about time here as change. The present moment becomes new in > each instant, an that change is what I call time.> > > Ok. > > <It is the total > process of change itself I call time. And my guess is that this > change is all the change there is. A person cannot alter time, cannot > make time speed up or slow down.> > > > > Time is 'run' by times arrows which we give to time also, therefore time *can* and does slow down and move faster. > > <Time creates Universes. Time created you. Time > creates your body, brain, mind, thoughts, feelings, why not even you > choices? The definition used here: Time = the process of change in > the moment.> > > No, time creates nothing. > > The only thing that does create and *can* create is mind / consciousness. Yes, I have thought about that. The Source for everything new comes from the zone between the material world and consciousness. And in reality the material world and consciousness are connected and are thus not two. This wholeness we experience is being recreated all the time and the very Source for this recreation is ourselves. > > > > <but it seems to me that no individual person > > can change the Universe by himself or herself.> > > > > This infinitude of doers is what makes the universe what it is > moment by moment. > > <Yes! Now we are getting somewhere. Everything in an infinite complex > wholeness where everything is connected to everything else.> > > > > Yes. > > > > <It seems to me that > > real choice can only exist if the person making the choice actually > > alter the course of the Universe by using personal volition.> > > > > Yes, and that is exactly what happens. > > <Ok, good luck with altering the course of the Universe. :-) Don't > forget to tell Time to move its ass your way so that the future can > happen according to your will.> > > > > There is no such thing as time. > > > > <Don't forget to tell Time to create > the thoughts you want to have, in order for you to have free will.> > > You are giving reality to time, it simply does not exist as a 'something real'. > > But, you are altering IT ( the universe ) now, making it what it is now. > > > > No, time depends on change and not the other way around > > <We can say that change itself is time.> > > Change or comparison to movement in space > > > > <Yes, there are Sages who say that there is neither free will or not > free will. I myself think of the Universe as an automatic Matrix " made " of pure consciousness without size, substance or form, > and that this indestructible Matrix has infinite " computing " power, > and even thought running as an automatic machine, the capacity of it > is so great that it can easily simulate personal free will with > infinite precision. :-) This Matrix can create an infinite number of > Universes in the time of zero seconds. That should be free will > enough for you. ;-)> > > There both is and isn't free will in the way we think of it and it is only perspective that seperates the two. > > I think you are thinking too much at least space age terms of movies The funny thing is that the idea that the Source of all manifestation comes from the zone between the material world and consciousness is readily verifiable scientifically. The further away from you material stuff is, the further away in time it is. And what is closest to you is your awareness, consciousness. And that is where the action is, that's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. That's where the future is being created. /AL > > Scott. > > > > For fun, check out: > > http://www.2012.com.au/real_matrix.html > > > > > > > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Hi again, <Yes, I have thought about that. The Source for everything new comes from the zone between the material world and consciousness.> Where is this source? <And in reality the material world and consciousness are connected and are thus not two.> What is material? Is material different to mind, is mind different to matter? <This wholeness we experience is being recreated all the time and the very Source for this recreation is ourselves> It is changing all the time because of the infinite interactions. <The further away from you material stuff is, the further away in time it is.> You are here talking about *times arrows*, or how time appears to us, not the illusionary thing called time which really does not exist anyway <And what is closest to you is your awareness, consciousness. And that is where the action is, that's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. That's where the future is being created.> There is no action, here. Awareness has no volition. Scott. Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , Scott Andersen <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > <Yes, I have thought about that. The Source for everything new comes > from the zone between the material world and consciousness.> > > Where is this source? In you! It matters not if it is the " material world " that creates the Source or if it is consciousness that creates the Source, the _fact_ is that you are aware of the world. You are aware of the images and thoughts created in your brain/body and that awareness is consciousness. Now, the physical matter goes from your awareness to your brain cells, to your sense organs, to the computer screen in front of you, to the cars and people on the street outside your window, to the sun, to the stars in the Milky Way, to other galaxies and so on. The further from your awareness material stuff is, be it brain cells, optic nerve cells, platic molecules in your computer screen, iron atoms in the Porche outside your window, the further away in time they have been created. They are probably created now, but the time-track, the history of creation, even if created instantly in this now, goes beginning from your awareness and out to the stars and galaxies in the universe. So, the future, where will the future be generated? The answer is that the future will be generated where the time-track begins, and the time-track begins at your awareness, you consciousness. We can also say that the future could possibly be created simultaneously everywhere in the Universe, but that does not change the fact that you will remain zero seconds from the Source. The star you behold in the sky is _not_ zero seconds from the Source. Well, if everything happens simultaneously, then the star you behold is also zero seconds from the Source, but the _apparent_ time track is still that the star is light years away from you. In _your_ universe you are the Source. In _my_ universe, I am the Source. > > > > <And in > reality the material world and consciousness are connected and are > thus not two.> > > What is material? > > Is material different to mind, is mind different to matter? > > <This wholeness we experience is being recreated all the > time and the very Source for this recreation is ourselves> > > It is changing all the time because of the infinite interactions. > > > <The further away from you material > stuff is, the further away in time it is.> > > You are here talking about *times arrows*, or how time appears to us, not the illusionary thing called time which really does not exist anyway I am talking about things like " It takes 8 minutes for the light from the sun to reach the earth " . > > <And what is closest to you > is your awareness, consciousness. And that is where the action is, > that's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. That's where the > future is being created.> > > There is no action, here. > > Awareness has no volition. > > Scott. No action? Look around you, and what do you see, laywers, businessmen, children, parents, trees, bicycles, flowers, buildings. You can feel the wind blowing, the sun shining, thoughts appearing like out of nowhere, and all this in your mind. You don't see directly with your eyes, you see indirectly via your visual cortext in your brain, and like magic you are _aware_ of the action happening all the time in your mind. When you see a star in the sky, the light from that star has already been created in the star years ago, it is a dead past, a dead past cannot bring any action. Only in your present awareness is action created. /AL > > > > > > > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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