Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " Adi Da Samraj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > Adi Da Samraj And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life itself. When you say or write something, you given an advice or help someone, or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then know that it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and all you see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already been painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is happening is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you have and can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate with the past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by the Painter. In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear you, because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and how can the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, inluding your communication with the world. The apparent communication going on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a part of a picture that has already been painted. When you look at a star, what you see has already been painted, often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person has already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your own talking going on, that talking has already happened nanoseconds ago. Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only the PAST. A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, and the Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... whatever it is u paint, it's only u... we r all u... me 2... there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely blind ignorance... the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... it's all there is... pure being consciousness bliss yours danananda Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life itself. > When you say or write something, you given an advice or help someone, > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then know that > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and all you > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already been > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is happening > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you have and > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate with the > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by the > Painter. > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear you, > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and how can > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, inluding > your communication with the world. The apparent communication going > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a part of > a picture that has already been painted. > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been painted, > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person has > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your own > talking going on, that talking has already happened nanoseconds ago. > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only the PAST. > A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, and the > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > we r all u... me 2... > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely blind > ignorance... > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > it's all there is... > > pure being > > consciousness > > bliss > > yours > > danananda The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) is what life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. The formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very moment. Just as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come alive on the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is like the material world, always lifeless in itself but with the appearance of motion. /AL > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life itself. > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or help > someone, > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then know that > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and all you > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already been > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is > happening > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you have and > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate with the > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by the > > Painter. > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear you, > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and how > can > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, inluding > > your communication with the world. The apparent communication going > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a part > of > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been painted, > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person has > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your own > > talking going on, that talking has already happened nanoseconds > ago. > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only the > PAST. > > A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, and > the > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 it's all me... whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am u can paint... if u want to paint, paint... run, paint, run run... u got hot paint & your having fun... your paintananda Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely blind > > ignorance... > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > it's all there is... > > > > pure being > > > > consciousness > > > > bliss > > > > yours > > > > danananda > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) is what > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. The > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very moment. Just > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come alive on > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is like the > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the appearance of > motion. > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life > itself. > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or help > > someone, > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then know > that > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and all > you > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already been > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is > > happening > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you have > and > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate with > the > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by the > > > Painter. > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear you, > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and how > > can > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, inluding > > > your communication with the world. The apparent communication > going > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a part > > of > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been painted, > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person has > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your own > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened nanoseconds > > ago. > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only the > > PAST. > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, and > > the > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > it's all me... > > whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am > > > u can paint... > > if u want to paint, paint... > > > run, paint, run run... > > u got hot paint & your having fun... > > > > your > > paintananda The world is a single painting, it has to be painted as One. In a single stroke all the trees and the birds, the people, buildings, oceans, the moon, the sun, and the stars, not to forget one's own body and mind, has to be painted in that simultaneous stroke. I don't think " me " as the ego can do that. :-) /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely > blind > > > ignorance... > > > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > > > it's all there is... > > > > > > pure being > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > bliss > > > > > > yours > > > > > > danananda > > > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) is > what > > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. The > > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very moment. > Just > > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come alive on > > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is like > the > > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the appearance > of > > motion. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life > > itself. > > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or help > > > someone, > > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then know > > that > > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and all > > you > > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already been > > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is > > > happening > > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you have > > and > > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate with > > the > > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by the > > > > Painter. > > > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do > > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear > you, > > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and > how > > > can > > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, > inluding > > > > your communication with the world. The apparent communication > > going > > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a > part > > > of > > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been painted, > > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person has > > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your > own > > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened nanoseconds > > > ago. > > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only > the > > > PAST. > > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, > and > > > the > > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Hi again, <<The world is a single painting, it has to be painted as One. In a single stroke all the trees and the birds, the people, buildings, oceans, the moon, the sun, and the stars, <<not to forget one's own body and mind,>> Who owns the body and mind? Scott. Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , Scott Andersen <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > <<The world is a single painting, it has to be painted as One. In a > single stroke all the trees and the birds, the people, buildings, > oceans, the moon, the sun, and the stars, <<not to forget one's own > body and mind,>> > > Who owns the body and mind? > > Scott. Impersonal awareness is the experiencer of what happens. Just as when you are watching a movie and see a nice car in it, then can you tell me, who owns that car? The car is just an appearance of light on the movie screen. Similarly the body, mind, trees and clouds in the " real " world is just a temporary quatum state without any separate existence of its own. The world is not " solid " it only appears to be. /AL > > > > > > > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Hi again, Well said! <Impersonal awareness is the experiencer of what happens. Just as when you are watching a movie and see a nice car in it, then can you tell me, who owns that car? The car is just an appearance of light on the movie screen. Similarly the body, mind, trees and clouds in the " real " world is just a temporary quatum state without any separate existence of its own. The world is not " solid " it only appears to be.> > > > > > > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 I have a major problem with this painting business. Normal people cannot create a universe, they aren't smart enough. They couldn't design the DNA of a Wilderbeest or the structure of a crystal to save their lives. God created (and creates) the universe. If a human being is part of the totality, it is an infinitesimally small part. All fragments of a hologram contain the whole image, however the smaller the fragment, the less distinct the image of the whole is. If " I am that " is all there is to say, then God is missing from the picture. An Indian guru wouldn't make that mistake being steeped in a tradition of devotion, but for modern Western aetheistic minds, it is a very easy (and possibly deep) trap to fall into Eric Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > it's all me... > > whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am > > > u can paint... > > if u want to paint, paint... > > > run, paint, run run... > > u got hot paint & your having fun... > > > > your > > paintananda > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely > blind > > > ignorance... > > > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > > > it's all there is... > > > > > > pure being > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > bliss > > > > > > yours > > > > > > danananda > > > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) is > what > > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. The > > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very moment. > Just > > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come alive on > > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is like > the > > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the appearance > of > > motion. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life > > itself. > > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or help > > > someone, > > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then know > > that > > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and all > > you > > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already been > > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is > > > happening > > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you have > > and > > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate with > > the > > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by the > > > > Painter. > > > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do > > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear > you, > > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and > how > > > can > > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, > inluding > > > > your communication with the world. The apparent communication > > going > > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a > part > > > of > > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been painted, > > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person has > > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your > own > > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened nanoseconds > > > ago. > > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only > the > > > PAST. > > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, > and > > > the > > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > I have a major problem with this painting business. Normal people > cannot create a universe, they aren't smart enough. They couldn't > design the DNA of a Wilderbeest or the structure of a crystal to save > their lives. > > God created (and creates) the universe. If a human being is part of > the totality, it is an infinitesimally small part. All fragments of a > hologram contain the whole image, however the smaller the fragment, > the less distinct the image of the whole is. > > If " I am that " is all there is to say, then God is missing from the > picture. An Indian guru wouldn't make that mistake being steeped in a > tradition of devotion, but for modern Western aetheistic minds, it is > a very easy (and possibly deep) trap to fall into > > Eric Devotion is a way of maintaining a separation between " me " and " God " . Reducing the Universe to a machine while still being a " me " observing this idea from an atheistic viewpoint is also a separation between " me " and the " Mechanical universe " . My idea is that we as human beings have no intelligence at all. We are being _done_ by the Universe, and the experiencer of all this is also the Universe itself. Real understanding I believe can come with a mysical realization where the separation between " me " and " God/Universe " is removed by grace. " Only God can say, I am. " -- Meister Eckhart " Thou art the Doer, and Thou art the Experiencer. " -- Hindu religion about God according to Ramesh Balsekar " In order to be eternally saved, you must be willing to do without you. You have no you to _be_ saved. You only _think_ you do. Just consider yourself to be nobody, with no intelligence. No superiority _or_ inferiority. " -- Vernon Howard /AL > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > it's all me... > > > > whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am > > > > > > u can paint... > > > > if u want to paint, paint... > > > > > > run, paint, run run... > > > > u got hot paint & your having fun... > > > > > > > > your > > > > paintananda > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely > > blind > > > > ignorance... > > > > > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > > > > > it's all there is... > > > > > > > > pure being > > > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > > > bliss > > > > > > > > yours > > > > > > > > danananda > > > > > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) is > > what > > > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. The > > > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very moment. > > Just > > > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come alive > on > > > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is like > > the > > > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the appearance > > of > > > motion. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life > > > itself. > > > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or help > > > > someone, > > > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then > know > > > that > > > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and > all > > > you > > > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already > been > > > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is > > > > happening > > > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you > have > > > and > > > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate > with > > > the > > > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by > the > > > > > Painter. > > > > > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do > > > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear > > you, > > > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and > > how > > > > can > > > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, > > inluding > > > > > your communication with the world. The apparent communication > > > going > > > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a > > part > > > > of > > > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been > painted, > > > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person > has > > > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your > > own > > > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened > nanoseconds > > > > ago. > > > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only > > the > > > > PAST. > > > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, > > and > > > > the > > > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 " Real understanding I believe can come with a mysical realization where the separation between " me " and " God/Universe " is removed by grace. " Yes. I agree with that. The path is ultimately the union of the self with the Divine so that the two become one (like the divine lovers of Sufism and Christian mysticism). The drop merges with the ocean. And yes, it is through Grace that it happens. However, before the Union, there is seperation (even if it is ultimately illusory) and the various yogas are the means by which the seperation disappears. Here is something marahaj had to say about devotion " Turning to Ananda, he asked, " What kind of spiritual practice are you doing? " . I just go on thinking that I am the Supreme Being, " she replied in a somewhat proud tone. " Is that so? Did you ever hear of Meerabai? She was one of the greatest lady saints ever born in India. From her childhood she felt that Lord Krishna was her Beloved and spent most of her days and nights in worshipping Him and singing songs about Him. Finally, she had a mystic vision of Him and her mind merged into Him. She thenceforth sang songs about the glory and bliss of the God-Realized state. At the end of her life, she entered a Krishna temple and disappeared in the sanctum. You should walk in the same path as her if you want to achieve the Realization, " Maharaj said smilingly. Ananda turned pale. Maharaj had pulverized her mountain of Vedanta in one stroke! She could not speak. I may talk about Vedanta to some of the people that come here, " Maharaj continued. " That is not for you and you should not pay any attention to what I am telling others. The book of my conversations should not be taken as the last word on my teachings. I have given answers to the questions of certain individuals. Those answers were intended for those people and not for everyone. Instruction can be on an individual basis only. The same medicine cannot be prescribed for all. " Nowadays people are full of intellectual conceit. They have no faith in the ancient traditional practices leading to Self- Knowledge. They want everything served to them on a silver platter. The path of knowledge makes sense to them and because of that, they may want to practice it. The will then find that it requires more concentration then they can muster and slowly becoming humble, they will finally take up easier practices like repetition of a mantra or worship of a form. Slowly the belief in a Power greater then themselves will dawn on them and a taste for devotion will sprout in their heart. Then only will it be possible for them to attain purity of mind and concentration. The conceited have to go a very roundabout way. Therefore I say that devotion is good enough for you, " Maharaj concluded. " http://nisargadatta.net/SwamiParamatmananda.html Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > > I have a major problem with this painting business. Normal people > > cannot create a universe, they aren't smart enough. They couldn't > > design the DNA of a Wilderbeest or the structure of a crystal to > save > > their lives. > > > > God created (and creates) the universe. If a human being is part of > > the totality, it is an infinitesimally small part. All fragments of > a > > hologram contain the whole image, however the smaller the fragment, > > the less distinct the image of the whole is. > > > > If " I am that " is all there is to say, then God is missing from the > > picture. An Indian guru wouldn't make that mistake being steeped in > a > > tradition of devotion, but for modern Western aetheistic minds, it > is > > a very easy (and possibly deep) trap to fall into > > > > Eric > > Devotion is a way of maintaining a separation between " me " and " God " . > Reducing the Universe to a machine while still being a " me " observing > this idea from an atheistic viewpoint is also a separation > between " me " and the " Mechanical universe " . > > My idea is that we as human beings have no intelligence at all. We > are being _done_ by the Universe, and the experiencer of all this is > also the Universe itself. Real understanding I believe can come with > a mysical realization where the separation between " me " > and " God/Universe " is removed by grace. > > " Only God can say, I am. " -- Meister Eckhart > > " Thou art the Doer, and Thou art the Experiencer. " -- Hindu religion > about God according to Ramesh Balsekar > > " In order to be eternally saved, you must be willing to do without > you. You have no you to _be_ saved. You only _think_ you do. Just > consider yourself to be nobody, with no intelligence. No superiority > _or_ inferiority. " -- Vernon Howard > > /AL > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > it's all me... > > > > > > whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am > > > > > > > > > u can paint... > > > > > > if u want to paint, paint... > > > > > > > > > run, paint, run run... > > > > > > u got hot paint & your having fun... > > > > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > paintananda > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > > > > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > > > > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > > > > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > > > > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely > > > blind > > > > > ignorance... > > > > > > > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > > > > > > > it's all there is... > > > > > > > > > > pure being > > > > > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > > > > > bliss > > > > > > > > > > yours > > > > > > > > > > danananda > > > > > > > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) > is > > > what > > > > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. The > > > > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very moment. > > > Just > > > > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come > alive > > on > > > > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is > like > > > the > > > > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the > appearance > > > of > > > > motion. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life > > > > itself. > > > > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or > help > > > > > someone, > > > > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then > > know > > > > that > > > > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and > > all > > > > you > > > > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already > > been > > > > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is > > > > > happening > > > > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you > > have > > > > and > > > > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate > > with > > > > the > > > > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by > > the > > > > > > Painter. > > > > > > > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or > do > > > > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever > hear > > > you, > > > > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, > and > > > how > > > > > can > > > > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, > > > inluding > > > > > > your communication with the world. The apparent > communication > > > > going > > > > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is > a > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been > > painted, > > > > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person > > has > > > > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe > your > > > own > > > > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened > > nanoseconds > > > > > ago. > > > > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is > only > > > the > > > > > PAST. > > > > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things > happening, > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > " Real understanding I believe can come with > a mysical realization where the separation between " me " > and " God/Universe " is removed by grace. " > > Yes. I agree with that. The path is ultimately the union of the self > with the Divine so that the two become one (like the divine lovers of > Sufism and Christian mysticism). The drop merges with the ocean. And > yes, it is through Grace that it happens. > > However, before the Union, there is seperation (even if it is > ultimately illusory) and the various yogas are the means by which the > seperation disappears. > > > Here is something marahaj had to say about devotion > > " Turning to Ananda, he asked, " What kind of spiritual practice are > you doing? " . I just go on thinking that I am the Supreme Being, " she > replied in a somewhat proud tone. > > " Is that so? Did you ever hear of Meerabai? She was one of the > greatest lady saints ever born in India. From her childhood she felt > that Lord Krishna was her Beloved and spent most of her days and > nights in worshipping Him and singing songs about Him. Finally, she > had a mystic vision of Him and her mind merged into Him. She > thenceforth sang songs about the glory and bliss of the God- Realized > state. At the end of her life, she entered a Krishna temple and > disappeared in the sanctum. You should walk in the same path as her > if you want to achieve the Realization, " Maharaj said smilingly. > > Ananda turned pale. Maharaj had pulverized her mountain of Vedanta in > one stroke! She could not speak. > I may talk about Vedanta to some of the people that come here, " > Maharaj continued. " That is not for you and you should not pay any > attention to what I am telling others. The book of my conversations > should not be taken as the last word on my teachings. I have given > answers to the questions of certain individuals. Those answers were > intended for those people and not for everyone. Instruction can be > on an individual basis only. The same medicine cannot be prescribed > for all. > > " Nowadays people are full of intellectual conceit. They have no > faith in the ancient traditional practices leading to Self- > Knowledge. They want everything served to them on a silver platter. > The path of knowledge makes sense to them and because of that, they > may want to practice it. The will then find that it requires more > concentration then they can muster and slowly becoming humble, they > will finally take up easier practices like repetition of a mantra or > worship of a form. Slowly the belief in a Power greater then > themselves will dawn on them and a taste for devotion will sprout in > their heart. Then only will it be possible for them to attain purity > of mind and concentration. The conceited have to go a very > roundabout way. Therefore I say that devotion is good enough for > you, " Maharaj concluded. " > > > http://nisargadatta.net/SwamiParamatmananda.html I think spiritual practices are good. The paths to the goal are many but the goal itself must be one. Everything is interconnected. If all things were not interconnected then they would not be a part of this existence! Even the idea " I do this practice " is good because the idea of doing something is there for a reason I believe. I don't believe in chance. My practice at the moment is to see myself as this moment unbroken, not split up in past, present and future. Of course, past and future is in my mind, but I try to stay in the solid moment and not identify myself with the clouds in my mind called past and future. /AL > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > > > I have a major problem with this painting business. Normal > people > > > cannot create a universe, they aren't smart enough. They couldn't > > > design the DNA of a Wilderbeest or the structure of a crystal to > > save > > > their lives. > > > > > > God created (and creates) the universe. If a human being is part > of > > > the totality, it is an infinitesimally small part. All fragments > of > > a > > > hologram contain the whole image, however the smaller the > fragment, > > > the less distinct the image of the whole is. > > > > > > If " I am that " is all there is to say, then God is missing from > the > > > picture. An Indian guru wouldn't make that mistake being steeped > in > > a > > > tradition of devotion, but for modern Western aetheistic minds, > it > > is > > > a very easy (and possibly deep) trap to fall into > > > > > > Eric > > > > Devotion is a way of maintaining a separation between " me " > and " God " . > > Reducing the Universe to a machine while still being a " me " > observing > > this idea from an atheistic viewpoint is also a separation > > between " me " and the " Mechanical universe " . > > > > My idea is that we as human beings have no intelligence at all. We > > are being _done_ by the Universe, and the experiencer of all this > is > > also the Universe itself. Real understanding I believe can come > with > > a mysical realization where the separation between " me " > > and " God/Universe " is removed by grace. > > > > " Only God can say, I am. " -- Meister Eckhart > > > > " Thou art the Doer, and Thou art the Experiencer. " -- Hindu > religion > > about God according to Ramesh Balsekar > > > > " In order to be eternally saved, you must be willing to do without > > you. You have no you to _be_ saved. You only _think_ you do. Just > > consider yourself to be nobody, with no intelligence. No > superiority > > _or_ inferiority. " -- Vernon Howard > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > it's all me... > > > > > > > > whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am > > > > > > > > > > > > u can paint... > > > > > > > > if u want to paint, paint... > > > > > > > > > > > > run, paint, run run... > > > > > > > > u got hot paint & your having fun... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > paintananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > > > > > > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > > > > > > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > > > > > > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > > > > > > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is > merely > > > > blind > > > > > > ignorance... > > > > > > > > > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > > > > > > > > > it's all there is... > > > > > > > > > > > > pure being > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > bliss > > > > > > > > > > > > yours > > > > > > > > > > > > danananda > > > > > > > > > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) > > is > > > > what > > > > > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. > The > > > > > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very > moment. > > > > Just > > > > > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come > > alive > > > on > > > > > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is > > like > > > > the > > > > > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the > > appearance > > > > of > > > > > motion. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by > life > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or > > help > > > > > > someone, > > > > > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then > > > know > > > > > that > > > > > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, > and > > > all > > > > > you > > > > > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already > > > been > > > > > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that > is > > > > > > happening > > > > > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that > you > > > have > > > > > and > > > > > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but > by > > > the > > > > > > > Painter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say > or > > do > > > > > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever > > hear > > > > you, > > > > > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, > > and > > > > how > > > > > > can > > > > > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, > > > > inluding > > > > > > > your communication with the world. The apparent > > communication > > > > > going > > > > > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, > is > > a > > > > part > > > > > > of > > > > > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been > > > painted, > > > > > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that > person > > > has > > > > > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe > > your > > > > own > > > > > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened > > > nanoseconds > > > > > > ago. > > > > > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is > > only > > > > the > > > > > > PAST. > > > > > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things > > happening, > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 i aint talking about the ego, AL... i'm talking about me.... do u know who am i??? what did guru deva nisargadatta maharaj say? he said see who am i & then everything gonna be alright... didn't u read the book? Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > The world is a single painting, it has to be painted as One. In a > single stroke all the trees and the birds, the people, buildings, > oceans, the moon, the sun, and the stars, not to forget one's own > body and mind, has to be painted in that simultaneous stroke. I don't > think " me " as the ego can do that. :-) > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 some people like to paint, some don't... it isn't the " normal people " that create the universe... it is that which perceives a " universe " who painted it... tell me... have u ever seen a universe??? u say your " god is missing from the picture " ... say? which god was it??? there r so many gods & goddesses these days, it is easy for one's own to get lost in the crowd... " god " is a concept (among others) by which to re-present THAT yours danananda Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > I have a major problem with this painting business. Normal people > cannot create a universe, they aren't smart enough. They couldn't > design the DNA of a Wilderbeest or the structure of a crystal to save > their lives. > > God created (and creates) the universe. If a human being is part of > the totality, it is an infinitesimally small part. All fragments of a > hologram contain the whole image, however the smaller the fragment, > the less distinct the image of the whole is. > > If " I am that " is all there is to say, then God is missing from the > picture. An Indian guru wouldn't make that mistake being steeped in a > tradition of devotion, but for modern Western aetheistic minds, it is > a very easy (and possibly deep) trap to fall into > > Eric > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > it's all me... > > > > whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am > > > > > > u can paint... > > > > if u want to paint, paint... > > > > > > run, paint, run run... > > > > u got hot paint & your having fun... > > > > > > > > your > > > > paintananda > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is merely > > blind > > > > ignorance... > > > > > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > > > > > it's all there is... > > > > > > > > pure being > > > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > > > bliss > > > > > > > > yours > > > > > > > > danananda > > > > > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) is > > what > > > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. The > > > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very moment. > > Just > > > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come alive > on > > > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is like > > the > > > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the appearance > > of > > > motion. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by life > > > itself. > > > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or help > > > > someone, > > > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then > know > > > that > > > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, and > all > > > you > > > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already > been > > > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that is > > > > happening > > > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that you > have > > > and > > > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate > with > > > the > > > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but by > the > > > > > Painter. > > > > > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say or do > > > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever hear > > you, > > > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, and > > how > > > > can > > > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, > > inluding > > > > > your communication with the world. The apparent communication > > > going > > > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, is a > > part > > > > of > > > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been > painted, > > > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that person > has > > > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe your > > own > > > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened > nanoseconds > > > > ago. > > > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is only > > the > > > > PAST. > > > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things happening, > > and > > > > the > > > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 that is awesome!!! i bow graciously to the maharaj yours danananda Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > " Real understanding I believe can come with > a mysical realization where the separation between " me " > and " God/Universe " is removed by grace. " > > Yes. I agree with that. The path is ultimately the union of the self > with the Divine so that the two become one (like the divine lovers of > Sufism and Christian mysticism). The drop merges with the ocean. And > yes, it is through Grace that it happens. > > However, before the Union, there is seperation (even if it is > ultimately illusory) and the various yogas are the means by which the > seperation disappears. > > > Here is something marahaj had to say about devotion > > " Turning to Ananda, he asked, " What kind of spiritual practice are > you doing? " . I just go on thinking that I am the Supreme Being, " she > replied in a somewhat proud tone. > > " Is that so? Did you ever hear of Meerabai? She was one of the > greatest lady saints ever born in India. From her childhood she felt > that Lord Krishna was her Beloved and spent most of her days and > nights in worshipping Him and singing songs about Him. Finally, she > had a mystic vision of Him and her mind merged into Him. She > thenceforth sang songs about the glory and bliss of the God- Realized > state. At the end of her life, she entered a Krishna temple and > disappeared in the sanctum. You should walk in the same path as her > if you want to achieve the Realization, " Maharaj said smilingly. > > Ananda turned pale. Maharaj had pulverized her mountain of Vedanta in > one stroke! She could not speak. > I may talk about Vedanta to some of the people that come here, " > Maharaj continued. " That is not for you and you should not pay any > attention to what I am telling others. The book of my conversations > should not be taken as the last word on my teachings. I have given > answers to the questions of certain individuals. Those answers were > intended for those people and not for everyone. Instruction can be > on an individual basis only. The same medicine cannot be prescribed > for all. > > " Nowadays people are full of intellectual conceit. They have no > faith in the ancient traditional practices leading to Self- > Knowledge. They want everything served to them on a silver platter. > The path of knowledge makes sense to them and because of that, they > may want to practice it. The will then find that it requires more > concentration then they can muster and slowly becoming humble, they > will finally take up easier practices like repetition of a mantra or > worship of a form. Slowly the belief in a Power greater then > themselves will dawn on them and a taste for devotion will sprout in > their heart. Then only will it be possible for them to attain purity > of mind and concentration. The conceited have to go a very > roundabout way. Therefore I say that devotion is good enough for > you, " Maharaj concluded. " > > > http://nisargadatta.net/SwamiParamatmananda.html > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > > > I have a major problem with this painting business. Normal > people > > > cannot create a universe, they aren't smart enough. They couldn't > > > design the DNA of a Wilderbeest or the structure of a crystal to > > save > > > their lives. > > > > > > God created (and creates) the universe. If a human being is part > of > > > the totality, it is an infinitesimally small part. All fragments > of > > a > > > hologram contain the whole image, however the smaller the > fragment, > > > the less distinct the image of the whole is. > > > > > > If " I am that " is all there is to say, then God is missing from > the > > > picture. An Indian guru wouldn't make that mistake being steeped > in > > a > > > tradition of devotion, but for modern Western aetheistic minds, > it > > is > > > a very easy (and possibly deep) trap to fall into > > > > > > Eric > > > > Devotion is a way of maintaining a separation between " me " > and " God " . > > Reducing the Universe to a machine while still being a " me " > observing > > this idea from an atheistic viewpoint is also a separation > > between " me " and the " Mechanical universe " . > > > > My idea is that we as human beings have no intelligence at all. We > > are being _done_ by the Universe, and the experiencer of all this > is > > also the Universe itself. Real understanding I believe can come > with > > a mysical realization where the separation between " me " > > and " God/Universe " is removed by grace. > > > > " Only God can say, I am. " -- Meister Eckhart > > > > " Thou art the Doer, and Thou art the Experiencer. " -- Hindu > religion > > about God according to Ramesh Balsekar > > > > " In order to be eternally saved, you must be willing to do without > > you. You have no you to _be_ saved. You only _think_ you do. Just > > consider yourself to be nobody, with no intelligence. No > superiority > > _or_ inferiority. " -- Vernon Howard > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > it's all me... > > > > > > > > whatever it may be, it's still me... i am that i am > > > > > > > > > > > > u can paint... > > > > > > > > if u want to paint, paint... > > > > > > > > > > > > run, paint, run run... > > > > > > > > u got hot paint & your having fun... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > paintananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > yeah... it's me painting... i painted u 2... > > > > > > > > > > > > this past u paint... it's just u dreaming... > > > > > > > > > > > > whatever it is u paint, it's only u... > > > > > > > > > > > > we r all u... me 2... > > > > > > > > > > > > there's nothing 2 do... any effort in any direction is > merely > > > > blind > > > > > > ignorance... > > > > > > > > > > > > the self is inconceivable... it is beyond wor(l)ds... > > > > > > > > > > > > it's all there is... > > > > > > > > > > > > pure being > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > bliss > > > > > > > > > > > > yours > > > > > > > > > > > > danananda > > > > > > > > > > The Painter is the supplier of life. The painting (the world) > > is > > > > what > > > > > life _looks_ like, but what is of form is not life itself. > The > > > > > formless Painter in your own heart is life in this very > moment. > > > > Just > > > > > as the film projector - the energy that makes a movie come > > alive > > > on > > > > > the screen - is like the Source, the movie on the screen is > > like > > > > the > > > > > material world, always lifeless in itself but with the > > appearance > > > > of > > > > > motion. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > > > > > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adi Da Samraj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And we are not the painters, we are being *painted* by > life > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > When you say or write something, you given an advice or > > help > > > > > > someone, > > > > > > > or even say a nasty thing to someone or to yourself, then > > > know > > > > > that > > > > > > > it is not you doing anything, you are being *painted*, > and > > > all > > > > > you > > > > > > > see is only the past, all you can be aware of has already > > > been > > > > > > > painted! So when you communicate with the world all that > is > > > > > > happening > > > > > > > is that you observe a past that contains the idea that > you > > > have > > > > > and > > > > > > > can communicate. But you see, the past cannot communicate > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > past. The past has already been painted, not by you, but > by > > > the > > > > > > > Painter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In our infinite pride we think that we actually can say > or > > do > > > > > > > anything. You can scream and shout but no one will ever > > hear > > > > you, > > > > > > > because all you can be aware of is always only the past, > > and > > > > how > > > > > > can > > > > > > > the past hear you? The picture has already been painted, > > > > inluding > > > > > > > your communication with the world. The apparent > > communication > > > > > going > > > > > > > on, between other people, between you and someone else, > is > > a > > > > part > > > > > > of > > > > > > > a picture that has already been painted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you look at a star, what you see has already been > > > painted, > > > > > > > often " years " ago. When you see another person, that > person > > > has > > > > > > > already been painted, microseconds ago. When you observe > > your > > > > own > > > > > > > talking going on, that talking has already happened > > > nanoseconds > > > > > > ago. > > > > > > > Your awareness is what is NOW, what you are aware of is > > only > > > > the > > > > > > PAST. > > > > > > > A changing past contains the appearance of things > > happening, > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Painter changes the past. You can never change the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Creation in the physical world takes knowledge and skill. Human beings do it every day. The Being who created the universe we see had unimaginable skill and knowledge. have u ever seen a universe??? Not a whole one, just a big part through a telescope (hubble) " u say your " god is missing from the picture " ... say? which god was it??? there r so many gods & goddesses these days, it is easy for one's own to get lost in the crowd... " I didn't say my God, I don't have a God, I sold Him last year on ebay to a guy from Sweden who had a few prayers he wanted answering. I got positive feedback, so I assume he got what he needed. " " god " is a concept (among others) by which to re-present THAT " " THAT " is a concept among others) by which to re-present God Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > some people like to paint, some don't... > > it isn't the " normal people " that create the universe... it is that > which perceives a " universe " who painted it... tell me... have u ever > seen a universe??? > > u say your " god is missing from the picture " ... say? which god was > it??? there r so many gods & goddesses these days, it is easy for > one's own to get lost in the crowd... > > " god " is a concept (among others) by which to re-present THAT > > yours > > danananda > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > i aint talking about the ego, AL... i'm talking about me.... do u > know who am i??? what did guru deva nisargadatta maharaj say? he said > see who am i & then everything gonna be alright... didn't u read the > book? You are the Source. :-) Yes, I have read " I am That " . I can't say that I found something in it against my logic. Still, I am still experienceing myself as a body separate from the world and with a mind separate from other people. But I also know that somehow I am the Source, because without that Source what would I be? And nothing in this world is really separate. /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > The world is a single painting, it has to be painted as One. In a > > single stroke all the trees and the birds, the people, buildings, > > oceans, the moon, the sun, and the stars, not to forget one's own > > body and mind, has to be painted in that simultaneous stroke. I > don't > > think " me " as the ego can do that. :-) > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > Creation in the physical world takes knowledge and skill. Human > beings do it every day. The Being who created the universe we see had > unimaginable skill and knowledge. I think personal knowledge and skill are not needed for creation to happen. The unimaginable skill and knowledge is still going on, or to be more correct, has probably never been anywhere other than Now (there past is just an idea in the Now). The personal skill and knowledge in a human being is just a shadow of the real Doer observed by the human mind believing it to be his or her personal skill and knowledge. Freedom from the known, is freedom from a false sense of personal doership. /AL > > > have u ever seen a universe??? > > Not a whole one, just a big part through a telescope (hubble) > > > " u say your " god is missing from the picture " ... say? which god was > it??? there r so many gods & goddesses these days, it is easy for > one's own to get lost in the crowd... " > > I didn't say my God, I don't have a God, I sold Him last year on ebay > to a guy from Sweden who had a few prayers he wanted answering. I got > positive feedback, so I assume he got what he needed. > > " " god " is a concept (among others) by which to re-present THAT " > > " THAT " is a concept among others) by which to re-present God > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > some people like to paint, some don't... > > > > it isn't the " normal people " that create the universe... it is that > > which perceives a " universe " who painted it... tell me... have u > ever > > seen a universe??? > > > > u say your " god is missing from the picture " ... say? which god was > > it??? there r so many gods & goddesses these days, it is easy for > > one's own to get lost in the crowd... > > > > " god " is a concept (among others) by which to re-present THAT > > > > yours > > > > danananda > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 really, i aint even the source... i'm beyond the source... i'm not any thing... the source is in me... whatever that is... i don't exist in time & space... i don't know what i am... nobody knows... it's unfathomable... mysterioso i understand what u r saying, tho... u still think u r in the body- mind.... this will hang u up... just meditate... sit in half lotus position or whatever style u do & remember that anything u can perceive is not u... keep doing that until u get down to your self only... it's a trip, man... keep doing it... it gets to be more & more comfortable... it's actually easy to do because it is your natural state, any way... you've just been conditioned since u were a child to think otherwise... eventually u see u r nothing but pure spirit or pure consciousness or whatever u wanna call it... it really aint anything.. it's exactly what u r... whatever that is... a body-mind is attached to u... until u realize the body-mind is in u & not the other way around, u will be successively re-born into a continuum of body-minds until u learn... that's what we r all here for... to learn... to understand yours danananda Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > You are the Source. :-) > > Yes, I have read " I am That " . I can't say that I found something in > it against my logic. Still, I am still experienceing myself as a body > separate from the world and with a mind separate from other people. > > But I also know that somehow I am the Source, because without that > Source what would I be? And nothing in this world is really separate. > > /AL > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 LOL!!! yours danananda Nisargadatta , " erici44 " <erici44> wrote: > Creation in the physical world takes knowledge and skill. Human > beings do it every day. The Being who created the universe we see had > unimaginable skill and knowledge. > > > have u ever seen a universe??? > > Not a whole one, just a big part through a telescope (hubble) > > > " u say your " god is missing from the picture " ... say? which god was > it??? there r so many gods & goddesses these days, it is easy for > one's own to get lost in the crowd... " > > I didn't say my God, I don't have a God, I sold Him last year on ebay > to a guy from Sweden who had a few prayers he wanted answering. I got > positive feedback, so I assume he got what he needed. > > " " god " is a concept (among others) by which to re-present THAT " > > " THAT " is a concept among others) by which to re-present God > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > some people like to paint, some don't... > > > > it isn't the " normal people " that create the universe... it is that > > which perceives a " universe " who painted it... tell me... have u > ever > > seen a universe??? > > > > u say your " god is missing from the picture " ... say? which god was > > it??? there r so many gods & goddesses these days, it is easy for > > one's own to get lost in the crowd... > > > > " god " is a concept (among others) by which to re-present THAT > > > > yours > > > > danananda > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > really, i aint even the source... i'm beyond the source... i'm not > any thing... the source is in me... whatever that is... > > i don't exist in time & space... i don't know what i am... nobody > knows... it's unfathomable... mysterioso > > i understand what u r saying, tho... u still think u r in the body- > mind.... this will hang u up... just meditate... sit in half lotus > position or whatever style u do & remember that anything u can > perceive is not u... keep doing that until u get down to your self > only... it's a trip, man... keep doing it... it gets to be more & > more comfortable... it's actually easy to do because it is your > natural state, any way... you've just been conditioned since u were a > child to think otherwise... > > eventually u see u r nothing but pure spirit or pure consciousness or > whatever u wanna call it... it really aint anything.. it's exactly > what u r... whatever that is... a body-mind is attached to u... until > u realize the body-mind is in u & not the other way around, u will be > successively re-born into a continuum of body-minds until u learn... > that's what we r all here for... to learn... to understand > > yours > > danananda I sounds like you really do experience yourself as awareness. I want to experience that too! (me feeling like an envious child) :-) /AL > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > You are the Source. :-) > > > > Yes, I have read " I am That " . I can't say that I found something in > > it against my logic. Still, I am still experienceing myself as a > body > > separate from the world and with a mind separate from other people. > > > > But I also know that somehow I am the Source, because without that > > Source what would I be? And nothing in this world is really > separate. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 it's not even an experience... it's what makes experience possible... just do like i said in my last email & u will understand... actually, everything i said before is the same thing satguru sri nisargadatta maharaj said to do... any thing u can perceive is not u... so... just keep tracing it back until u find your self... & there u r... u were there all the time... u just kept mistaking your reflection in the mirror for reality... nothing reflected in the mind is reality... only u r real... just remember: nothing u perceive is u... it's fun to do, too... it's good & it's good 4 u... yours danananda p.s. understand this: " The seeker is he who is in search of himself. " Give up all questions except one: `Who am I?' After all, the only fact you are sure of is that you are. The `I am' is certain. The `I am this' is not. Struggle to find out what you are in reality. " To know what you are, you must first investigate and know what you are not. " Discover all that you are not -- body, feelings thoughts, time, space, this or that -- nothing, concrete or abstract, which you perceive can be you. The very act of perceiving shows that you are not what you perceive. " The clearer you understand on the level of mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker will you come to the end of your search and realise that you are the limitless being. " Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj (this is from the book " I Am That " ; it's on the page just before the beginning of chapter one) Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I sounds like you really do experience yourself as awareness. I want > to experience that too! (me feeling like an envious child) :-) > > /AL > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > <danananda2004> wrote: > > really, i aint even the source... i'm beyond the source... i'm not > > any thing... the source is in me... whatever that is... > > > > i don't exist in time & space... i don't know what i am... nobody > > knows... it's unfathomable... mysterioso > > > > i understand what u r saying, tho... u still think u r in the body- > > mind.... this will hang u up... just meditate... sit in half lotus > > position or whatever style u do & remember that anything u can > > perceive is not u... keep doing that until u get down to your self > > only... it's a trip, man... keep doing it... it gets to be more & > > more comfortable... it's actually easy to do because it is your > > natural state, any way... you've just been conditioned since u were > a > > child to think otherwise... > > > > eventually u see u r nothing but pure spirit or pure consciousness > or > > whatever u wanna call it... it really aint anything.. it's exactly > > what u r... whatever that is... a body-mind is attached to u... > until > > u realize the body-mind is in u & not the other way around, u will > be > > successively re-born into a continuum of body-minds until u > learn... > > that's what we r all here for... to learn... to understand > > > > yours > > > > danananda > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > You are the Source. :-) > > > > > > Yes, I have read " I am That " . I can't say that I found something > in > > > it against my logic. Still, I am still experienceing myself as a > > body > > > separate from the world and with a mind separate from other > people. > > > > > > But I also know that somehow I am the Source, because without > that > > > Source what would I be? And nothing in this world is really > > separate. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " <danananda2004> wrote: > it's not even an experience... it's what makes experience possible... > just do like i said in my last email & u will understand... actually, > everything i said before is the same thing satguru sri nisargadatta > maharaj said to do... any thing u can perceive is not u... so... just > keep tracing it back until u find your self... & there u r... u were > there all the time... u just kept mistaking your reflection in the > mirror for reality... nothing reflected in the mind is reality... > only u r real... just remember: nothing u perceive is u... it's fun > to do, too... it's good & it's good 4 u... > > > > yours > > danananda > > p.s. understand this: > > " The seeker is he who is in search of himself. > > " Give up all questions except one: `Who am I?' After all, the only > fact you are sure of is that you are. The `I am' is certain. The `I > am this' is not. Struggle to find out what you are in reality. > > " To know what you are, you must first investigate and know what you > are not. > > " Discover all that you are not -- body, feelings thoughts, time, > space, this or that -- nothing, concrete or abstract, which you > perceive can be you. The very act of perceiving shows that you are > not what you perceive. > > " The clearer you understand on the level of mind you can be described > in negative terms only, the quicker will you come to the end of your > search and realise that you are the limitless being. " > > Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj > > (this is from the book " I Am That " ; it's on the page just before the > beginning of chapter one) Thanks danananda, I will practice this a bit. /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > I sounds like you really do experience yourself as awareness. I > want > > to experience that too! (me feeling like an envious child) :-) > > > > /AL > > > > > Nisargadatta , " danananda2004 " > > <danananda2004> wrote: > > > really, i aint even the source... i'm beyond the source... i'm > not > > > any thing... the source is in me... whatever that is... > > > > > > i don't exist in time & space... i don't know what i am... nobody > > > knows... it's unfathomable... mysterioso > > > > > > i understand what u r saying, tho... u still think u r in the > body- > > > mind.... this will hang u up... just meditate... sit in half > lotus > > > position or whatever style u do & remember that anything u can > > > perceive is not u... keep doing that until u get down to your > self > > > only... it's a trip, man... keep doing it... it gets to be more & > > > more comfortable... it's actually easy to do because it is your > > > natural state, any way... you've just been conditioned since u > were > > a > > > child to think otherwise... > > > > > > eventually u see u r nothing but pure spirit or pure > consciousness > > or > > > whatever u wanna call it... it really aint anything.. it's > exactly > > > what u r... whatever that is... a body-mind is attached to u... > > until > > > u realize the body-mind is in u & not the other way around, u > will > > be > > > successively re-born into a continuum of body-minds until u > > learn... > > > that's what we r all here for... to learn... to understand > > > > > > yours > > > > > > danananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > You are the Source. :-) > > > > > > > > Yes, I have read " I am That " . I can't say that I found > something > > in > > > > it against my logic. Still, I am still experienceing myself as > a > > > body > > > > separate from the world and with a mind separate from other > > people. > > > > > > > > But I also know that somehow I am the Source, because without > > that > > > > Source what would I be? And nothing in this world is really > > > separate. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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