Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Through simplicity, purity and sincerity we get closer to whom some people call God and others call Love. http://www.wewalk.net ____________ Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 There is no " you " or " me " who could have qualities - like for example simplicity, purity and sincerity. Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > Through simplicity, purity and sincerity we get closer > to whom some people call God and others call Love. > > http://www.wewalk.net > > > > > > ____________ > Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hi, > There is no " you " or " me " who could have qualities - like for example > simplicity, purity and sincerity> These qualities ( as a ME thinks of them ) can *only* exist TO a 'you' or a ME. Kind Regards, Scott. > > > Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> > wrote: > > > > Through simplicity, purity and sincerity we get closer > > to whom some people call God and others call Love. > > > > http://www.wewalk.net > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ > > Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! > > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > > http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Hi Werner I agree with you with the inexistence of " self " , my buddhist friends call it " anatta " , however I do not agree with the impossibility of bearing and using qualities. Unless otherwise, one live as a vegetable. Do you live a vegetative life? I don't think so. Kind regards Message: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:06:58 -0000 " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr Re: To get closer to Love There is no " you " or " me " who could have qualities - like for example simplicity, purity and sincerity. Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > Through simplicity, purity and sincerity we get closer > to whom some people call God and others call Love. > > http://www.wewalk.net > ____________ Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Dear Cam, J.Krishnamurti once stated: " Conscious virtue is vanity " Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > Hi Werner > > I agree with you with the inexistence of " self " , my > buddhist friends call it " anatta " , however I do not > agree with the impossibility of bearing and using > qualities. Unless otherwise, one live as a vegetable. > Do you live a vegetative life? I don't think so. > > Kind regards > > Message: > Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:06:58 -0000 > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: To get closer to Love > > There is no " you " or " me " who could have qualities - > like for example > simplicity, purity and sincerity. > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , Caminamos > <caminamosnet> > wrote: > > > > Through simplicity, purity and sincerity we get > closer > > to whom some people call God and others call Love. > > > > http://www.wewalk.net > > > > > > > ____________ > Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > Hi Werner > > I agree with you with the inexistence of " self " , my > buddhist friends call it " anatta " , however I do not > agree with the impossibility of bearing and using > qualities. Unless otherwise, one live as a vegetable. > Do you live a vegetative life? I don't think so. > > Kind regards Or another way to say it might be: you will manifest certain qualities whether there's a " you " there or not! Joe > > Message: > Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:06:58 -0000 > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: To get closer to Love > > There is no " you " or " me " who could have qualities - > like for example > simplicity, purity and sincerity. > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , Caminamos > <caminamosnet> > wrote: > > > > Through simplicity, purity and sincerity we get > closer > > to whom some people call God and others call Love. > > > > http://www.wewalk.net > > > > > > > ____________ > Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I was only suggesting cultivating good qualities. But now that you have mentioned this interesting subject, and brought this wise quote of master Krishnamurti, I would say that I don't consider that " concious virtue is vanity " , because if we practice mindfulness we will be able to identify not only our defects but our qualities as well. You will agree with me that, on every field, it is very important to know not only our weak sides, but our strong sides as well. I would say " repetitive and exagerated concious virtue is vanity " , by " repetitive " I understand the following: Two Buddhist monks were walking along a path. They saw a woman trying to cross a river. One monk said, “we must help her to cross the river, otherwise she might fall and drown in the current of these dangerous waters”. Saying so he approached her, offered his help and carried her to the other side. The two monks carried on their journey along the path. Half an hour later the other monk said, “you shouldn't have carried that woman in your arms, it wasn't right”, the other said, “Why do you still carry her?” (I don't know the source of this beautiful zen tale) Message: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:22:24 -0000 " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr Re: To get closer to Love Dear Cam, J.Krishnamurti once statetd: " Conscious virtue is vanity " Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > Hi Werner > > I agree with you with the inexistence of " self " , my > buddhist friends call it " anatta " , however I do not > agree with the impossibility of bearing and using > qualities. Unless otherwise, one live as a vegetable. > Do you live a vegetative life? I don't think so. > > Kind regards > > Message: > Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:06:58 -0000 > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: To get closer to Love > > There is no " you " or " me " who could have qualities - > like for example > simplicity, purity and sincerity. > > Werner > ____________ Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Dear Cam, What is the motivation to cultivate so called " good " qualities ? Is it because they are more respectable than so called " bad " qualities ? How can you know what are " good " or " bad " qualities, where is you reference to those, who has told you those ? And who is the cultivator of " good " qualities ? Isn't it the same structure which also contains the " bad " qualities ? The idea of self- cultivation has it's base in the belief that there exists an agent, an entitiy in us which knows and can act, which has free will, free decision and free choice, right ? Does it really exist ? Isn't it better instead of practicing the cultivation of some obscure " good " qualities someone told you they exist, to learn to accept oneself ? Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > I was only suggesting cultivating good qualities. > > But now that you have mentioned this interesting > subject, and brought this wise quote of master > Krishnamurti, I would say that I don't consider that > " concious virtue is vanity " , because if we practice > mindfulness we will be able to identify not only our > defects but our qualities as well. You will agree with > me that, on every field, it is very important to know > not only our weak sides, but our strong sides as well. > > I would say " repetitive and exagerated concious virtue > is vanity " , by " repetitive " I understand the > following: > > Two Buddhist monks were walking along a path. They saw > a woman trying to cross a river. One monk said, " we > must help her to cross the river, otherwise she might > fall and drown in the current of these dangerous > waters " . Saying so he approached her, offered his help > and carried her to the other side. The two monks > carried on their journey along the path. Half an hour > later the other monk said, " you shouldn't have carried > that woman in your arms, it wasn't right " , the other > said, " Why do you still carry her? " > > (I don't know the source of this beautiful zen tale) > > Message: > Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:22:24 -0000 > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: To get closer to Love > > Dear Cam, > > J.Krishnamurti once statetd: " Conscious virtue is > vanity " > > Werner > > Nisargadatta , Caminamos > <caminamosnet> > wrote: > > > > Hi Werner > > > > I agree with you with the inexistence of " self " , my > > buddhist friends call it " anatta " , however I do not > > agree with the impossibility of bearing and using > > qualities. Unless otherwise, one live as a > vegetable. > > Do you live a vegetative life? I don't think so. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Message: > > Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:06:58 -0000 > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > Re: To get closer to Love > > > > There is no " you " or " me " who could have qualities - > > like for example > > simplicity, purity and sincerity. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > ____________ > Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Suffering is a constant in our personal world. Nobody can deny the existence of suffering and, as the world is a reflection of ourselves, we can easily confirm it in the caothic situation this planet lives nowadays. The end of suffering is possible, and the path that brings this end has a lot to do with the cultivation of our good qualities. This is the reason why it is so important to cultivate a steady and still mind, and to develop good qualities. If one person does the opposite, stressing his mind and cultivating negative qualities, it will increase his suffering, and accordingly the suffering of the world. To accept oneself is more related to accept our essential nature and act accordingly, that letting the grass grow without control. Message: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:12:25 -0000 " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr Re: To get closer to Love Dear Cam, What is the motivation to cultivate so called " good " qualities ? Is it because they are more respectable than so called " bad " qualities ? How can you know what are " good " or " bad " qualities, where is you reference to those, who has told you those ? And who is the cultivator of " good " qualities ? Isn't it the same structure which also contains the " bad " qualities ? The idea of self- cultivation has it's base in the belief that there exists an agent, an entitiy in us which knows and can act, which has free will, free decision and free choice, right ? Does ist really exist ? Isn't is better instead of practicing the cultivation of some obscure " good " qualities someone told you they exist, to learn to accept oneself ? Werner ____________ Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Dear Cam, It seems to me that your basic view of a human being is that it is born as an animal (which implies that an animanl is some dangerous beast) and that this animal only through cultivation will become a real human being. And that my dear is the attitude of a neurotic Christian and this is a severe cause of suffering which only will end when you let grow again the grass. Therefore I think also that you believe in sin and free will and that you don't trust in life, right ? I would be pleased if all these are just my prejudices and that I am absolute wrong putting you in that neurotic box. Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > Suffering is a constant in our personal world. Nobody > can deny the existence of suffering and, as the world > is a reflection of ourselves, we can easily confirm it > in the caothic situation this planet lives nowadays. > > The end of suffering is possible, and the path that > brings this end has a lot to do with the cultivation > of our good qualities. This is the reason why it is so > important to cultivate a steady and still mind, and to > develop good qualities. > > If one person does the opposite, stressing his mind > and cultivating negative qualities, it will increase > his suffering, and accordingly the suffering of the > world. > > To accept oneself is more related to accept our > essential nature and act accordingly, that letting the > grass grow without control. > > > Message: > Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:12:25 -0000 > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: To get closer to Love > > Dear Cam, > > What is the motivation to cultivate so called " good " > qualities ? Is > it because they are more respectable than so called > " bad " qualities ? > How can you know what are " good " or " bad " qualities, > where is you > reference to those, who has told you those ? > > And who is the cultivator of " good " qualities ? Isn't > it the same > structure which also contains the " bad " qualities ? > The idea of self- > cultivation has it's base in the belief that there > exists an agent, > an entitiy in us which knows and can act, which has > free will, free > decision and free choice, right ? Does ist really > exist ? > > Isn't is better instead of practicing the cultivation > of some > obscure " good " qualities someone told you they exist, > to learn to > accept oneself ? > > Werner > ____________ > Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Hi Werner I do not embrace any particular religion. The only dangerous beast I might think of is a suffering mind. I don't believe in sins, I believe in causes and effects. The truth is very simple and basic. Message: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:21:20 -0000 " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr Re: To get closer to Love Dear Cam, It seems to me that your basic view of a human being is that it is born as an animal (which implies that an animanl is some dangerous beast) and that this animal only through cultivation will become a real human being. And that my dear is the attitude of a neurotic Christian and this is a severe cause of suffering which only will end when you let grow again the grass. Therefore I think also that you believe in sin and free will and that you don't trust in life, right ? Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > > Suffering is a constant in our personal world. Nobody > can deny the existence of suffering and, as the world > is a reflection of ourselves, we can easily confirm it > in the caothic situation this planet lives nowadays. > > The end of suffering is possible, and the path that > brings this end has a lot to do with the cultivation > of our good qualities. This is the reason why it is so > important to cultivate a steady and still mind, and to > develop good qualities. > > If one person does the opposite, stressing his mind > and cultivating negative qualities, it will increase > his suffering, and accordingly the suffering of the > world. > > To accept oneself is more related to accept our > essential nature and act accordingly, that letting the > grass grow without control. > > > Message: > Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:12:25 -0000 > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: To get closer to Love > > Dear Cam, > > What is the motivation to cultivate so called " good " > qualities ? Is > it because they are more respectable than so called > " bad " qualities ? > How can you know what are " good " or " bad " qualities, > where is you > reference to those, who has told you those ? > > And who is the cultivator of " good " qualities ? Isn't > it the same > structure which also contains the " bad " qualities ? > The idea of self- > cultivation has it's base in the belief that there > exists an agent, > an entitiy in us which knows and can act, which has > free will, free > decision and free choice, right ? Does ist really > exist ? > > Isn't is better instead of practicing the cultivation > of some > obscure " good " qualities someone told you they exist, > to learn to > accept oneself ? > > Werner > > > > > > ____________ Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Dear Cam, Thanks for your answer and for making clear that I was wrong with my ideas about your background - thanks for your patience. Forgive me but I am still wondering why do you think that one can cultivate qualities which will end suffering. You see, it is so obvious that this structure which is causing suffering is the same which wants to end suffering. Werner Nisargadatta , Caminamos <caminamosnet> wrote: > Hi Werner > > I do not embrace any particular religion. > > The only dangerous beast I might think of is a > suffering mind. > > I don't believe in sins, I believe in causes and > effects. > > The truth is very simple and basic. > > Message: > Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:21:20 -0000 > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: To get closer to Love > > Dear Cam, > > It seems to me that your basic view of a human being > is that it is > born as an animal (which implies that an animanl is > some dangerous > beast) and that this animal only through cultivation > will become a > real human being. And that my dear is the attitude of > a neurotic > Christian and this is a severe cause of suffering > which only will end > when you let grow again the grass. > > Therefore I think also that you believe in sin and > free will and that > you don't trust in life, right ? > > Werner > > Nisargadatta , Caminamos > <caminamosnet> > wrote: > > > > Suffering is a constant in our personal world. > Nobody > > can deny the existence of suffering and, as the > world > > is a reflection of ourselves, we can easily confirm > it > > in the caothic situation this planet lives nowadays. > > > > The end of suffering is possible, and the path that > > brings this end has a lot to do with the cultivation > > of our good qualities. This is the reason why it is > so > > important to cultivate a steady and still mind, and > to > > develop good qualities. > > > > If one person does the opposite, stressing his mind > > and cultivating negative qualities, it will increase > > his suffering, and accordingly the suffering of the > > world. > > > > To accept oneself is more related to accept our > > essential nature and act accordingly, that letting > the > > grass grow without control. > > > > > > Message: > > Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:12:25 -0000 > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > Re: To get closer to Love > > > > Dear Cam, > > > > What is the motivation to cultivate so called " good " > > qualities ? Is > > it because they are more respectable than so called > > " bad " qualities ? > > How can you know what are " good " or " bad " qualities, > > where is you > > reference to those, who has told you those ? > > > > And who is the cultivator of " good " qualities ? > Isn't > > it the same > > structure which also contains the " bad " qualities ? > > The idea of self- > > cultivation has it's base in the belief that there > > exists an agent, > > an entitiy in us which knows and can act, which has > > free will, free > > decision and free choice, right ? Does ist really > > exist ? > > > > Isn't is better instead of practicing the > cultivation > > of some > > obscure " good " qualities someone told you they > exist, > > to learn to > > accept oneself ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ > Renovamos el Correo : ¡100 MB GRATIS! > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > http://correo..es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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