Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 What is your Self? The answer is that your Self is the Source of all that you experience. The Source itself is changeless. You as you really are is a changeless state. The intellect is not changeless nor is the body. Pure awareness is changeless. You are that pure awareness. I know, this sounds like a second-hand spiritual information from the 90:th, but rest assured that whatever measurable " object " appearing in your way is not you. The changing objects of this world, be it money, thoughts or feelings, are passing clouds and nothing more than that. Happiness, true happiness cannot be found in objects, because separate objects are illusions (yes, even money is an illusion). Deep, radical happiness can only be found in the changeless Source that you are. You, yourself is changeless. Your REAL existence is changeless. Don't for a second believe that the passing show is what you are. What changes is there for you to enjoy, not for you to identify yourself with! :-) I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Anders, You wrote: > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > My thought is, does Anders experience the Self or is he again confusing the world of thought with reality ? Anders, your god is the intellect. Do you know the word " mind fucking " ? It means instead of living life we are thinking life. It is kind of intellectual masturbation. Don't misunderstand me, I have no aversions against masturbation, but it is not the real. Have you read what Pete (cerosoul) wrote about the " memes " ? If not, please do it. Anders, It is time now for you to merry and to have children ) Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > What is your Self? The answer is that your Self is the Source of all > that you experience. The Source itself is changeless. You as you > really are is a changeless state. The intellect is not changeless nor > is the body. Pure awareness is changeless. You are that pure > awareness. I know, this sounds like a second-hand spiritual > information from the 90:th, but rest assured that whatever > measurable " object " appearing in your way is not you. The changing > objects of this world, be it money, thoughts or feelings, are passing > clouds and nothing more than that. Happiness, true happiness cannot > be found in objects, because separate objects are illusions (yes, > even money is an illusion). Deep, radical happiness can only be found > in the changeless Source that you are. You, yourself is changeless. > Your REAL existence is changeless. Don't for a second believe that > the passing show is what you are. What changes is there for you to > enjoy, not for you to identify yourself with! :-) > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > /AL This is duality, AL. You have a something which is aware of other things. You take it for granted that there is a something which is aware of teh passing show and then you say 'I am that.' If that feels good, then cool. But it seems to me it's an area to look into -- is there really a kind-of background awareness which you are positing? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > You wrote: > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > My thought is, does Anders experience the Self or is he again > confusing the world of thought with reality ? > > Anders, your god is the intellect. Do you know the word " mind > fucking " ? It means instead of living life we are thinking life. It > is kind of intellectual masturbation. Don't misunderstand me, I have > no aversions against masturbation, but it is not the real. > > Have you read what Pete (cerosoul) wrote about the " memes " ? If not, > please do it. > > Anders, It is time now for you to merry and to have children ) > > Werner I looked a bit at the definitions of memes. The intellect is trying to find causes by looking at effects. This is a shallow level of understanding - an understanding of thoughts. Thoughts are always about something else, so they are second-hand objects, and memes are no exception. There is no such thing as intellectual masturbation. All of the intellect is thought-masturbation. The intellect thinks: " I have a relation with my husband/wife " , but what is really happening is that the intellect has a relation with its own thoughts about the husband/wife. The intellect is incapable of direct relationships. The intellect is always only in love with the thoughts about a person, not the person him- or herself. The intellect is only in love with itself, but it thinks it is external persons and things it is in love with, but the intellect is only capable of seeing its own internal thoughts so all of the intellect is a form of masturbation. The intellect is very much the same as the ego; a thought in relation to other thoughts. A girl says: " I am so in love with my boyfriend " , but what she is in love with is really her own ideas and thoughts about the boyfriend, not the boyfriend himself. This is intellectual love. This is thought- masturbation. " Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things that thought has brought about psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and intelligence. " -- J. Krishnamurti A total negation is a negation of all thoughts. The concept of 'memes' is itself a 'meme'. And the concepts go around, and around, and around,... So, you should notice that the idea about 'memes' is itself thought-masturbation. /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > What is your Self? The answer is that your Self is the Source of > all > > that you experience. The Source itself is changeless. You as you > > really are is a changeless state. The intellect is not changeless > nor > > is the body. Pure awareness is changeless. You are that pure > > awareness. I know, this sounds like a second-hand spiritual > > information from the 90:th, but rest assured that whatever > > measurable " object " appearing in your way is not you. The changing > > objects of this world, be it money, thoughts or feelings, are > passing > > clouds and nothing more than that. Happiness, true happiness cannot > > be found in objects, because separate objects are illusions (yes, > > even money is an illusion). Deep, radical happiness can only be > found > > in the changeless Source that you are. You, yourself is changeless. > > Your REAL existence is changeless. Don't for a second believe that > > the passing show is what you are. What changes is there for you to > > enjoy, not for you to identify yourself with! :-) > > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > /AL > > This is duality, AL. You have a something which is aware of other > things. > > You take it for granted that there is a something which is aware of > teh passing show and then you say 'I am that.' If that feels good, > then cool. But it seems to me it's an area to look into -- is there > really a kind-of background awareness which you are positing? > > Joe When you look at something then there is an image in you mind. The image itself is not self-aware. The picture in your mind is not observing itself. The eye cannot see itself. It is awareness which is aware of the picture. In the same way, thoughts are being observed by awareness. Thoughts are not self-aware themselves. This duality between the pure observer and the observed must exist, or there would be no experience at all. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Dear Anders, What I wrote to you wasn't meant very serious, I just was tickling you a bit. In reality I feel a lot of sympathy for you. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Anders, > > > > You wrote: > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > > > > My thought is, does Anders experience the Self or is he again > > confusing the world of thought with reality ? > > > > Anders, your god is the intellect. Do you know the word " mind > > fucking " ? It means instead of living life we are thinking life. It > > is kind of intellectual masturbation. Don't misunderstand me, I have > > no aversions against masturbation, but it is not the real. > > > > Have you read what Pete (cerosoul) wrote about the " memes " ? If not, > > please do it. > > > > Anders, It is time now for you to merry and to have children ) > > > > Werner > > I looked a bit at the definitions of memes. The intellect is trying > to find causes by looking at effects. This is a shallow level of > understanding - an understanding of thoughts. Thoughts are always > about something else, so they are second-hand objects, and memes are > no exception. > > There is no such thing as intellectual masturbation. All of the > intellect is thought-masturbation. The intellect thinks: " I have a > relation with my husband/wife " , but what is really happening is that > the intellect has a relation with its own thoughts about the > husband/wife. The intellect is incapable of direct relationships. The > intellect is always only in love with the thoughts about a person, > not the person him- or herself. The intellect is only in love with > itself, but it thinks it is external persons and things it is in love > with, but the intellect is only capable of seeing its own internal > thoughts so all of the intellect is a form of masturbation. The > intellect is very much the same as the ego; a thought in relation to > other thoughts. > > A girl says: " I am so in love with my boyfriend " , but what she is in > love with is really her own ideas and thoughts about the boyfriend, > not the boyfriend himself. This is intellectual love. This is thought- > masturbation. > > " Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is > negation of all those things that thought has brought about > psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and > intelligence. " -- J. Krishnamurti > > A total negation is a negation of all thoughts. The concept > of 'memes' is itself a 'meme'. And the concepts go around, and > around, and around,... So, you should notice that the idea > about 'memes' is itself thought-masturbation. > > /AL > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > What is your Self? The answer is that your Self is the Source of > > all > > > that you experience. The Source itself is changeless. You as you > > > really are is a changeless state. The intellect is not changeless > > nor > > > is the body. Pure awareness is changeless. You are that pure > > > awareness. I know, this sounds like a second-hand spiritual > > > information from the 90:th, but rest assured that whatever > > > measurable " object " appearing in your way is not you. The > changing > > > objects of this world, be it money, thoughts or feelings, are > > passing > > > clouds and nothing more than that. Happiness, true happiness > cannot > > > be found in objects, because separate objects are illusions (yes, > > > even money is an illusion). Deep, radical happiness can only be > > found > > > in the changeless Source that you are. You, yourself is > changeless. > > > Your REAL existence is changeless. Don't for a second believe > that > > > the passing show is what you are. What changes is there for you > to > > > enjoy, not for you to identify yourself with! :-) > > > > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is no > > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Dear Anders, > > What I wrote to you wasn't meant very serious, I just was tickling > you a bit. In reality I feel a lot of sympathy for you. > > Werner Ok, but realize that the sympathy you feel is caused by your thoughts about me, so what you really are doing is feeling sympathy for your own thoughts. ;-) /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > > > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is > no > > > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > > > > > > > My thought is, does Anders experience the Self or is he again > > > confusing the world of thought with reality ? > > > > > > Anders, your god is the intellect. Do you know the word " mind > > > fucking " ? It means instead of living life we are thinking life. > It > > > is kind of intellectual masturbation. Don't misunderstand me, I > have > > > no aversions against masturbation, but it is not the real. > > > > > > Have you read what Pete (cerosoul) wrote about the " memes " ? If > not, > > > please do it. > > > > > > Anders, It is time now for you to merry and to have children ) > > > > > > Werner > > > > I looked a bit at the definitions of memes. The intellect is trying > > to find causes by looking at effects. This is a shallow level of > > understanding - an understanding of thoughts. Thoughts are always > > about something else, so they are second-hand objects, and memes > are > > no exception. > > > > There is no such thing as intellectual masturbation. All of the > > intellect is thought-masturbation. The intellect thinks: " I have a > > relation with my husband/wife " , but what is really happening is > that > > the intellect has a relation with its own thoughts about the > > husband/wife. The intellect is incapable of direct relationships. > The > > intellect is always only in love with the thoughts about a person, > > not the person him- or herself. The intellect is only in love with > > itself, but it thinks it is external persons and things it is in > love > > with, but the intellect is only capable of seeing its own internal > > thoughts so all of the intellect is a form of masturbation. The > > intellect is very much the same as the ego; a thought in relation > to > > other thoughts. > > > > A girl says: " I am so in love with my boyfriend " , but what she is > in > > love with is really her own ideas and thoughts about the boyfriend, > > not the boyfriend himself. This is intellectual love. This is > thought- > > masturbation. > > > > " Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is > > negation of all those things that thought has brought about > > psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and > > intelligence. " -- J. Krishnamurti > > > > A total negation is a negation of all thoughts. The concept > > of 'memes' is itself a 'meme'. And the concepts go around, and > > around, and around,... So, you should notice that the idea > > about 'memes' is itself thought-masturbation. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > What is your Self? The answer is that your Self is the Source > of > > > all > > > > that you experience. The Source itself is changeless. You as > you > > > > really are is a changeless state. The intellect is not > changeless > > > nor > > > > is the body. Pure awareness is changeless. You are that pure > > > > awareness. I know, this sounds like a second-hand spiritual > > > > information from the 90:th, but rest assured that whatever > > > > measurable " object " appearing in your way is not you. The > > changing > > > > objects of this world, be it money, thoughts or feelings, are > > > passing > > > > clouds and nothing more than that. Happiness, true happiness > > cannot > > > > be found in objects, because separate objects are illusions > (yes, > > > > even money is an illusion). Deep, radical happiness can only be > > > found > > > > in the changeless Source that you are. You, yourself is > > changeless. > > > > Your REAL existence is changeless. Don't for a second believe > > that > > > > the passing show is what you are. What changes is there for you > > to > > > > enjoy, not for you to identify yourself with! :-) > > > > > > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? Can > > > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there is > no > > > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 LOL .... Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Dear Anders, > > > > What I wrote to you wasn't meant very serious, I just was tickling > > you a bit. In reality I feel a lot of sympathy for you. > > > > Werner > > Ok, but realize that the sympathy you feel is caused by your thoughts > about me, so what you really are doing is feeling sympathy for your > own thoughts. ;-) > > /AL > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > > > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? > Can > > > > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there > is > > no > > > > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > My thought is, does Anders experience the Self or is he again > > > > confusing the world of thought with reality ? > > > > > > > > Anders, your god is the intellect. Do you know the word " mind > > > > fucking " ? It means instead of living life we are thinking > life. > > It > > > > is kind of intellectual masturbation. Don't misunderstand me, I > > have > > > > no aversions against masturbation, but it is not the real. > > > > > > > > Have you read what Pete (cerosoul) wrote about the " memes " ? If > > not, > > > > please do it. > > > > > > > > Anders, It is time now for you to merry and to have children ) > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > I looked a bit at the definitions of memes. The intellect is > trying > > > to find causes by looking at effects. This is a shallow level of > > > understanding - an understanding of thoughts. Thoughts are always > > > about something else, so they are second-hand objects, and memes > > are > > > no exception. > > > > > > There is no such thing as intellectual masturbation. All of the > > > intellect is thought-masturbation. The intellect thinks: " I have > a > > > relation with my husband/wife " , but what is really happening is > > that > > > the intellect has a relation with its own thoughts about the > > > husband/wife. The intellect is incapable of direct relationships. > > The > > > intellect is always only in love with the thoughts about a > person, > > > not the person him- or herself. The intellect is only in love > with > > > itself, but it thinks it is external persons and things it is in > > love > > > with, but the intellect is only capable of seeing its own > internal > > > thoughts so all of the intellect is a form of masturbation. The > > > intellect is very much the same as the ego; a thought in relation > > to > > > other thoughts. > > > > > > A girl says: " I am so in love with my boyfriend " , but what she is > > in > > > love with is really her own ideas and thoughts about the > boyfriend, > > > not the boyfriend himself. This is intellectual love. This is > > thought- > > > masturbation. > > > > > > " Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is > > > negation of all those things that thought has brought about > > > psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and > > > intelligence. " -- J. Krishnamurti > > > > > > A total negation is a negation of all thoughts. The concept > > > of 'memes' is itself a 'meme'. And the concepts go around, and > > > around, and around,... So, you should notice that the idea > > > about 'memes' is itself thought-masturbation. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > What is your Self? The answer is that your Self is the Source > > of > > > > all > > > > > that you experience. The Source itself is changeless. You as > > you > > > > > really are is a changeless state. The intellect is not > > changeless > > > > nor > > > > > is the body. Pure awareness is changeless. You are that pure > > > > > awareness. I know, this sounds like a second-hand spiritual > > > > > information from the 90:th, but rest assured that whatever > > > > > measurable " object " appearing in your way is not you. The > > > changing > > > > > objects of this world, be it money, thoughts or feelings, are > > > > passing > > > > > clouds and nothing more than that. Happiness, true happiness > > > cannot > > > > > be found in objects, because separate objects are illusions > > (yes, > > > > > even money is an illusion). Deep, radical happiness can only > be > > > > found > > > > > in the changeless Source that you are. You, yourself is > > > changeless. > > > > > Your REAL existence is changeless. Don't for a second believe > > > that > > > > > the passing show is what you are. What changes is there for > you > > > to > > > > > enjoy, not for you to identify yourself with! :-) > > > > > > > > > > I can hear your thoughts; " What a load of crap! That which is > > > > > changing is also me. " But tell me, what is aware of change? > Can > > > > > change be aware of itself? How can there be change if there > is > > no > > > > > relation to that which does not change? Tell me that. > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.