Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Watch yourself closely and you will see that whatever be the content of consciousness, the witnessing of it does not depend on the content. Awareness is itself and does not change with the event. The event may be pleasant or unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is the same. Take note of the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its natural self-identity, without the least trace of self-consciousness, and go to the root of it and you will soon realize that awareness is your true nature, and nothing you may be aware of, you can call your own. When the content is viewed without likes and dislikes, the consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a difference between awareness as reflected in consciousness and pure awareness beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense " I am aware " is the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of reality. Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is a reflection of the sun, no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness reflected in consciousness as the witness and pure awareness there is a gap, which the mind cannot cross. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj Courtesy of Ken Thanks Ken ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Nice, nice, Here one clearly can see how Niz too is using " awareness " as kind of personalized consciousness - awareness reflected as the witness in consciousness. This " awareness " or the observer is the illusion of separation. Awareness is that illusion. And what is that " pure awareness " ? It is NOTHINGNESS ! Maharaj the witty trickster. Werner Nisargadatta , eilean low <eileanlow> wrote: > Watch yourself closely and you will see that whatever be the content of consciousness, the witnessing of it does not depend on the content. Awareness is itself and does not change with the event. The event may be pleasant or unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is the same. Take note of the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its natural self-identity, without the least trace of self-consciousness, and go to the root of it and you will soon realize that awareness is your true nature, and nothing you may be aware of, you can call your own. When the content is viewed without likes and dislikes, the consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a difference between awareness as reflected in consciousness and pure awareness beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense " I am aware " is the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of reality. Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is a reflection of the sun, no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness > reflected in consciousness as the witness and pure awareness there is a gap, which the mind cannot cross. > Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj > > > > Courtesy of Ken > > Thanks Ken > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Nice, nice, > > Here one clearly can see how Niz too is using " awareness " as kind of > personalized consciousness - awareness reflected as the witness in > consciousness. This " awareness " or the observer is the illusion of > separation. Awareness is that illusion. > > And what is that " pure awareness " ? It is NOTHINGNESS ! > > Maharaj the witty trickster. > > Werner Osho describes this in a similar way. There are three states of being. The first is the ordinary thinking state. The second state is what he calls meditation in which there is awareness but no thoughts. And the third state is when there is no subject and no object at all because they create each other. This third state is also called samadhi or shunyata. It is a state of no-content and no- consciousness, but it is not an unconscious state. According to Osho: First get rid of the content - you become half empty. Then get rid of consciousness - you become completely empty. And this full emptiness is the most beautiful that can happen, and the greatest blessing. Hmm... How can something empty be beatiful? Osho says that the word 'empty' has its root in 'free' and 'not occupied'. And he says that insight is a state of non-thinking. Other 'Sages' say that it is probably not possible to have no thinking going on. I am confused. /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , eilean low <eileanlow> > wrote: > > Watch yourself closely and you will see that whatever be the > content of consciousness, the witnessing of it does not depend on the > content. Awareness is itself and does not change with the event. The > event may be pleasant or unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is > the same. Take note of the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its > natural self-identity, without the least trace of self- consciousness, > and go to the root of it and you will soon realize that awareness is > your true nature, and nothing you may be aware of, you can call your > own. When the content is viewed without likes and dislikes, the > consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a difference > between awareness as reflected in consciousness and pure awareness > beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense " I am aware " is > the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of reality. > Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is a reflection of the sun, > no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness > > reflected in consciousness as the witness and pure awareness there > is a gap, which the mind cannot cross. > > Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj > > > > > > > > Courtesy of Ken > > > > Thanks Ken > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express > yourself > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Dear Anders, Ramana Mahrshi too answered to a questioner if his ego is gone, that it is not gone but most of the time silent because there is no use for it and sometimes it appears and thoughts too. What you see as your confusion is that your mind is kind of a spiritual hamster and already has so much material, some of which are contradicting each other. That is very normal and no problem. In the course of time ( yes, in the coruse of time ! ) you will throw away more and more and your mind gets more and more simple. " Ingenuity is to forget the unimportant " - Albert Einstein. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Nice, nice, > > > > Here one clearly can see how Niz too is using " awareness " as kind > of > > personalized consciousness - awareness reflected as the witness in > > consciousness. This " awareness " or the observer is the illusion of > > separation. Awareness is that illusion. > > > > And what is that " pure awareness " ? It is NOTHINGNESS ! > > > > Maharaj the witty trickster. > > > > Werner > > Osho describes this in a similar way. There are three states of > being. The first is the ordinary thinking state. The second state is > what he calls meditation in which there is awareness but no thoughts. > And the third state is when there is no subject and no object at all > because they create each other. This third state is also called > samadhi or shunyata. It is a state of no-content and no- > consciousness, but it is not an unconscious state. > > According to Osho: First get rid of the content - you become half > empty. Then get rid of consciousness - you become completely empty. > And this full emptiness is the most beautiful that can happen, and > the greatest blessing. > > Hmm... How can something empty be beatiful? Osho says that the > word 'empty' has its root in 'free' and 'not occupied'. And he says > that insight is a state of non-thinking. Other 'Sages' say that it is > probably not possible to have no thinking going on. I am confused. > > /AL > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , eilean low <eileanlow> > > wrote: > > > Watch yourself closely and you will see that whatever be the > > content of consciousness, the witnessing of it does not depend on > the > > content. Awareness is itself and does not change with the event. > The > > event may be pleasant or unpleasant, minor or important, awareness > is > > the same. Take note of the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its > > natural self-identity, without the least trace of self- > consciousness, > > and go to the root of it and you will soon realize that awareness > is > > your true nature, and nothing you may be aware of, you can call > your > > own. When the content is viewed without likes and dislikes, the > > consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a difference > > between awareness as reflected in consciousness and pure awareness > > beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense " I am aware " > is > > the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of reality. > > Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is a reflection of the > sun, > > no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness > > > reflected in consciousness as the witness and pure awareness > there > > is a gap, which the mind cannot cross. > > > Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj > > > > > > > > > > > > Courtesy of Ken > > > > > > Thanks Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express > > yourself > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Dear Anders, > > Ramana Mahrshi too answered to a questioner if his ego is gone, that > it is not gone but most of the time silent because there is no use > for it and sometimes it appears and thoughts too. > > What you see as your confusion is that your mind is kind of a > spiritual hamster and already has so much material, some of which are > contradicting each other. That is very normal and no problem. > > In the course of time ( yes, in the coruse of time ! ) you will throw > away more and more and your mind gets more and more simple. > > " Ingenuity is to forget the unimportant " - Albert Einstein. > > Werner Thanks Werner, Yes, I guess my thinking mind has to relax a bit, to stop running around in its hamster wheel all the time. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Nice, nice, > > > > > > Here one clearly can see how Niz too is using " awareness " as kind > > of > > > personalized consciousness - awareness reflected as the witness > in > > > consciousness. This " awareness " or the observer is the illusion > of > > > separation. Awareness is that illusion. > > > > > > And what is that " pure awareness " ? It is NOTHINGNESS ! > > > > > > Maharaj the witty trickster. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Osho describes this in a similar way. There are three states of > > being. The first is the ordinary thinking state. The second state > is > > what he calls meditation in which there is awareness but no > thoughts. > > And the third state is when there is no subject and no object at > all > > because they create each other. This third state is also called > > samadhi or shunyata. It is a state of no-content and no- > > consciousness, but it is not an unconscious state. > > > > According to Osho: First get rid of the content - you become half > > empty. Then get rid of consciousness - you become completely empty. > > And this full emptiness is the most beautiful that can happen, and > > the greatest blessing. > > > > Hmm... How can something empty be beatiful? Osho says that the > > word 'empty' has its root in 'free' and 'not occupied'. And he says > > that insight is a state of non-thinking. Other 'Sages' say that it > is > > probably not possible to have no thinking going on. I am confused. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , eilean low <eileanlow> > > > wrote: > > > > Watch yourself closely and you will see that whatever be the > > > content of consciousness, the witnessing of it does not depend on > > the > > > content. Awareness is itself and does not change with the event. > > The > > > event may be pleasant or unpleasant, minor or important, > awareness > > is > > > the same. Take note of the peculiar nature of pure awareness, its > > > natural self-identity, without the least trace of self- > > consciousness, > > > and go to the root of it and you will soon realize that awareness > > is > > > your true nature, and nothing you may be aware of, you can call > > your > > > own. When the content is viewed without likes and dislikes, the > > > consciousness of it is awareness. But still there is a difference > > > between awareness as reflected in consciousness and pure > awareness > > > beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the sense " I am aware " > > is > > > the witness, while pure awareness is the essence of reality. > > > Reflection of the sun in a drop of water is a reflection of the > > sun, > > > no doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness > > > > reflected in consciousness as the witness and pure awareness > > there > > > is a gap, which the mind cannot cross. > > > > Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Courtesy of Ken > > > > > > > > Thanks Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express > > > yourself > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Nice, nice, > > Here one clearly can see how Niz too is using " awareness " as kind of > personalized consciousness - awareness reflected as the witness in > consciousness. This " awareness " or the observer is the illusion of > separation. Awareness is that illusion. > > And what is that " pure awareness " ? It is NOTHINGNESS ! > > Maharaj the witty trickster. > > Werner My understanding of it is that no one experiences pure awareness, not even Niz. I don't know why the hell he talks about it. It just ignites the seeking juices. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Dear Anders, > > Ramana Mahrshi too answered to a questioner if his ego is gone, that > it is not gone but most of the time silent because there is no use > for it and sometimes it appears and thoughts too. > > What you see as your confusion is that your mind is kind of a > spiritual hamster and already has so much material, some of which are > contradicting each other. That is very normal and no problem. > > In the course of time ( yes, in the coruse of time ! ) you will throw > away more and more and your mind gets more and more simple. > > " Ingenuity is to forget the unimportant " - Albert Einstein. > > Werner Good point, Werner. Another problem is the belief that the concepts espoused by sages are believed to be truth statements. Due to that belief, we try to make them fit into a coherent picture. This can only lead to endless confusion. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Dear Joe, Let me reply to both of your postings. You wrote: " My understanding of it is that no one experiences pure awareness, not even Niz. I don't know why the hell he talks about it. It just ignites the seeking juices. " I see the same and therefore I called Niz a trickster. The second you wrote: > Another problem is the belief that the concepts espoused by sages are > believed to be truth statements. Due to that belief, we try to make > them fit into a coherent picture. This can only lead to endless > confusion. > So true, at least one can take it in account for some time and then throw into the trahs bin. Werner Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Dear Anders, > > > > Ramana Mahrshi too answered to a questioner if his ego is gone, that > > it is not gone but most of the time silent because there is no use > > for it and sometimes it appears and thoughts too. > > > > What you see as your confusion is that your mind is kind of a > > spiritual hamster and already has so much material, some of which > are > > contradicting each other. That is very normal and no problem. > > > > In the course of time ( yes, in the coruse of time ! ) you will > throw > > away more and more and your mind gets more and more simple. > > > > " Ingenuity is to forget the unimportant " - Albert Einstein. > > > > Werner > > > Good point, Werner. > > Another problem is the belief that the concepts espoused by sages are > believed to be truth statements. Due to that belief, we try to make > them fit into a coherent picture. This can only lead to endless > confusion. > > Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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