Guest guest Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts or emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal dialogue going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are being churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in past or future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost always in past or future. I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have described it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary mind is correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Hi, A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm and come to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting and Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and a state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . This is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. regards M anders_lindman <anders_lindman wrote: The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts or emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal dialogue going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are being churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in past or future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost always in past or future. I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have described it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary mind is correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. /AL ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> wrote: > Hi, > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm and come to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting and Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and a state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . This is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > regards > M A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I mean by no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When we observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' making the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not notice that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in front of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal clear, unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we have lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We were born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. Dirtier and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. /AL > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts or > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal dialogue > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are being > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in past or > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost always in > past or future. > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have described > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary mind is > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > /AL > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Hi Anders, Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did you prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post all your ideas here ? It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very attractive to you ... ) Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> wrote: > > Hi, > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm and come > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting and > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and a > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . This > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > > regards > > M > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I mean by > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When we > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' making > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not notice > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in front > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal clear, > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we have > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We were > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. Dirtier > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > /AL > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts or > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal dialogue > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are being > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in past or > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost always > in > > past or future. > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > described > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary mind is > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Hi Anders, > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did you > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post all > your ideas here ? > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > attractive to you ... ) > > Werner What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm and > come > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting and > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and a > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . > This > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > > > regards > > > M > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I mean by > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When we > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' > making > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not notice > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in > front > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal clear, > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we have > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We > were > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. > Dirtier > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > /AL > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts or > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > dialogue > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are being > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in past or > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost > always > > in > > > past or future. > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > > described > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary mind > is > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi Anders, We want the same. But that cloud won't listen to us ) If you allow me a tip: When you watch your thoughts you will realize that most of them are inner dialogs with someone else. Now, do this for one day: Whenever you see such a dialog going on or starting then instantly stop it, let it go. Do this as consequent as possible. This will bring you in a " spezial " state. Do not intellectualise about it - do it. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Hi Anders, > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did you > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post all > > your ideas here ? > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > Werner > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > /AL > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm and > > come > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting > and > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and a > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . > > This > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > > > > regards > > > > M > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I mean > by > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When we > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' > > making > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not notice > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in > > front > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal > clear, > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we have > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We > > were > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. > > Dirtier > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts or > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > > dialogue > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are being > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in past > or > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost > > always > > > in > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > > > described > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary mind > > is > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > Groups: > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hello, > When you watch your thoughts you will realize that most of them are > inner dialogs with someone else> What absolute rubbish! How are 'you' watching your thoughts? Now, do this for one day: Whenever > you see such a dialog going on or starting then instantly stop it, > let it go. Do this as consequent as possible. This will bring you in > a " spezial " state. ?????? Kind Regards, Scott. > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Hi Anders, > > > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did > you > > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post all > > > your ideas here ? > > > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > > > Werner > > > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future > > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm > and > > > come > > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting > > and > > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and > a > > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the > > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . > > > This > > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > > > > > regards > > > > > M > > > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I > mean > > by > > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When > we > > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' > > > making > > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not > notice > > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in > > > front > > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal > > clear, > > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we > have > > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We > > > were > > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. > > > Dirtier > > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts > or > > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > > > dialogue > > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are > being > > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in > past > > or > > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost > > > always > > > > in > > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > > > > described > > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary > mind > > > is > > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change > your > > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > > Groups: > > > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Hi Anders, > > We want the same. But that cloud won't listen to us ) > > If you allow me a tip: > > When you watch your thoughts you will realize that most of them are > inner dialogs with someone else. Now, do this for one day: Whenever > you see such a dialog going on or starting then instantly stop it, > let it go. Do this as consequent as possible. This will bring you in > a " spezial " state. > > Do not intellectualise about it - do it. > > Werner Thanks. I will do it. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Hi Anders, > > > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did > you > > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post all > > > your ideas here ? > > > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > > > Werner > > > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future > > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm > and > > > come > > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting > > and > > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and > a > > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the > > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . > > > This > > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > > > > > regards > > > > > M > > > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I > mean > > by > > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When > we > > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' > > > making > > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not > notice > > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in > > > front > > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal > > clear, > > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we > have > > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We > > > were > > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. > > > Dirtier > > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts > or > > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > > > dialogue > > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are > being > > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in > past > > or > > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost > > > always > > > > in > > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > > > > described > > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary > mind > > > is > > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change > your > > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > > Groups: > > > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > When you watch your thoughts you will realize that most of them are > > inner dialogs with someone else> > > > What absolute rubbish! > > How are 'you' watching your thoughts? One can train oneself to observe thoughts. This is no different than the process of " I must not forget to buy milk today " . Here we have an " I " and something this " I " must not forget. Similarly, we can develop an " I must learn to observe my thoughts and even this very thought " , and so on. Eventually it becomes more and more clear that this observer, this " I " is itself also thought/feeling. /AL > > > Now, do this for one day: Whenever > > you see such a dialog going on or starting then instantly stop it, > > let it go. Do this as consequent as possible. This will bring you > in > > a " spezial " state. > > > ?????? > > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Anders, > > > > > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did > > you > > > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post > all > > > > your ideas here ? > > > > > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > > > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future > > > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm > > and > > > > come > > > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , > resting > > > and > > > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley > and > > a > > > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop > the > > > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the > play . > > > > This > > > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get > there. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > M > > > > > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I > > mean > > > by > > > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When > > we > > > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by > a 'me' > > > > making > > > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not > > notice > > > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window > in > > > > front > > > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal > > > clear, > > > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we > > have > > > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. > We > > > > were > > > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. > > > > Dirtier > > > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts > > or > > > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts > and > > > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > > > > dialogue > > > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are > > being > > > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in > > past > > > or > > > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost > > > > always > > > > > in > > > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > > > > > described > > > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary > > mind > > > > is > > > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change > > your > > > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > > > Groups: > > > > > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for > the > > > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Hi Anders, > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did you > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post all > > your ideas here ? > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > Werner > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > /AL The constant 'cloud of me' is your compulsion to explain yourself to yourself. Stop being the narrator of your own existence. It is NOt a SPORT EVENT. It doesn't require a play by play commentary. Best wishes, Pete > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm and > > come > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting > and > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and a > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . > > This > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > > > > regards > > > > M > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I mean > by > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When we > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' > > making > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not notice > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in > > front > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal > clear, > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we have > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We > > were > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. > > Dirtier > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts or > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > > dialogue > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are being > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in past > or > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost > > always > > > in > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > > > described > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary mind > > is > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > Groups: > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Hi Anders, > > > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or did > you > > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post all > > > your ideas here ? > > > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > > > Werner > > > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future > > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > > > /AL > > The constant 'cloud of me' is your compulsion to explain yourself to > yourself. Stop being the narrator of your own existence. It is NOt > a SPORT EVENT. It doesn't require a play by play commentary. > > Best wishes, > > Pete That's right but the commentary is there. Maybe an Understanding of this commentary will make it eventually go away. /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be calm > and > > > come > > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , resting > > and > > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley and > a > > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop the > > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the play . > > > This > > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get there. > > > > > regards > > > > > M > > > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I > mean > > by > > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. When > we > > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by a 'me' > > > making > > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not > notice > > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window in > > > front > > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a crystal > > clear, > > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we > have > > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call the 'me'. We > > > were > > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to speak. > > > Dirtier > > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no thoughts > or > > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts and > > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > > > dialogue > > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are > being > > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in > past > > or > > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and almost > > > always > > > > in > > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I have > > > > described > > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the ordinary > mind > > > is > > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change > your > > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > > Groups: > > > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hi again, > One can train oneself to observe thoughts. This is no different than > the process of " I must not forget to buy milk today " > Yes. We learn to watch our *daily* thoughts and observe them objectively. Here we have > an " I " and something this " I " must not forget. Similarly, we can > develop an " I must learn to observe my thoughts and even this very > thought " , and so on. Eventually it becomes more and more clear that > this observer, this " I " is itself also thought/feeling> Mindfulness is more about observing your day to day thoughts *all the time* so that you are thinking with awareness all the time. You can then see errant or 'bad' thoughts as they arise and stop their effects before they carry over into action and behaviour as they would do in a 'normal' persons state of mind. The emotions and thoughts that arise can be let go of with unconcern. After this is done for a while those same 'bad' thoughts that used to occurr no longer happen. Kind Regards, Scott. > > /AL > > > > > > > Now, do this for one day: Whenever > > > you see such a dialog going on or starting then instantly stop > it, > > > let it go. Do this as consequent as possible. This will bring you > > in > > > a " spezial " state. > > > > > > ?????? > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Anders, > > > > > > > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or > did > > > you > > > > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to post > > all > > > > > your ideas here ? > > > > > > > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not very > > > > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my future > > > > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Masti <mastteddy> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be > calm > > > and > > > > > come > > > > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , > > resting > > > > and > > > > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind alley > > and > > > a > > > > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one Mind.Stop > > the > > > > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the > > play . > > > > > This > > > > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get > > there. > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > M > > > > > > > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what I > > > mean > > > > by > > > > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. > When > > > we > > > > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by > > a 'me' > > > > > making > > > > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally not > > > notice > > > > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy window > > in > > > > > front > > > > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a > crystal > > > > clear, > > > > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that we > > > have > > > > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call > the 'me'. > > We > > > > > were > > > > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to > speak. > > > > > Dirtier > > > > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no > thoughts > > > or > > > > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which thoughts > > and > > > > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant internal > > > > > dialogue > > > > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly are > > > being > > > > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom in > > > past > > > > or > > > > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and > almost > > > > > always > > > > > > in > > > > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I > have > > > > > > described > > > > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the > ordinary > > > mind > > > > > is > > > > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change > > > your > > > > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > > > > Groups: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for > > the > > > > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > One can train oneself to observe thoughts. This is no different > than > > the process of " I must not forget to buy milk today " > > > Yes. We learn to watch our *daily* thoughts and observe them > objectively. > > > Here we have > > an " I " and something this " I " must not forget. Similarly, we can > > develop an " I must learn to observe my thoughts and even this very > > thought " , and so on. Eventually it becomes more and more clear that > > this observer, this " I " is itself also thought/feeling> > > > Mindfulness is more about observing your day to day thoughts *all the > time* so that you are thinking with awareness all the time. You can > then see errant or 'bad' thoughts as they arise and stop their > effects before they carry over into action and behaviour as they > would do in a 'normal' persons state of mind. The emotions and > thoughts that arise can be let go of with unconcern. > After this is done for a while those same 'bad' thoughts that used to > occurr no longer happen. In my case this mindfulness has not come easy and has taken several years of extraordinary emotional suffering, and I am still not mindful in such way that I can be unconcerned when 'bad' thoughts and emotions happen. I am still very much stuck in my cage called the future 'me'. /AL > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Now, do this for one day: Whenever > > > > you see such a dialog going on or starting then instantly stop > > it, > > > > let it go. Do this as consequent as possible. This will bring > you > > > in > > > > a " spezial " state. > > > > > > > > > ?????? > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > Has your mind already found its natural ability to stop or > > did > > > > you > > > > > > prefer to wait a bit with this because you still have to > post > > > all > > > > > > your ideas here ? > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that your mind's natural ability to stop is not > very > > > > > > attractive to you ... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > What I want to stop is the constant cloud of 'me' and my > future > > > > > hanging around me all day. I hope it will dissolve someday. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Masti > <mastteddy> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > A Mind that has found its natural ability to stop, be > > calm > > > > and > > > > > > come > > > > > > > to rest is a mind ready for action. Stopping Calming , > > > resting > > > > > and > > > > > > > Playing. Instead of No mind which sounds like a blind > alley > > > and > > > > a > > > > > > > state of death..maybe one can strive to Be of one > Mind.Stop > > > the > > > > > > > struggle, calm the emotions, rest in yourself, enjoy the > > > play . > > > > > > This > > > > > > > is the goal . At the same time this is the means to get > > > there. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > M > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A mind that has found its natural ability to stop is what > I > > > > mean > > > > > by > > > > > > > no-mind. Also by no-mind I mean a mind free of the 'me'. > > When > > > > we > > > > > > > observe things with our senses our vision is clouded by > > > a 'me' > > > > > > making > > > > > > > the perception of everything dim and hazy. We normally > not > > > > notice > > > > > > > that the 'me' is a very, very dirty, narrow and hazy > window > > > in > > > > > > front > > > > > > > of our senses. It is only when we get a glimpse of a > > crystal > > > > > clear, > > > > > > > unclogged and free perception we notice shocklingly that > we > > > > have > > > > > > > lived all our life behind a dirty shield/cage call > > the 'me'. > > > We > > > > > > were > > > > > > > born, raised and educated with 'me' glasses on, so to > > speak. > > > > > > Dirtier > > > > > > > and more smudged glasses than that is harder to find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > The no-mind is probably a state where there are no > > thoughts > > > > or > > > > > > > > emotions, but instead a clear silence from which > thoughts > > > and > > > > > > > > feelings arise. The ordinary mind has a constant > internal > > > > > > dialogue > > > > > > > > going on where thoughts steeped in emotions endlessly > are > > > > being > > > > > > > > churned. The no-mind is at peace in the now and seldom > in > > > > past > > > > > or > > > > > > > > future. The ordinary mind is restless in the now and > > almost > > > > > > always > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > past or future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a state like the no-mind as I > > have > > > > > > > described > > > > > > > > it here, but I do know that my description of the > > ordinary > > > > mind > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > correct, at least when it comes to my own mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > > change > > > > your > > > > > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit > My > > > > > Groups: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for > > > the > > > > > > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hi again, > In my case this mindfulness has not come easy and has taken several > years of extraordinary emotional suffering,> Mindfulness should reveal the precise nature of that suffering and certainly not cause it. Do you sit down and simply watch your thoughts everyday for a certain amount of time and then extend this to *all the time* in your day to day life? and I am still not > mindful in such way that I can be unconcerned when 'bad' thoughts and > emotions happen> Mindfulness should not involve any further deliberation with the thoughts arising, by looking at them objectively just as they are, they fall away and drop off by themselves. You can let go of errant thoughts instead of feeding them more power so that they become behaviour and actions. Mindfulness is the complete opposite of reactionary, instinctual based behaviour and thoughts that 'run most people'. You can then see how you are and how you act very accurately and you can also see how others are and act. I am still very much stuck in my cage called the > future 'me'. Or to put it another way 'I am still *thinking too much*!' Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > In my case this mindfulness has not come easy and has taken several > > years of extraordinary emotional suffering,> > > Mindfulness should reveal the precise nature of that suffering and > certainly not cause it. > > Do you sit down and simply watch your thoughts everyday for a certain > amount of time and then extend this to *all the time* in your day to > day life? Nowadays I almost always observe what is going on as thoughts/emotions in me. This observation is almost like an automatic process. > > > and I am still not > > mindful in such way that I can be unconcerned when 'bad' thoughts > and > > emotions happen> > > > Mindfulness should not involve any further deliberation with the > thoughts arising, by looking at them objectively just as they are, > they fall away and drop off by themselves. You can let go of errant > thoughts instead of feeding them more power so that they become > behaviour and actions. Mindfulness is the complete opposite of > reactionary, instinctual based behaviour and thoughts that 'run most > people'. > > You can then see how you are and how you act very accurately and you > can also see how others are and act. I know that if I focus less on 'me' and my problems, fears and desires, then I can observe more of what is going on all the time. What I mean by 'I' here is where my attention goes to. My attention can go to dwelling on my personal future, or my attention can go to what is happening now. > > > I am still very much stuck in my cage called the > > future 'me'. > > Or to put it another way 'I am still *thinking too much*!' Definitely /AL > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi again, > > Mindfulness should reveal the precise nature of that suffering and > > certainly not cause it. > > > > Do you sit down and simply watch your thoughts everyday for a > certain > > amount of time and then extend this to *all the time* in your day > to > > day life? > > Nowadays I almost always observe what is going on as > thoughts/emotions in me. This observation is almost like an automatic > process. You should be aware of *specific* thoughts as they arise, and if they are detrimental or lead to detrimental actions or behaviour. If they are transparently clear then they don't get the chance of turning into anything damaging, unwanted or the chance to continue a chain of bad thinking. .. > > > > You can then see how you are and how you act very accurately and > you > > can also see how others are and act. > > I know that if I focus less on 'me' and my problems, fears and > desires, then I can observe more of what is going on all the time> Maybe it is about paying more attention to specific thoughts as to *why* they manifest into fear and desires. And you can only do this through *thorough* introspection. > What I mean by 'I' here is where my attention goes to. My attention > can go to dwelling on my personal future, or my attention can go to > what is happening now. Yes, and just like you yourself have said previously it is better to keep the mind focused in the 'here and now' Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > Hi again, > > > > Mindfulness should reveal the precise nature of that suffering > and > > > certainly not cause it. > > > > > > Do you sit down and simply watch your thoughts everyday for a > > certain > > > amount of time and then extend this to *all the time* in your day > > to > > > day life? > > > > Nowadays I almost always observe what is going on as > > thoughts/emotions in me. This observation is almost like an > automatic > > process. > > You should be aware of *specific* thoughts as they arise, and if they > are detrimental or lead to detrimental actions or behaviour. > > If they are transparently clear then they don't get the chance of > turning into anything damaging, unwanted or the chance to continue a > chain of bad thinking. In my case the 'quality' of a thought is very easy to detect. Every thought I have about doing something in the future comes with a negative emotional response. I believe this Life's way to to say: wrong way, try again. :-) And this is all Life playing a game with itself. When a though come about me actually being able to follow the thought in the present moment, and not in some future, then there is no negative emotion there, then it is just a " of course this has to be done now, very good of you my thought-machine to be in synch for a change. :-) > > > > . > > > > > > You can then see how you are and how you act very accurately and > > you > > > can also see how others are and act. > > > > I know that if I focus less on 'me' and my problems, fears and > > desires, then I can observe more of what is going on all the time> > > > Maybe it is about paying more attention to specific thoughts as to > *why* they manifest into fear and desires. And you can only do this > through *thorough* introspection. I guess fear and desires are needed for some time in order for one to develop a sense of self. But then nature comes along and upgrades itself: " Hey you, it's time for you to grow up. You can't live emotionally and mentally at the same level you were at the age of 10 " > > > > > What I mean by 'I' here is where my attention goes to. My attention > > can go to dwelling on my personal future, or my attention can go to > > what is happening now. > > Yes, and just like you yourself have said previously it is better to > keep the mind focused in the 'here and now' In order for there to be effortless being here and now, the folly of creating a private future inner world must be seen thoroughly through. /AL > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi again, > In my case the 'quality' of a thought is very easy to detect. Every > thought I have about doing something in the future comes with a > negative emotional response. Are you sure that only thoughts having to do with the future are ones which could be detrimental or negative? > I guess fear and desires are needed for some time in order for one to > develop a sense of self. But then nature comes along and upgrades > itself: " Hey you, it's time for you to grow up. You can't live > emotionally and mentally at the same level you were at the age of 10 " > Fears and desires are *natural* products ( of a mind misunderstood or incompletely understood, or a mind functioning on an instinctual or action / reaction basis ) > In order for there to be effortless being here and now, the folly of > creating a private future inner world must be seen thoroughly through.> It only takes practicing of mindfulness which anyone is capable of achieving. See 'Meditation in Plain English' for excellent material on this. The information in this book was written by a Theravadan Buddhist but it can be applied to any 'path'. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > In my case the 'quality' of a thought is very easy to detect. Every > > thought I have about doing something in the future comes with a > > negative emotional response. > > Are you sure that only thoughts having to do with the future are ones > which could be detrimental or negative? Thoughts about the future are extrapolation from the past. The mind normally known only the past. In that way, all thoughts are 'about' the past. > > > > I guess fear and desires are needed for some time in order for one > to > > develop a sense of self. But then nature comes along and upgrades > > itself: " Hey you, it's time for you to grow up. You can't live > > emotionally and mentally at the same level you were at the age of > 10 " > > > > Fears and desires are *natural* products ( of a mind misunderstood or > incompletely understood, or a mind functioning on an instinctual or > action / reaction basis ) Yes, it seems that fears and desires are mechanical programmes (genes + conditioning). > > > > In order for there to be effortless being here and now, the folly > of > > creating a private future inner world must be seen thoroughly > through.> > > > It only takes practicing of mindfulness which anyone is capable of > achieving. > > See 'Meditation in Plain English' for excellent material on this. > > The information in this book was written by a Theravadan Buddhist but > it can be applied to any 'path'. Do you mean 'Zen Meditation in Plain English' by John Daishin Buksbazen? /AL > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Hi again, > > Are you sure that only thoughts having to do with the future are > ones > > which could be detrimental or negative? > > Thoughts about the future are extrapolation from the past. The mind > normally known only the past. In that way, all thoughts are 'about' > the past. Are you sure that only thoughts having to do with the future and past are the only detrimental or negative ones? Mindfulness means observing *daily* day to day *normal* thoughts that arise, in the normal day to day existence. Not missing a beat, even when washing the dishes etc > > Fears and desires are *natural* products ( of a mind misunderstood > or > > incompletely understood, or a mind functioning on an instinctual or > > action / reaction basis ) > > Yes, it seems that fears and desires are mechanical programmes (genes > + conditioning). Yes, they are natural. And we must learn to recognize them *nakedly*. > Do you mean 'Zen Meditation in Plain English' by John Daishin > Buksbazen? No, Meditation in Plain English by HENEPOLA GUNARATANA MAHATHERA. Actually, I forget that it is available on-line free. Check out this link, or better yet buy the book and go through it slowly yourself; http://www.realization.org/page/namedoc0/mipe/mipe_0.htm Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > Are you sure that only thoughts having to do with the future are > > ones > > > which could be detrimental or negative? > > > > Thoughts about the future are extrapolation from the past. The mind > > normally known only the past. In that way, all thoughts are 'about' > > the past. > > Are you sure that only thoughts having to do with the future and past > are the only detrimental or negative ones? > > Mindfulness means observing *daily* day to day *normal* thoughts that > arise, in the normal day to day existence. Not missing a beat, even > when washing the dishes etc When I observe my thoughts I see they are virtually always from the past. So, even while washing the dishes, my thoughts spring from past memories, knowledge and experience. > > > > > Fears and desires are *natural* products ( of a mind > misunderstood > > or > > > incompletely understood, or a mind functioning on an instinctual > or > > > action / reaction basis ) > > > > Yes, it seems that fears and desires are mechanical programmes > (genes > > + conditioning). > > > Yes, they are natural. > And we must learn to recognize them *nakedly*. > > > Do you mean 'Zen Meditation in Plain English' by John Daishin > > Buksbazen? > > > No, Meditation in Plain English by HENEPOLA GUNARATANA MAHATHERA. > > Actually, I forget that it is available on-line free. > > Check out this link, or better yet buy the book and go through it > slowly yourself; > > http://www.realization.org/page/namedoc0/mipe/mipe_0.htm > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Super! I will take a look at it. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Hi again, > > Mindfulness means observing *daily* day to day *normal* thoughts > that > > arise, in the normal day to day existence. Not missing a beat, even > > when washing the dishes etc > When I observe my thoughts I see they are virtually always from the > past. So, even while washing the dishes, my thoughts spring from past > memories, knowledge and experience. When washing the dishes you should only be thinking about washing the dishes! Remember the Zen saying, 'When hungry eat.... and someone asks but isn't that is what everyone does, and the Zen master says 'No, when people eat they don't just eat' This is also mindfulness. Mindfulness should make clear what affects thoughts have on your life, you should be able to notice *specific* thoughts and their nature *as they arise* knowing what they are about, not merely *that they arise* and not trying to explain *how* they arise. What you say above is not mindfulness it is a description of how you think thoughts are occuring to you. Mindfulness is not something you have to 'think' about when you do it. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > Mindfulness means observing *daily* day to day *normal* thoughts > > that > > > arise, in the normal day to day existence. Not missing a beat, > even > > > when washing the dishes etc > > > When I observe my thoughts I see they are virtually always from the > > past. So, even while washing the dishes, my thoughts spring from > past > > memories, knowledge and experience. > > > When washing the dishes you should only be thinking about washing the > dishes! > > Remember the Zen saying, 'When hungry eat.... and someone asks but > isn't that is what everyone does, and the Zen master says 'No, when > people eat they don't just eat' > > This is also mindfulness. > > Mindfulness should make clear what affects thoughts have on your > life, you should be able to notice *specific* thoughts and their > nature *as they arise* knowing what they are about, not merely *that > they arise* and not trying to explain *how* they arise. > > What you say above is not mindfulness it is a description of how you > think thoughts are occuring to you. > > Mindfulness is not something you have to 'think' about when you do it. > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Maybe true mindfulness is when there is no 'me' there at all trying to change things, i.e. the mind is complete and undivided. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Hi again > Maybe true mindfulness is when there is no 'me' there at all trying > to change things, i.e. the mind is complete and undivided. Mindfulness is about watching thoughts and thoughts cannot arise without a ME. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again > > > Maybe true mindfulness is when there is no 'me' there at all trying > > to change things, i.e. the mind is complete and undivided. > > > Mindfulness is about watching thoughts and thoughts cannot arise > without a ME. > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. I believe the will or choice to watch thoughts is a happening in thought itself, and cannot be brought about by any personal effort; even when it seems to have been brought about by personal effort, the effort itself is a spontaneous happening in what is. Sure, we can use our will to become more mindful, and we should! At least that is what I think at the moment. But in reality I think there is no personal will or choice at all. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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