Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Anders, The main obstcale is: " once " . You wrote: Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... I must say: Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, would ... Werner _lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > Hi again, > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting statement. He > > > said that when people become more present, when they reach a > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, then they can > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things like *when* > > people reach a new stage of development or consciousness that they > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, empty mind > is > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a sought after > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those who have > > reached a certain state. > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading because people > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that the > capacity > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few who > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the thinking > > stops.> > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve a state of > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught in the level > > of > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The choice has to > > come > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will only fight > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping thinking is about > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the *need* for > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes easier to make > the > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the thing you are > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to understanding for > some > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or maybe he used > > the > > > word worship to point to a state of immense gratitude, a state > for > > > which there are no words, but some word or combination of words > had > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the God-force, > and > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God which is a > form > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making a confusing > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and around, and > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something new could > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a vertical > > dimension > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, transcend) the > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past and future. > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as to why he > > said it. > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta has said about > > prana also. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Scott. > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to freedom are > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight of nowness > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of one's life > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana which has > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing fire. > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, that liquid > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > You wrote: > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > I must say: > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, would ... > > Werner Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last sees itself, recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, we have to ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I call my body and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through identification with something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks at time with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth to Lila, the fleeting game of life? /AL > > > _lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting statement. > He > > > > said that when people become more present, when they reach a > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, then they > can > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things like *when* > > > people reach a new stage of development or consciousness that > they > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, empty > mind > > is > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a sought after > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those who have > > > reached a certain state. > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading because people > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that the > > capacity > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few who > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the thinking > > > stops.> > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve a state of > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught in the > level > > > of > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The choice has > to > > > come > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will only > fight > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping thinking is > about > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the *need* for > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes easier to make > > the > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the thing you > are > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to understanding for > > some > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or maybe he > used > > > the > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense gratitude, a state > > for > > > > which there are no words, but some word or combination of words > > had > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the God- force, > > and > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God which is a > > form > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making a > confusing > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and around, > and > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something new could > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a vertical > > > dimension > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, transcend) the > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past and future. > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as to why he > > > said it. > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta has said > about > > > prana also. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Scott. > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to freedom are > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight of nowness > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of one's life > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana which has > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing fire. > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, that > liquid > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Anders, Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a hole and live there for the rest of your life. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Anders, > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > You wrote: > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > I must say: > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, would ... > > > > Werner > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last sees itself, > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, we have to > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I call my body > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through identification with > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks at time > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth to Lila, > the fleeting game of life? > > /AL > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting > statement. > > He > > > > > said that when people become more present, when they reach a > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, then they > > can > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things like > *when* > > > > people reach a new stage of development or consciousness that > > they > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, empty > > mind > > > is > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a sought > after > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those who > have > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading because > people > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that the > > > capacity > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few who > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the thinking > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve a state > of > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught in the > > level > > > > of > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The choice has > > to > > > > come > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will only > > fight > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping thinking is > > about > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the *need* for > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes easier to > make > > > the > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the thing you > > are > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to understanding > for > > > some > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or maybe he > > used > > > > the > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense gratitude, a > state > > > for > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or combination of > words > > > had > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the God- > force, > > > and > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God which is > a > > > form > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making a > > confusing > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and around, > > and > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something new > could > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a vertical > > > > dimension > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, transcend) > the > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past and > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as to why > he > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta has said > > about > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to freedom are > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight of > nowness > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of one's > life > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana which has > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing fire. > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, that > > liquid > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a hole and > live there for the rest of your life. > > Werner Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind does - it lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > You wrote: > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > I must say: > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, > would ... > > > > > > Werner > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last sees > itself, > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, we have > to > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I call my > body > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through identification > with > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks at time > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth to > Lila, > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting > > statement. > > > He > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when they reach > a > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, then > they > > > can > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things like > > *when* > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or consciousness that > > > they > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, empty > > > mind > > > > is > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a sought > > after > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those who > > have > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading because > > people > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that the > > > > capacity > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few who > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the > thinking > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve a > state > > of > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught in the > > > level > > > > > of > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The choice > has > > > to > > > > > come > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will only > > > fight > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping thinking is > > > about > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the *need* > for > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes easier to > > make > > > > the > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the thing > you > > > are > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to understanding > > for > > > > some > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or maybe he > > > used > > > > > the > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense gratitude, a > > state > > > > for > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or combination of > > words > > > > had > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the God- > > force, > > > > and > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God which > is > > a > > > > form > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making a > > > confusing > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and > around, > > > and > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something new > > could > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a vertical > > > > > dimension > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, transcend) > > the > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past and > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as to > why > > he > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta has said > > > about > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to freedom > are > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight of > > nowness > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of one's > > life > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana which > has > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing fire. > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, that > > > liquid > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Anders, Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for one day all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in your posts, they would have been different. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Anders, > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a hole and > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > Werner > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind does - it > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > /AL > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, > > would ... > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last sees > > itself, > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, we > have > > to > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I call my > > body > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through identification > > with > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks at > time > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth to > > Lila, > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting > > > statement. > > > > He > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when they > reach > > a > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, then > > they > > > > can > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things like > > > *when* > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or consciousness > that > > > > they > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, > empty > > > > mind > > > > > is > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a sought > > > after > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those who > > > have > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading because > > > people > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that the > > > > > capacity > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few who > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the > > thinking > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve a > > state > > > of > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught in > the > > > > level > > > > > > of > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The choice > > has > > > > to > > > > > > come > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will > only > > > > fight > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping thinking > is > > > > about > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the *need* > > for > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes easier > to > > > make > > > > > the > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the thing > > you > > > > are > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > understanding > > > for > > > > > some > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or maybe > he > > > > used > > > > > > the > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense gratitude, a > > > state > > > > > for > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or combination of > > > words > > > > > had > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the God- > > > force, > > > > > and > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God which > > is > > > a > > > > > form > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making a > > > > confusing > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and > > around, > > > > and > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something new > > > could > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a > vertical > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, > transcend) > > > the > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past and > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as to > > why > > > he > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta has > said > > > > about > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to freedom > > are > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight of > > > nowness > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of one's > > > life > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana which > > has > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing > fire. > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, that > > > > liquid > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for one day > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in your posts, > they would have been different. > > Werner P: Is it not interesting that if a person vocalizes that monologe, we view that as a mental disorder, but as long the monologe remains private, we think of it as normal? It might be the norm, but it's not healthy or conducive to enlightenment. Pete > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a hole > and > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind does - it > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last sees > > > itself, > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, we > > have > > > to > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I call my > > > body > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through identification > > > with > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks at > > time > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth to > > > Lila, > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting > > > > statement. > > > > > He > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when they > > reach > > > a > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, then > > > they > > > > > can > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things like > > > > *when* > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or consciousness > > that > > > > > they > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, > > empty > > > > > mind > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a > sought > > > > after > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those > who > > > > have > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading because > > > > people > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that > the > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few > who > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the > > > thinking > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve a > > > state > > > > of > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught in > > the > > > > > level > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The > choice > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will > > only > > > > > fight > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping thinking > > is > > > > > about > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the > *need* > > > for > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes easier > > to > > > > make > > > > > > the > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the > thing > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > > understanding > > > > for > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or > maybe > > he > > > > > used > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense gratitude, > a > > > > state > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or combination > of > > > > words > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the God- > > > > force, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God > which > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making a > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and > > > around, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something > new > > > > could > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a > > vertical > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, > > transcend) > > > > the > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past > and > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as > to > > > why > > > > he > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta has > > said > > > > > about > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to > freedom > > > are > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight of > > > > nowness > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of > one's > > > > life > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana > which > > > has > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing > > fire. > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, > that > > > > > liquid > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for one day > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in your posts, > they would have been different. > > Werner I don't remember that you have asked me this. I will try this when, and if, George W. Bush can stop his inner dialogs for one day. :-) /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a hole > and > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind does - it > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last sees > > > itself, > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, we > > have > > > to > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I call my > > > body > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through identification > > > with > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks at > > time > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth to > > > Lila, > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting > > > > statement. > > > > > He > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when they > > reach > > > a > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, then > > > they > > > > > can > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things like > > > > *when* > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or consciousness > > that > > > > > they > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, > > empty > > > > > mind > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a > sought > > > > after > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those > who > > > > have > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading because > > > > people > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that > the > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few > who > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the > > > thinking > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve a > > > state > > > > of > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught in > > the > > > > > level > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The > choice > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will > > only > > > > > fight > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping thinking > > is > > > > > about > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the > *need* > > > for > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes easier > > to > > > > make > > > > > > the > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the > thing > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > > understanding > > > > for > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or > maybe > > he > > > > > used > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense gratitude, > a > > > > state > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or combination > of > > > > words > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the God- > > > > force, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God > which > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making a > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and > > > around, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something > new > > > > could > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a > > vertical > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, > > transcend) > > > > the > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past > and > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as > to > > > why > > > > he > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta has > > said > > > > > about > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to > freedom > > > are > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight of > > > > nowness > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of > one's > > > > life > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana > which > > > has > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing > > fire. > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, > that > > > > > liquid > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Anders, I don't know what your relationship is with Mr. Bush but I did not address him but you. If you like then read message Nr. 13867 Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Anders, > > > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for one day > > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in your > posts, > > they would have been different. > > > > Werner > > I don't remember that you have asked me this. I will try this when, > and if, George W. Bush can stop his inner dialogs for one day. :-) > > /AL > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a hole > > and > > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind does - > it > > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, could, > > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last sees > > > > itself, > > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, we > > > have > > > > to > > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I call > my > > > > body > > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through > identification > > > > with > > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks at > > > time > > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth > to > > > > Lila, > > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting > > > > > statement. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when they > > > reach > > > > a > > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, > then > > > > they > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things > like > > > > > *when* > > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or > consciousness > > > that > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop thought, > > > empty > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a > > sought > > > > > after > > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by those > > who > > > > > have > > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading > because > > > > > people > > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or that > > the > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select few > > who > > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought the > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can achieve > a > > > > state > > > > > of > > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely caught > in > > > the > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The > > choice > > > > has > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it will > > > only > > > > > > fight > > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping > thinking > > > is > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the > > *need* > > > > for > > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes > easier > > > to > > > > > make > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the > > thing > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > > > understanding > > > > > for > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or > > maybe > > > he > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense > gratitude, > > a > > > > > state > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or > combination > > of > > > > > words > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the > God- > > > > > force, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God > > which > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just making > a > > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, and > > > > around, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that something > > new > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a > > > vertical > > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, > > > transcend) > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about past > > and > > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused as > > to > > > > why > > > > > he > > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta > has > > > said > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to > > freedom > > > > are > > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear insight > of > > > > > nowness > > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of > > one's > > > > > life > > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana > > which > > > > has > > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a blazing > > > fire. > > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of Prana, > > that > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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